Hi All, Sorry for the delay. I've not been kidnapped - yet! been busy with work and household stuff. Well, at least this is getting people talking (as well as patronising me and insulting my sanity, intentions and intelligence) and hopefully thinking about what they would do if /when mandatory vaccination is presented to them. Think there is nothing wrong with forced vaccination? There are obviously a few people who see nothing wrong with forced vaccination. I'd suggest that those people haven't registered that once a government, or worse still a faceless unaccountable international organisation (as it happens one with very "interesting backing" (from people with proven links to eugenics)), has control over the bodies of (otherwise) law abiding individuals, then literally the people are slaves - the property of that government or organisation. That is a horrifying prospect. What I prefer is something called freedom. Nobody has the right to forcibly inject another human being against their will. This is an absolute as far as I am concerned. No if's, no buts. For those who say "oh, but in an emergency….you have to give up your freedom": of course this would only ever happen in an emergency (real or purported)! People have to be told (and believe) that there is an emergency which is the reason for the mandatory vaccination; otherwise a larger number will resist it. If people accept that there is an emergency, then some will accept everybody's rights (not to have their bodies invaded) disappearing, but I don't. There are no if's or but's to such fundamental human rights, in my book. Forced vaccinations have already been used, not just in oppressive regimes (not least nazi Germany), but also in supposedly "free countries" on indigenous and minority races, for the purposes of population control. Think it can't / won't happen? There are obviously also people who acknowledge that forced vaccination would be crossing an important line, but they do not imagine this is possible, or they find it very hard to believe. I hope that these people are proven correct in their skepticism. However, here are some links that you might perhaps find interesting:Read this: http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publicationsandstatistics/Publications/PublicationsPolicyAndGuidance/DH_080734Our pandemic plan. Which keeps referring to IHR’s – International Health Regulations. http://www.who.int/ihr/9789241596664/en/index.htmlhttp://www.who.int/features/qa/39/en/index.htmlhttp://whqlibdoc.who.int/publications/2008/9789241580410_eng.pdfThe UK is a signatory of course. Our own pandemic plan talks about our responsibilities under the IHR's. The IHR's state that the Director General "shall communicate to State Parties the determination and the termination of a public health emergency of international concern, any temporary recommendation, and the modification, extension and termination of such recommendations…". If these don't make it clear to you that member countries all follow the orders of WHO in relation to "public health" then I can't help. I would also say that I am surprised if people cannot see that we have been, in many ways, increasingly subjected to forces greater / higher than our own nation state (European Union, World Bank, World Monetary Fund, World Health Organisation). If people are surprised by the idea that the World Health Organisation could issue instructions to our own government (with our own government willingly taking and following them) then I sort of wonder if we are on the same planet. Is this not the direction we have been so clearly ambling in for decades? As for proof that the WHO is moving in the direction of mandatory vaccinations, they haven’t announced yet that they are “recommending” mandatory vaccinations. However this will give an indication. http://www.naturalnews.com/026723_health_vaccines_immune_system.htmlObviously this will happen incrementally, using the stepping stones approach. Initially it will be in particular countries where there are exceptional “emergencies”. It may also start in certain countries by being mandatory for certain groups (as suggested in the article and other WHO documents) e.g. healthcare workers, key workers, old people, children, those with certain underlying conditions. As time goes on, more and more, and eventually all, of the population will be faced with mandatory vaccinations. Perhaps this sounds familiar: first they came for the… then they came for the… It seems from some of the comments that some people really think the idea of mandatory vaccinations is ludicrous, and question how it could be practically achieved. How near we are to it and yet how blissfully unaware you are. Like I say I hope you are right, but I will to try and answer your rhetorical questions about how a mandatory vaccination programme could , here are some thoughts of mine and questions for you:-Issuing of paperwork which needs to be held as proof of vaccines received (several governments are planning this)-Through the refusal of schools to accept children who cannot show proof of having been vaccinated (this already happens in several first world countries)-Through the issuing of cards or even tags / bracelets (containing rfid tags) confirming vaccination / vaccination history (this is also being looked at)-Through GP's surgerys, possibly in concert with social services where children are involved (who may remove the children on the basis that they are not being cared for). -"Quarantining" individuals who refuse to be vaccinated -Using a masive fear campaign - already very successful -And public on public (sheep against sheep) pressure, which is always a winner. Judging by the responses to the earlier post, this force is very alive and well. If anybody body thinks that any of the above sounds scientifically or practically unrealistic, I'd love to understand what direction you think technology is moving in if it isn't going to allow the easier and simpler tracking monitoring and control of human beings. If you don’t believe that mandatory vaccination can happen, then you can just watch it unfold and wait for the point when you will acknowledge it. You’ll probably then move into the camp of “it’s good. I embrace it. This is an emergency. My government and the vaccine will protect me”. Vaccines are good? There are also people who fundamentally believe in vaccination and trust the pharmaceutical companies, the Department of Health, and World Health Organisation to only promote or force a vaccine that is absolutely necessary, or at least solves problems far bigger than any it causes. Here are some of the issues, in summary, with vaccinations generally, and I know that people will challenge me on each one. If challenged I'll keep providing references / proof as much as I can with the time I have available. This could go on for a long time, but we have to start somewhere. I'll try and respond, but if people challenge ask me for proof of different claims details it is going to become time consuming, but we’ll see how we go. What I say now will probably be more outrageous to people than what is above. Let’s see how long I can bang my head against a brick wall. There are virtually no long term tests on vaccines, particularly the swine flu vaccines that are about to be released. They are being tested in the US at the moment. You know how long people are monitored for side effects? 3 weeks. Why would the government grant Big Pharma indemnity against claims (as they have) for adverse effects? Generally the only version of long term testing is "Post Marketing Surveillance". In other words "put it on the market, and adamantly deny any ill effects suffered by anyone, are anything to do with your vaccine". From what I've read on the subject, the promotion of vaccine, and their approval for use, has been based on an "assumption" that known toxic substances (the fillers, never mind the antigen itself) are safe for individuals, short and long term. If anybody knows different and can tell me about substantial long term safety testing for vaccines I’d be excited to read about it. What the hell happened with mercury (thiomersol)? This incredibly potent toxin was included in virtually all vaccines for about 60 years. It was being INJECTED into people (bypassing most of the bodies methods of rejection) at levels hundreds or thousands of times the maximum limit for oral mercury intake. When there was a massive uproar about it (due to real effects suffered by human beings) here as well, but mostly in the US, it was suddenly removed from nearly all vaccines in the early years of this decade. But there was no acknowledgement that it might have been doing any harm. Why was it removed? OF COURSE it had been doing harm! but there are no studies into the long term effects it has had on peoples health over the decades, nothing to try and see if there is a link between the use of mercury in vaccines (and the other fillers in vaccines) and the rises in autism and Alzheimer’s. Why would there be? Whose interest would it serve? The government don't want to know about it, why would they? Big Pharma doesn't want to know about something that could cause endless legal claims, destroy them and destroy the foundation of the "health system". But where are the answers and explanations on the subject of mercury? If you feel perfectly happy having mercury injected into yourself and your family (heavy metals are good for you!), then you'll be happy, because the new Swine Flu vaccine is likely to contain it apparently. You'll probably be keen to stock up on all the other good stuff in it as well, including aluminum, formaldehyde, MSG, antifreeze, and load of other ingredients from various species that read like a modern day frankenstein shopping list. There are no long term safety tests on the effects of these ingredients. Some of the labels on vaccines actually say "there are no studies to confirm to prove that these ingredients are not carcinogenic". Plus legal immunity. But you are totally confident that those ingredients won’t have any negative effect on your health in the long term? Big Pharma was caught in a memo saying how "viewed in this way, the mercury load seems rather high", and trying to bury the information But mercury isn't the be all and end all - there are many harmful ingredients. To me it just doesn't compute that if you take deadly known toxins and inject them into individuals in a combined cocktail then we are all just guaranteed to be ok because Big Pharma, the government and the WHO tells us so. OK so have been pumped into us in every increasing volumes many decades over the same period that Autism and countless other disorders have been rising, but it is all ok!...even though there haven't been any long term studies on health effects and there aren't going to be. Also there is the very valid and surely well known issue of natural immunity against vaccine induced immunity. Vaccine induced immunity was always promoted as theoretically providing lifelong protection. This was the whole idea of vaccination initially, wasn’t it? It doesn't provide lifelong immunity. Vaccine induced immunity lasts nowhere near as long as natural immunity. In the case of many childhood diseases, all that would happen with one dose of vaccine is that it would push diseases into adolescence or adulthood, when the diseases are much more harmful. Hence, the booster shot. Has anybody noticed how the vaccine schedule has just been increasing and increasing for young children? and adults? When will it stop? Show me a vaccine worth taking. Also, some people have used the good old tired and busted example of Smallpox. How many times…?? the figures show clearly that Smallpox was already in decline before vaccination. During the time when it vaccination was at its height you had huge outbreaks in towns with almost complete vaccination rates, and no outbreaks in towns with hardly any vaccine coverage. Ever heard of the smallpox riots? The British Government itself admitted decades ago that vaccination had played “only a minor role” in the end of smallpox. History has been changed because it is very convenient for you to believe in vaccinations and the smallpox story is the first, so the illusion has to be maintained. Our belief in modern medicine rests on and stems back largely to the supposed success of vaccination in eradicating smallpox. Believe it if you want to. Or you could do some further research on it. For every vaccine there are examples of very poor efficacy, and in most cases, the vaccine causing significant harm (short term). Also, people have mentioned the good ole herd immunity argument. Isn't that only relevant where the goal is to totally eradicate a disease? That is what I understand from what I have read. If that is not the goal then the vaccinated people don't need to worry about those who aren't because they are "protected". Is that what we are trying to do here, eradicate swine flu? but we are told that it may "mutate" (never mind that viruses nearly always mutate into something less harmful)! Are we then trying to eradicate all strains of flu? Wouldn't this be a massive case of chasing our tails? Would this entail vaccine after vaccine, constant emergency and constant vaccine intake? (never mind that swine flu was made in a lab, just like the swine flu from 1976 and the Spanish Flu). There are very legitimate and reasonable concerns that people have about the ingredients in vaccines and their long terms effects on health. It is a good thing, therefore, that human beings are (hopefully) free to not take the vaccine. Virtually every fatality from Swine Flu, it turns out, are those who are immune-compromised, or have other serious complications. The symptoms are indistinguishable from normal seasonal flu. I know people who have been diagnosed with "suspected swine flu" and they have commented on how they don't even as ill as they have previously with "normal flu". Can you imagine how the numbers are going to be fudged during normal flu season. Nobody will have "flu" in Autumn this year. It will be "swine flu" in nearly every case. That’s what I expect. This will provide the justification for more hastily prepared vaccine to be dished out, and more to be ordered. But doesn't seasonal flu kill up to 12,000 people per year in the UK? Lets see if that number drops like a stone while swine flu (hysteria) takes over. I am aware that many of these comments will provoke cries of "prove it", which is fair enough. But obviously there is a limit to the amount of time that I have to keep showing you different pieces of the jigsaw while you scrutinize them individually. The purpose of my post was to bring something (that I believe in and of course you are free not to) to your attention. It may be that you just won't acknowledge an elephant in the room no matter how much of my time I invest in providing more information and evidence. I would ask therefore, if you just care about whether this stuff is true, then Do Your Own Research. I'm happy to point to sources of information but I can't spoon feed unlimited detail as I have a job and a family. The information is out there. If you don't care then it doesn't matter. Go ahead and queue up for your vaccine, then when your health is destroyed (with "Gulf War Syndrom for example) accept it when the government tell you that it wasn't the vaccine and you need yet more and more vaccine to protect you from this and protect you from that. If you think you "would" care but have already decided it isn't a possibility, then you will just have to wait and see things unfold. Everybody has their own unique opinion or take on things of course. I didn’t want to get into discuss all of my views (and the foundations for them) on the subject of vaccinations. I simply wanted to highlight the subject of mandatory vaccination, increase awareness of it as a possibility, and gather support against MANDATORY vaccination. My view is fairly clear and simple on the subject of mandatory vaccination. It is a very big step too far. Obama - a different subject, but not my favourite person in the world as it happens. Lets stick to something vaguely relevant to this post shall we, for now?Paul
Paul Taylor ● 6291d