Forum Topic

World Cup 2026

I hold no truck with the World Cup and fail to understand the media's excitement around it.I have endured 60 years purgatory watching England play through false dawns, Gazza's tears, infuriating red cards, missed penalties, bloody WAGS and to cap it all, the Hand of God.FIFA, avaricious and corrupt are asking spectators exorbitant ticket prices to travel the length and brenth of the Americas and Canada to follow their teams.I would sooner watch 5 days of sedate cricket down at the Oval, or sit through cool Pimms at Royal Ascot than go bankrupt following our dreary footballers.Cry "God for Harry, England, and Saint George".Come on England, bring it home for Winston Churchill, William Shakespeare, Rupert Brooke, William Blake, Queen Vic, Issac Newton, IKB, Princess Diana, Bobby Moore.Howay the lads.

Denis I. Fox ● 33d82 Comments

Football dragged to a new low. Thank God it’s all over!

Steve Taylor ● 9h

I must have misheard about the kit,Denis.I only realised the match was on tv at half time.You are correct,all of that behaviour from them went on.They are a horrible advertisement for sport.

Keith Iddon ● 17h

The Pumas rugby team wore their provocative (Hand of God 1986 football kit) from the first whistle. They surrounded the referee every disputed decision (you just don't do that in rugby) and behaved appallingly throughout the match.As for the football team, they kicked, elbowed  and snarled at every opponent who dared cause trouble to them.Why does a sporting nation blessed with innate skills behave like this?.Answers on a postcard please.

Denis I. Fox ● 18h

Yes therer's always a theme with Argentina...niggling fouls,writhing on the ground when nothing has happened to them,refusing to accept any decision that goes against them and disrupting the opposition at every possible opportunity,whether within the rules or outside of them.Not much different to 1966 really.Theyhave been horrible to watch for most of their games.It was also particularly gratifying to see England win yesterday in the rugby match,after Argentina had changed their kit at half time to the 'Hand of God' kit.They never lose with any graciousness nor win with any magnanimity.They never seem to give an ounce of credit to the opposition.

Keith Iddon ● 20h

Thank god it’s not Argentina.Apparently football is far better these days. Pretty rotten World Cup final.

Simon Hayes ● 20h

It would be retaken until she scored.

Keith Iddon ● 21h

What happens if the goal collapses though?

Simon Hayes ● 23h

You seem very thin skinned Neil. Setting yourself up as the arbiter of all things football related. One suspects you rely on Google rather more than you care to admit. And the aggression came from you first. Maybe you dislike being challengedYou seem fixated by QPR and their financial situation, although one wonders if you ever actually saw that pitch. I doubt it. It was a controversial installation and was ripped out in the end.Top flight teams played 42 league matches every season. To make it easy for you, that’s four more than currently. Add in League Cuo and FA cup matches, with replays and you get a lot more domestic matches before any European competitions. I’ll let you come back with the stats to back up your claim.Can you name the last team to finish fourth in the PL and win the Champions League. Again you can look for that.You know why Villa and Newcastle have to sell players. Or perhaps you don’t. Here’s a clue: PSR.Leicester and Sheffield Wednesday are the latest victims of punitive measures imposed by the football authorities. Points deductions and all the other sanctions, while the likes of Chelsea break the rules with impunity. I bet that £10m fine barely registered. You said in one post:‘ What I have said I you conveniently ignore is there is more money in the sport compared to the 70s & 80s & as a result the money has also spread to the non-superstar players and clubs to improve the quality of football.’That’s not true. There are still poor teams and rotten players, even in the Premier League. Wolves and Burnley last season, Southampton the season before. There’s a long list going back to 1992.I don’t care what you think of me. Your opinion is incorrect and all your posts so far have been based on some warped logic that all the money in the modern game means it’s far better now. Yes, you can’t compare eras but you seem very dismissive of past achievements. Maybe you ought to reflect on yourself for a while.

Simon Hayes ● 23h

I hope Argentina bring on Diana Ross if it goes to penalties.

Keith Iddon ● 23h

Vamos, Espana!Alegrame el dia!

Denis I. Fox ● 1d

Yes, Glenn played a lot of games for QPR, but not many in the top flight, which is what Neil Barton claimed. Joined the R’s from Orient after their run to the FA cup semi finals in 1978.He was a ball playing defender but he wasn’t top quality and I’m not sure why Neil made such big claims about him.

Simon Hayes ● 1d

Getting so involved in discussions about football,which is always about opinions and feelings as much as facts,is a little like 'dancing about architecture'(I can't remember who said that but I think he said it about debating sense of humour).Widen the pitch when attacking and narrow it when defending and you won't go far wrong.

Keith Iddon ● 1d

In the interests of accuracy I must point out that Glenn Roeder didn't "play about 20 games for QPR" he played over 150 games for the mighty Rs including the 1982 cup final against Tottenham , unfortunately he was suspended for the replay otherwise the result may have been different. Neil Barton may have got the vowels in his surname mixed up but he was certainly accurate in his description of him as a ball playing defender as we all saw in witnessing his " Roeder shuffle " when bringing the ball out of defence.

David Burke ● 1d

Don't forget that back in the day, it was only 1 sub; then it became 2. And all teams would have 1 sub as the goalkeeper. Now being 5, that allows for more tactical change. Also, if you have 5 subs, you want 5 fit subs, hence bigger squads. Back in the day, you had reserve matches. Now you have friendlies for those who don't get first-team matches. And you now have under-23 and under-21 development matches. You now have the Premier League 2, which is a league of 29 clubs for under-21s and under-17s.  But overall, back in that time, squads were smaller due to the restriction of 2 subs per match and reserve matches were not every week. I believe I'm correct on the above due to my betting which covers the above matches these days. Even more that has to be factored in

Julian Pavey ● 1d

Ah yes the old if I’m out of my depth I’ll resort to personal jibes. You may want to review the way you address & review people by calling them ignorant & jumping to conclusions. Ever thought to yourself if someone works in a management consultant firm they perhaps potentially may work in certain departments. But just like the good old journalist you claim to be jump on a narrative & start making sweeping generalisations. The spot light of ignorance may have just be shone on you.In your own words my lack of knowledge every time I post. Strong words once again. Apart from my misspelling of Roeder which once again you’ve cherry picked, what evidence do you have of this apart from your own opinion. It may have passed you by, but there was a reason why QPR installed the plastic pitch at Loftus Road yet ended up still being poor. Are you still in denial that with more cash investment in Loftus Road’s pitch has improved since then & its incomparable to the present day? Once again I don’t expect you to respond since you always seem to move onto other topics & claim I’m ‘digging’.Since you’ve mentioned that I’m incoherent, I’ll make it easy for you and list the rebuttals I’m still waiting for you to respond with your very strong statement in having direct PL experience & almost portraying judge, jury & executioner status on this:1) Have you researched the amount of matches all teams & not just the top teams in the 70’s & 80s’s first division played in total in comparison to all teams last season? If so, what conclusion and source have you derived & have you accepted generally the avg PL team plays more matches than their 70 & 80’s counter parts.2) Do supporters disregard or enjoy their teams aiming to achieve top 4 to get into Europe & achieve trophies? You seem to bounce around this subject first claiming supporters do not see this as a success but then in your later posts state they do indeed get excited about finishing fourth. Make a decision please.3) Villa & Newcastle selling their star players despite having wealthy owners, with one club arguably backed by the most wealthiest in the world. Any comments or cutting edge insight into this & why they can’t compete for titles against the top 6? Unless you have indeed written your answers on a postcard & I await Royal Mail’s delivery.4) Sheffield Wednesday & Leicester City incurring debt deficits. Is this really a modern day football issue & only arisen now as you seem to suggest due to the mass investment of money or were football clubs already incurring debt as far back as the 60s with now well regarded clubs such as Liverpool?You strike me as an individual who enjoys the sound of your own voice & doesn’t take too kindly to people who challenge you on topics & presented with facts. Instead deflecting to personal, snide remarks to make your point. I’ll give you examples before you inevitably protest…references to ignorance when remarking on football simply because I work in a managing consultant firm yet don’t work in the consultant area, why should this make difference in your small minded world; stating I’m an AI construct & do I also work in Thames Water. What a gent you are.I would advise don’t bother responding unless you want to constructively address the points raised, otherwise we seem to be using up a fair amount of W4.com bandwidth space.

Neil Barton ● 1d

Neil, if you aren’t some AI construct, you give away you lack of knowledge every time you post. You wrote this:“Howabout the Glenn Roaders of the era playing for a lesser club for QPR in the top flight back then. Do you think he was on a comparatively large salary in comparison to say Trevor Sinclair back in his QPR days and do you not think the money improved the pitch quality of Loftus Road in comparison to the 70s & 80’s era & lead to football progressing in quality? Why did I mention Glenn Roader, as you know a ball playing defender who has stated during his punditry say he would have been far more effective playing on these pitches regardless if he was travelling to Turf Moor or Stamford Bridge. These days the ptiches are pretty much the same in quality, not quite the same back in the 70’s & 80’s. How did it get to this – money & not just to the top clubs.”Firstly, his name was Glenn Roeder. Maybe a small thing but indicative of a genera lack of accuracy in what you post. Glenn played about 20 games for QPR in the old first division, most when they were relegated in 1979. He joined Newcastle in 1983?when Keegan was there. Look it up if you don’t believe me. I met Glenn, maybe not the greatest player or manger but a nice guy.The QPR pitch was plastic from 1981 until 1988. Obviously you forgot that. Not sure any player had much input into improving the pitch quality. All the players I spoke to about it said it was shit. Maybe better than a lumpy grass pitch but shit nonetheless.Keep digging though. It’s hilarious.

Simon Hayes ● 1d

Dennis, the W4 football passion will diminish when Brentford eventually get relegated. Then those fickle ‘fans’ will be back at Chelsea, Spurs and Arsenal to watch the big games. Presently it’s convenient for the footy tourists to visit the bus stop in Brentford, when they are conspicuously absent during the League One and Championship days.

Simon Hayes ● 1d

“Yes, the reason there were tiny squads for almost most teams in the 70's & 80's quite simply is because there was less money in the sport than these days.”Nice angle but wrong. Players were paid less but having a large squad was pointless if you can’t put those players on the pitch. With one substitute it was hard to keep a big squad happy. All players want to play, apart from Christian Ziege it seems. No point having 26 players if they aren’t getting on the pitch.Neil, you write screeds of not very coherent arguments. Then you shout me down if I put forward counter arguments. Genuinely a management consultant. I wonder if you’ve been working with Thames Water. You don’t seem to have a deep knowledge base about football.If you really think football is better now, that’s fine. Your opinion is valid in your brain, but not necessarily shared with others.And if you dismiss anyone with direct experience of how the PL operates then it reflects badly on you.

Simon Hayes ● 1d

A management consultant. Explains your obsession with money without actually knowing anything. Well done. You’ve proved your ignorance in one line.

Simon Hayes ● 1d

There is a pattern here.Controversy and shady practises have followed them for decades.They misname thuggery as passion.

Keith Iddon ● 2d

I never knew the volume of interest existed for football amongst the fellas on the W4 forum until now.It goes without saying there is a degree of frustration shared amongst all after the skillful but dirty, mocking Argies semi final win.There is a chance to hit back and gain a modicum of revenge this very evening if our rugby boys can gain some salvation  in Santiago.Argentina v England  ITV1k.o  8.30pm

Denis I. Fox ● 2d

Once again a response with not addressing any of the earlier queries. Care to expand on your statement on football being popular in this era as in the 70s & 80s as debatable? Or did you actually research this afterwards & realise this isn’t correct & move swiftly on to net spend football economics.Disregard successful clubs please playing more matches since that is the definition of cherry picking. Simply look at in general or average football clubs playing a number of matches in the 70’s & 80’s, yes both successful & unsuccessful & compare it to the number of matches successful & unsuccessful teams play in this era – I’m afraid to tell you there is a gap, whether you choose to ignore it. Doesn’t sound like you’ve read my earlier comments since I’ve repeatedly said you can’t compare footballers in different eras & confidently say one successful team from one era could beat another since there are so many variables despite your comments suggesting otherwise. Quite a statement to suggest you’ve witnessed the greatest football era without any real tangible evidence. What I have said I you conveniently ignore is there is more money in the sport compared to the 70s & 80s & as a result the money has also spread to the non-superstar players and clubs to improve the quality of football. You seem to be fixated on the Keegan’s & superstars of the past era with the top clubs. Superstar footballers have existed in every era & will continue to do so & as a result money will follow them. Howabout the Glenn Roaders of the era playing for a lesser club for QPR in the top flight back then. Do you think he was on a comparatively large salary in comparison to say Trevor Sinclair back in his QPR days and do you not think the money improved the pitch quality of Loftus Road in comparison to the 70s & 80’s era & lead to football progressing in quality? Why did I mention Glenn Roader, as you know a ball playing defender who has stated during his punditry say he would have been far more effective playing on these pitches regardless if he was travelling to Turf Moor or Stamford Bridge. These days the ptiches are pretty much the same in quality, not quite the same back in the 70’s & 80’s. How did it get to this – money & not just to the top clubs. As for your disrupter clubs comment, if you’re not actually winning trophies as you’ve pointed out is important to supporters what exactly are you disrupting? The Keegan to Southampton wasn’t the norm back them similar to Maradona to Napoli. And if we’ve talking about football finances, the less said the better on how indeed they managed to fund this via legal or perhaps illegal loans. And who are you to suggest Harry Kane won’t return to a mid table Premier League club once he’s spent his time in Germany – he may return to Tottenham Hotspurs who finished 17th in the league last season similar to Keegan to return to familiar surroundings. You’ve also contradicted yourself in your earlier post stating supporters don’t regard finishing fourth as a success & now backtracking in saying supporters do get excited due to me stating this indeed could lead to European trophies next season.Great you mentioned Villa & Newcastle…why do you think they have recently needed to sell players despite having extremely wealthy owners? I’ll give you a clue, some certain rules & who drove those rules? Answers on a postcard please.I’ll answer your sarcastic question since you don’t seem to address any of my queries without skirting around them. I do not work or am affiliated to Sky & am presently work at a managing consultant firm. Your final paragraph sums you up from a typical ex-sports journo behaviour by putting words into my mouth & suggesting the modern game is unsurpassed in quality. Please do let me know when I have stated this rather grand hyperbole. Its improved for the average football club in relation to the 70s & 80s. The Sheffield Wednesday & Leicester City recent examples are individual club mis-management issues. Its not a modern day football issue & football debt issues have always existed as far back as the 60s such as with Liverpool. The only difference back then it was free for all & no financial football rules to adhere to as there are now.

Neil Barton ● 2d

Thanks Nicholas. I was a sports journalist for a few years and had a lot of dealings with Premier League players, managers and the rest. Most football fans would be horrified if they were fully aware of how most clubs operate. It’s only when things go spectacularly wrong that it becomes public knowledge.This article on the BBC is worth a read, as is anything by Alex Fynn.https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cn4vpezd2jpo

Simon Hayes ● 2d

Simon, I think your explanation is very good. I don't know much about football only what I have read. The extra revenue from tv and the result is very clear. As I say I read your post with great interest, thanks for making things clear to me.

Nicholas Beard ● 2d

Er, you have been the one cherrypicking to try to prove something. It seems that the main thrust of your argues is that there’s more money in football now and that makes it better. Paying massive salaries and transfer fees isn’t an indication of that, it’s more an indication that clubs are throwing money at players who simply aren’t worth it. Have a look at the number of big money flops in recent years.Meanwhile net debt of Premiership clubs is £3.5billion. At some point that bubble is going to burst. For the likes of Leicester and Sheffield Wednesday it already has.It’s you who is misinterpreting. Successful clubs have always played more matches per season. That there are more games now is largely due to expanding European tournaments. The reason for that? Increased television revenue. It’s why supporters get so excited about their teams finishing fourth. It doesn’t mean it’s better, just more. True, fans love a European away day, but only if they can afford it. They aren’t always so happy when those away days have a negative impact on their league performances.There have always been disrupter clubs. Just because they didn’t win the league doesn’t mean they didn’t exist. Ipswich and Southampton are two prime examples, punching well above their weight in the 70s and 80s. Saints lured Kevin Keegan to the Dell in 1980, an unbelievable coup back then. I don’t see Harry Kane being tempted to sign for Crystal Palace or any other mid-table side should he decide he’s had enough of Germany this summer. The big players now just want the massive salaries at the big six clubs. It’s why it’s increasingly difficult for sides like Villa or Newcastle, for example, to hold on to key players.I’m not saying football is better back in the day than it is now, but to think that the modern game is unsurpassed in quality is strange. There are usually several pretty poor sides in the PL every season. That will be the same in the forthcoming campaign.I wonder if you work for Sky. You’ve certainly swallowed the hype.

Simon Hayes ● 2d

You don’t seem to very clear on your statements & what you’re referring to & instead move from topic to topic cherry picking points & indulging in nostalgia. A bold claim in saying I’m wrong & then a statement on Manchester City playing 60 games without any context. I’ve given you context in the 1980’s Aston Villa team & comparing their success to their 2026 team & how many more games they’ve played.If you want to simply ignore or be in denial that generally footballers play more matches overall than their counterparts in the 70’s or 80’s I don’t what to say apart from simply researching it yourself & Google is indeed your friend.Furthermore, the multiple games in a week during Christmas period you’ve stated is exactly what happens to date so I’m not sure what you’re trying to suggest here. That’s on top of the 3 days per week which occurs more frequently due to the tv scheduling which didn’t occur back in the 70’s or 80’s since there was less tv money back then.I’m unsure why you then gave a brief history on Palace which I’m fully aware of especially when I was referring to the team in context to why there is more money in football & players who play for Palace earn huge amounts of salary compared to the Palace team of the 70s or 80s. Let alone then mentioning the player cup tie rule being amended this season out of the blue for no particular reason.The kick & rush football comment I’ve already addressed & if you think the standard of defending in the 80s & 90s was top notch then we’ll have to agree to disagree as there’s far much more science & data these days on how to close down spaces & tactical acumen for not just the big clubs but also the mid table teams these days which was not the case back in previous eras with less resources.You seemed to have misunderstood my Dyche jibe at management & he’s nowhere near a top manager. It was a spin on if people don’t think Pep can manage a lower league team successfully then I don’t think a lesser manager as Sean Dyche would be able to manage a top club like Manchester City, United or Arsenal successfully.Seems to me a bit of myth about more disrupter clubs back in the 70s or 80’s. Just look at the list or should I say lack of different teams winning the title back then…it was either Liverpool, Derby or Leeds in the 70s with Forest bagging one & once again Liverpool, Everton, or Arsenal & Villa bagging one in the 80’s. Now that’s hardly an extensive list of different football clubs & is it really that different from a disrupter point of view to today’s era or are you simply looking back through rose-tinted glasses.Leicester City winning the title from Spurs, I’m not sure why you mentioned Manchester City since they were not in contention that season was a great story but £72m is still a sizeable investment & hardly a rags to riches fairlytale & I’m sure without the King Power’s billionaire money would not have been able to compete. Just like Manchester City wouldn’t have been able to win without their investment the last two decades and Chelsea back in the Abramovich era & Manchester United with the flotation cash in the 90s and Liverpool with their Littlewoods & Moores cash injection back in the 60s. Quite a theme there you might want to pick up on.I mentioned the top 4 in jest as you may have forgotten this was the original category back in the 90’s & coined phrase by Sky when the tv money really starting flowing in. The original top 4 back then were Manchester United, Chelsea, Arsenal & Liverpool. It’s certainly not debatable that football is far more popular now than the 70s or 80s. If you don’t believe me simply research it & its there in black and white. And of course money has played a part, but then again the money men wouldn’t back it if it wasn’t a popular sport.I’m not sure who has told you fourth place is a success, I definitely havn’t & odd you have brought this up. But it does facilitate teams to try and win European trophies in the subsequent season & ask any football fan they love a European away fixture including myself.

Neil Barton ● 2d

There will be a slap on the wrist and a minimal fine. Never underestimate the power of the big clubs.Meanwhile Sheffield Wednesday are almost hounded into extinction for financial transgressions that are minor in comparison. Go figure.

Simon Hayes ● 2d

Similarly Derby’s Baseball Ground was more suited to potato growing than cultured football yet Clough and MacKay produced two title winning sides out of it. And it wasn’t ’kick and rush’ either. Forest played on a bog in 77-78 when they won the league. Goal of the season on MOTD that year was a move that went the length of the pitch and finished by Archie Gemmill.Football didn’t start with the Premier League. It’s okay but it’s nowhere near the greatest football ever seen.

Simon Hayes ● 2d

Investigations started in 2019 into Manchester City's unlawful transfer dealings between 2009 and 2018, resulting in 115 charges of breaking financial rules.It took an independent committee of counsellors 7 years to produce findings in the Chilcot Inquiry (GB's participation in the Iraq war), so if we accept that duration as the standard time to draw a conclusion to an Inquiry Manchester City should learn their fate later this year, preferably before the start of our domestic season.Couldn't buy a postcard anywhere in Chiswick Keith, hope this will suffice.

Denis I. Fox ● 2d

There are now no FA Cup tie replays,the game going instead to extra time and penalties.Teams in the past used to lump the ball up the field more often than they do now because the pitch was quite often resembled a quagmire.Old Trafford was particularly bad but still bred the likes of Best,Law and Charlton playing some wonderful stuff and later the Bryan Robson side of the 80's.All of those would have shone nowadays.

Keith Iddon ● 2d

Try and find footage of Laurie Cunningham at Real Madrid. Unusually for a British player at the time he became a cult hero for his skill, but ignored by England managers. West Brom fans of my acquaintance still purr about him 50 years on.

Simon Hayes ● 2d

Sorry Neil, you are wrong. Manchester City played 60 matches last season across all competitions. They won two of those and nearly won the league. Playing every three days? Oh dear. It want uncommon back in the day to play four gages in a week at Christmas and Easter. The modern fixture list is entirely dictated by the television schedulers, not the league. Often to the disadvantage of the committed supporter who travels to away games.There are fewer league matches but more Champions League games. Fewer domestic cup games for the big guns. Why do you think that is? They play their reserve squads until the later stages then put out their first teams for finals. They even got the cup tied rule dropped, so City’s big money signing could play in the League Cup. Funny that.I’m not sure how much you know about football. Palace were third division (League One to newbies) for a chunk of the 70s. Piss poor for most of they decade until they nearly bankrupted themselves under Terry Venables.As for kick and rush. I suggest you watch the top teams of past eras and come back with a revised opinion.Dyche is a decent manager but not top notch. Ferguson worked miracles at Aberdeen with very limited resources in a league dominated by two clubs, Celtic and Rangers. His talent was such that he kept his best players and moulded them into a team capable of beating the best in Europe. Even the Sassenachs over the border knew most of the Dons side of the early 80s.When Ferguson went to United in 86 they weren’t a struggling side but it took four years to land a trophy. He had to change the culture of the club. No modern coach would get that luxury.I agree that Liverpool and United dominated their eras, but the difference now is that it’s increasingly difficult for a disrupter club to emerge. They are simply outmuscled. And Leicester didn’t buy their title. Here’s the comparison with Chelsea.‘Leicester's squad cost just £72 million (seven times less than the £415m Man City spent on theirs at the time)’Not sure why you think there were only four big clubs. Anybody following English football for long enough knew there were six - Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, Liverpool, City and United. Always outspent everyone else, even when not winning trophies.Football is more popular now than 70s and 80s? Debatable. It’s better marketed and more expensive but then it’s sold as a commodity now rather than a sport.Football isn’t better now, just different and my previous point still stands that it’s about money more than anything else. No proper football fan thinks fourth place is success, nor do players, regardless of Champions League participation.

Simon Hayes ● 2d

Players are generally fitter now than in the past and some are in teams because they are quick,but that doesn't make them better footballers.I like those players who didn't particularly need pace to dictate play,like Scholes,Berbatov,Mata,Sheringham,Cantona,Hoddle.They would have been as good now as they were then.

Keith Iddon ● 2d

We have yet to find out whether Manchester City flouted the transfer rules and won by subterfuge.Anyone know when we will find out? Answers on a postcard etc...

Keith Iddon ● 2d

I certainly didn’t say there was no money in the 70’s & 80 English football but you can’t honestly compare the salary of an average footballer back then to now. They are worlds apart & this is where the difference between a mid table club in the 70’s would be able to afford in comparison to a similar mid-table club in today’s Premier League era. Yes, of course the stars of players at big, successful teams in 70’s would be well renumerated but it wasn’t all of them simply because there wasn’t huge amounts of money back then. You can’t tell me a Crystal Palace player in the 70’s or 80’s was on a comparatively same inflation based levels as now an Adam Wharton or Chris Richards. Not superstars but earning far more than even your investment banker director these days.Its common knowledge with the increase of football competitions footballers in this country do play more matches than their predecessors, as well as their regularity in order to adhere to tv schedules often playing matches every 3 days. Whilst also factoring in more international matches for the top players to participate in.I don’t think I’ve been dismissive of players in the past, but simply highlighting the differences between the eras. I do agree those players do have some great stories but then again it was a different era with certainly different professional standards. Stating these older superstars applying the nutrition & fitness science of today with a minimum performance gap of today’s footballers suggests there is a difference between the two eras.A majority of retired footballers state the quality of football these days are of a higher quality. It doesn’t mean today’s footballers are better than their predecessors but more the quality of football on displayed has moved on. The quality of tactics have evolved. Its no longer kick & rush football & as much as I enjoyed Keegan & Barnes going past players generally defending was a lot less to be desired.I was commenting on the general Premier League weekly matches as opposed to title winners. If today’s Premier League weekly matches are as predictable as you say, would I advise you to visit your local bookies to make a fortune.Is Manchester City’s dominance in this decade any more or less predictable & different to Liverpool’s dominance in the 80’s or United’s in the 90’s all of which in some form were financially backed. Even to a lesser extent was Leicester City, by King Power’s billionaire owner. Your tongue in cheek comment querying Pep being successful managing a lower league team could also be applied to Paisley & Ferguson. I suspect the answer would be no, as its different horses for different courses. And to put into context on the other side of the scale in managing a top team with top players, I don’t think Sean Dyche would have had the same success managing these highlighted great teams.Good to see you’ve now expanded the top 4 to 6 which means there’s some competitiveness progress. I don’t agree with the new financial rules & I do agree its beginning to create a closed shop for some but you may first want to ask why there were introduced & by whom before lambasting Chelsea, Manchester City etc. They certainly weren’t introduced by these two clubs.The football tourist seems to be garnering a bad reputation. In truth they are needed for football clubs as they also bring in money to the sport. What we don’t want is the sport to wither away like county cricket with a lack of funding & investment. If the tourist fan gets behind the team, it really shouldn’t matter where they come from.I actually think you’re fairly dismissive of the amount of money that has gone into the sport & the impact its made in making the game more popular & progressive in comparison to the 70s & 80’s. I would not say its inevitable that players from African origin would play in the big leagues without the investment over the years in the sport with facilitating & attracting them there. The reason for a lack of homegrown Scottish footballers seems to more of a societal issue with even Duncan Ferguson commenting on this recently & underinvestment by various local governments leading to lack of opportunities & facilities from an early age in comparison to previous generations.

Neil Barton ● 2d

Anyone who thinks that the greats from any era would not be so today given the improved diets,medical treatment,training methods,easier lifestyles,protection from referees,support the clubs give from a young age,much better pitches and boots etc.is deluded in my opinion.Even an average player from the  past would be average now given the advantages they now would have.I am not so sure the reverse would apply.ow many modern players would have cut the mustard in the 60's and 70's for instance?

Keith Iddon ● 2d

There was enough money back then as players weren’t paid the obscene amounts they pocket these days. Top players were well remunerated in comparison with other trades. Liverpool, Man U, Arsenal and others were paying big wages and big transfer fees, so to say there was no money is incorrect.I’m not sure your argument about playing more games stands up. In 1976-77 season Liverpool used 22 players and played 62 matches. Last season Vilaplayed a ‘mere’ 56, with 31 players.Good players are good players, regardless of eras. I’m surprised you are so dismissive of those who went before. I’ve met a lot of very good footballers from both the PL era and the decades before and the big difference is that the old players all said they enjoyed it far more than the modern players do. Less scrutiny in some respects, but still the same requirement to get results. And the old guys have far better stories.If you applied the same fitness, nutrition and other factors to those players you’d be amazed to realise that there’s not much between the players then and now. It’s the same in any sport. It doesn’t mean modern football is better.If you really think the Premier League isn’t predictable you might want to pay more attention. Other than Leicester’s surprise title a decade ago it’s quite predictable. There’s a lot of dross in the league, as there always has been, but it’s better disguised now. But it’s the usual suspects every year.What we are seeing is an increasing obsession with money and that being the main factor of success now. Fourth place isn’t anything, even if it gets you a shot at Champions League football for a few weeks. Trophies are what counts for true supporters, but then traditional supporters aren’t that important in the modern game. Better to have a football tourist than an occasional local fan. Even Brentford are guilty of that, despite their community club credentials.Any fool can see that the rules are being gamed to keep the big six at the top of the table. Chelsea’s £10m fine for multiple breaches of financial regulations is laughable. Same will happen with City.Agree that African football is better (although the Cameroon side of 82 was excellent), but that was inevitable as increasing numbers of players from across the continent are playing in the big leagues. The downside, as others have said, is a dilution of opportunities for homegrown players. Why do you think Scotland have failed to produce a decent crop of players for over 30 years?And Pep has been good, but how would he fare with a lower league side with no massive budget? That would be interesting to see.

Simon Hayes ● 2d

Yes, the reason there were tiny squads for almost most teams in the 70's & 80's quite simply is because there was less money in the sport than these days. There's no point trying to compare & speculate whether the great Liverpool teams of the 70's 80's would fare against say the title winning team of Klopp or even Slot. Different eras, different football style, different officiating, different budgets. However, each era has their superstars & its vastly well known footballers are far more professional in terms of sports science & nutrition than the 70's & 80's which of course is going to affect football quality.This World Cup is prove say in comparison to the 86 WC where a lot of the African nations have kicked on since then & now competing well with the historic European powerhouses. The Aston Villa team of the 80's did indeed have a small squad whilst at the same time played less matches than say their recent counterparts this season winning the Europa League & I believe playing around 10 or 12 matches more.We'll never know if that would make a difference but I have to say watching the Premier League these days I really don't  know who will win on a weekly basis which is why its gained in popularity & generated so much tv revenue & surpassed La Liga & Serie A in viewership. I'm not entirely sure this could be said decades ago. As a result teams like Brentford & Brighton have become established Premier League teams which was unimaginable & routinely give the so called top four sides some very competitive games.The outlier seems to be Pep in this recent era & with him no longer in the Premier League I suspect we'll see the title change hands to different teams on a number of occasions. Just ask Arne Slot how difficult it is to retain titles even when Liverpool splashed close to half a billion pounds on transfers last summer with no trophy return.

Neil Barton ● 2d

‘Quality and competition weren’t as fierce’? Really?Football wasn’t invented in 1992, you know. The old First Division was hugely competitive and was littered with world class players, most of who were from the UK. Or do the likes of Best, Charlton, Dalglish, Keegan, etc not count? Look at the number of clubs that won the league between, say 1970 and 1990, and it’s a far more varied mix than the super wealthy sides hoovering up the trophies these days.Modern players might be fitter and stronger, but then they are playing on pitches that are like carpets and not having lumps kicked out of them. The great Liverpool sides of the 70s and 80s would have been more than a match for the modern sides. Ditto, Manchester United, Leeds under Revie, the early 80s Spurs sides and Bobby Robson’s Ipswich. They all achieved huge success at home and in Europe with tiny squads. Aston Villa used just 14 players when they won the title in 1980-81. Imagine that these days.Guardiola is a great coach - and benefits from a big support team and vast financial backing - but he’s only as good as the era in which he operates. The same applies to Clough, Shankly, Paisley, Ferguson and all the others.

Simon Hayes ● 2d

Meanwhile, England are threatening to walk off the field tomorrow against Argentina as they were racially abused last time they played them away. And the stakes look a little higher for tomorrows match 8.10 pm kickoff on ITV

Julian Pavey ● 3d

Hopefully the lads will have enough left in the tank to get a result on Friday.My heart says they will but my head says they will not.Both teams will be playing purely for pride,so let's hope they can both finish the match with their heads held high.There is a bit of discent in both camps so it will be interesting to see how the management teams have brought that around to go one more time.Expect to see a few changes made earlier in the game if things aren't going well in my opinion.

Keith Iddon ● 3d

I’m not entirely sure Francis where you collate your sports news but the answers to your queries have already been circulated in the public domain.Pep has already said the reason he left Manchester City is because of being burnt out & not having the energy to address another rebuild. There are no other nefarious reasons which you are seemingly suggesting. As for challenges, its also why I think he will return to football management. If you do read books on Sir Alex Ferguson, Ancelotti, Pep Guardiola the one theme is obvious, these men are built differently & why they were so successful at the top. Whilst money may have been a motivator earlier on in their careers it’s the challenge which always drives them on. Pep mentioned numerous of times he would have left Manchester City much earlier on if it wasn’t for his annual & fierce battles with Klopp & his ferocious Liverpool sides which drove him & his coaching staff to continually evolve, innovate & force them to play at a higher level. Its also why its not a surprise to me after a break Klopp has returned to football to manage the German national team where I think he will succeed if given the time.Unsure where you have this narrative on Abu Dhabi having less money as I didn’t realise you had access to their treasury & where it goes :-)From the outside it seems a very different point of view. A quick google search states Etihad have spent the 6th biggest football shirt sponsorship in world football & it looks like the owners have committed a further £300m to expanding their ground, which to me doesn’t sound like a concern for any future significant sanctions. I can’t also imagine this will be their only big money transfer for the summer & its more to do with PSR/SCR obligations for now all Premier League football teams to comply with.  Mentioning SAF & his success at Aberdeen along with Clough & Forest is comparing apples with oranges in regards to Pep. A different era, where I would argue quality & competition was not as fierce as club football is here in today’s Premier League. I think the former managers excelled in man management but perhaps not the best tactically & relied more on their backroom staff for this. Personally, I think Pep has both of these traits in abundance. The mad professor with his tactics, yet the aura to convince players they could do it. Plenty of examples of this in coaching players to their best form from his days at Bayern with Lahm & Kimmich to City with Raheem Sterling, David Silva & Kevin De Bruyne who was affectionately previously known as a Chelsea reject.Lastly, it may not surprise you I’m not a fan of Lee Carsley taking over the England team on a permanent basis. He had his shot after Southgate & you could see his limitations. Do you honestly think he will be able to keep the likes of Bellingham, who seems to be our future in check. I will give Southgate his flowers though, in turning around a previously toxic first team culture with club cliques & forming a far more amenable team. The Dear England drama series recently on the BBC is a great watch, once you get past the actors & their characters, albeit a lot of the series exaggerated with Southgate’s words.

Neil Barton ● 3d

sorry for the minor gibberish..

Keith Iddon ● 3d

At most Premier League clubs tha best 7 or 8 players are foreign,so immediately England's choice of top quality players with is limited.Of the ones who are eligible,some will be at the beginning or coming to end of their career and most won't be of international standard.Ask yourself how many English players would get into the Argentina,France or Spain team.Beyond the two who you are thinking of,and even they are not a shoo in.There aren't others anywhere near anywhere near in my opinion.

Keith Iddon ● 3d

Neil, if my respect for Pep Guardiola comes across as grudging, I have not expressed my thoughts on him well. He is definitely the most impactful manager in the history of the English game. Whether he is the best depends on your metric - would he have won European trophies with Aberdeen or Nottingham Forest? Probably not. Would his style have worked in an era before undersoil heating? Probably not. Clough and Ferguson could take a group of players and make them much more than the sum of its parts. Pep can take the best players and make them into an unbeatable team in a sport in which the team with the best players doesn't always win.If anyone has inside knowledge about what is going on with City's legal difficulties it will be Pep. It remains to be seen what City's transfer budget will be going forward but big spending now could be an indication of what Maresca negotiated for rebuilding and hence will be a one off. Even then sales of Marmoush and Savinho could offset the Anderson purchase.Abu Dhabi has less money than it used to and more things it needs to spend it on so you may find that the sponsorship deal with the Etihad is a bit less than it has been.The question was not whether or not Pep is a great manager - he is - but whether he relishes a challenge. The rebuilding of the multiple title winning squad would be a great test for any manager. Pep may have chosen not to take it on for reasons not connected to football but we'll never know whether he can win a league when there are two or three teams competing with equivalent or better squads than he has  at his disposal.I think you are spot on with your analysis of how his skills wouldn't be fully utilised as England manager but I'd still love him to take on the job. Failing that England should do what so many of the successful teams, including Argentina, have done - recruit from within the existing structure. Lee Carsley would have been my pick to replace Southgate and I would still go down that route.

Francis Rowe ● 3d

Has this thread mutated into a worst football songs ever one?Euro 96 was a fabulous tournament though.

Andrew Jones ● 3d

Ha....🤭

Julian Pavey ● 3d

You're all wrong - Frank Lampard will be leading Coventry City to European qualification and success in the next couple of years and will then be ready for the England job.

Richard Greenhough ● 3d

Horrendous take on this & I can only fathom Francis is a bitter Manchester United supporter as opposed to a fan of football. I’ve followed Pep’s career for quite some time, ranging from his La Masia days to becoming probably at this moment in time the best football club manager I’ve ever seen at a top level. In my opinion he surpasses Sir Alex Ferguson mainly down to as Francis has stated his huge impact on English football not just in the Premier League but also at a grass roots levels. I certainly didn’t see school kids or young, aspiring football managers trying to play the SAF & United way back in his days. Pep Guardiola has stated many times his wish to manage a national team & I do think he will sooner, rather than later. He will have his suitors, Brazil, England, who knows. Contrary to Francis’s rather cynical opinion that he decided to leave Manchester City due to ‘insider knowledge’ of the club incurring transfer sanctions & the oil money drying up are laughable since no one knows the legal outcome & it certainly hasn’t restricted the club this summer seemingly spending more than £100m on Eliot Anderson more than any other player during Pep’s tenure.He decided to leave the club after 10years for the same reason as Jurgen Klopp left Liverpool – burn out. These managers aren’t robots and often sacrifice their personal lives including marriages to achieve the top heights. A break was certainly needed for an intense individual that simply lives football 24/7. He will be back & managing England is a strong possibility as Francis probably wasn’t aware of it was discussed internally last year before extending his contract with Manchester City & the FA eventually selecting Thomas Tuchel.However, I do have my reservations on how successful Pep Guardiola would be managing England in its current state. He’s a manager who is most effective in working on a regular basis with players & coaching the small details into them, which he won’t get as a national team coach often only working a couple of times a yr with players. It would also mean a hard reset & starting right from scratch on how we play football & forming a strong playing identity beginning from the FA national team youth level, similar to what the Spanish have done in the past. Since currently like many others I couldn’t tell you what England’s football style was at this World Cup tournament. Then there’s the unforgiving media. Don’t forget Pep didn’t win a trophy in his first year at Manchester City & of course the media & public alike called him a fraud & you can’t play his type of football in the English league. 9 years later & as the saying goes the rest is history as he turned Manchester City into the most dominant team in recent domestic English Premier League history.

Neil Barton ● 3d

The top English qualified goal scorer in top European leagues last season aged 27 or under was Mason Greenwood.

Francis Rowe ● 3d

He may love a challenge but his managerial career has ranged from Barcelona to Man City via Bayern Munich, which suggests he has never actually gone looking for a real one. His departure from City may well have been prompted by inside knowledge that the transfer kitty may be reduced by league sanctions and the oil money that funded the club's rise being spent on air defence.He would be the perfect appointment. The Spain/Portugal/Morocco tournament is going to be the toughest one ever for a non-host to win. Once again England will be face with conditions that don't suit its traditional playing style and the strengths of its players. To have any chance of progressing there would need to be a change in style to possession football and Guardiola has created a platform for that to happen by the way he has revolutionised the English game to the extent that you see teams in local parks playing out from the back.Personally I don't think he would take the job. He knows that the chances of winning in 2030 are minimal. He can see that there is simply no international class goal scorer in the pipeline for England once Kane has gone. Tuchel got England to a semi-final yet he emerges from the tournament with his reputation tarnished and Pep will recognise that will be his likely fate if he takes the job.

Francis Rowe ● 3d

Tuchel, I think, will step down at some point as the fans have turned, and I think it will be hard to get them back. Be interesting if he gets a frosty reception on Saturday. And what about the players?Not sure many liked the decision the other day.If the FA sacked Tuchel and he was still free, then Pep Guardiola would jump at the job. Those within say he actually would like to take on the job. He loves a challenge.

Julian Pavey ● 3d

Wayne Rooney has had 4 shots at management, and they have all been abysmal failures.  How to turn the England football team from a good side to a champion side is a very long running conundrum.Dare I say it, we have generally lacked the technical expertise to hit the very highest standards.Watching Spain play the ball around against France the other night was the standard I mean.

Denis I. Fox ● 4d

Rooney seems to know a lot, so why isn't he the next manager?

Nicholas Beard ● 4d

Andy Burnham has avoided nearly all political enquiries so far  but today I liked his reply when asked who he thought might win the World Cup.He said "Good luck to both teams, especially Spain".

Denis I. Fox ● 4d

As I said earlier, I think we were lucky to get as far as we did. Mind you, I thought France were going to win the entire thing so there is that!

Chris Blackwell ● 4d

Yes,another heroic failure.And but for the straight right jab to the back of Anderson's head,which on another day would be a straight red card,and the ref keeping the yellow card in his pocket until too late in the game,it was a reasonably level playing field.I can agree with most of what you say Mark,but I thought James into the middle for Rice was a decent call.As soon as Tuchel took Gordon off and put a defender on I wondered if he thought we were still playing Mexico. think Tuchel was trending Southgate after 65 mins though,we needed some pace up front,win a throw or a corner or a free kick.

Keith Iddon ● 4d

So another campaign ends in failure.I wonder what those hailing Tuchel as a big step forward from Southgate are saying now. I don't like to criticise people involved in football as they have much more information about what is happening than someone who is watching the game on the telly but it is surely obvious that the German Messiah got this badly wrong.His substitutions were reactive and handed the initiative to Argentina. When England went ahead he should have replaced Kane with Watkins, Gordon with Rashford, Mainoo for Rice and Burn for James. This would have provided at least some opportunity of England relieving the pressure rather than facing a half hour siege.

Mark Evans ● 4d

Indeed so Andrew.Let's hope Gary gets the treatmant he needs and is well again soon.Chris,whatever your opinion of England's progress the same can be said about Argentina in this World Cup,only in spades.England might have had the rub of the green against Norway,(although I think they fully deserved to win),but it's the first time that I can remember that happening since 1966.'Hand of God',Frank Lampard's goal that never was despite being 2 feet over the line..I could go on.

Keith Iddon ● 4d

Fingers crossed for Gary.(And England)

Andrew Jones ● 4d

Heads in the fridge, Hearts in the oven England.Just go out there and make it happen.Spare a thought for the great Gary Mabbut MBE, soccer legend and Ambassador for Diabetes 1 awareness. He played over 600 games for Tottenham and 16 for England whilst living with the decease from the age of 17.Gary picked up a diabetic related infection in his calf and lies seriously ill in a South African hospital.

Denis I. Fox ● 5d

I think England are lucky to be anywhere near the final to be honest. Should have lost to Norway really and I reckon we are on borrowed time. Interesting ...

Chris Blackwell ● 5d

I have everything crossed for the lads tonight.If there is a level playing field they have a more than decent chance in my opinion.If they pull it of and reach the final,I think it may be a different story against Spain.

Keith Iddon ● 5d

What I find strange is that the increase in domestic abuse is not reported on when a match is on!

Nicholas Beard ● 5d

Playing badly and still winning is always a good sign,but it only works for a while.I think we might get the better of Argentina(fingers firmly crossed) if it's a level playing field,but against  France or Spain I am not as hopeful.

Keith Iddon ● 8d

We were poor, rode our luck, suffered, stuck at it in the heat and humidity, and up popped Jude- twice.My Wonderwall.

Denis I. Fox ● 8d

Great result for the lads in a tough game tonight.Well done the officials involved,with the odd decision going the wrong way for both sides which is normal in a game but the vast majority the correct.It was not a penalty in my opinion,but gladly we didn't need it.

Keith Iddon ● 8d

Keep your fingers crossde for the boys tonight.With all the officials coming from countries still in the competition,I hope impartiallity and integrity is as high up on their list as it should be.I was disappointed to see that all 5 officials in the France v Morocco game were from Argentina.

Keith Iddon ● 8d

Football is all about opinions, listening to some football chat on Radio 5 live just after Tuchels final selections.One pundit voiced the view that Maguire hadn't been picked because he wouldn't be an automatic first choice and could be a disruptive influence resulting from that.Apparently one of the reasons Henderson has gone is because he is a " great locker room guy" as the Americans say.

David Burke ● 13d

Was it not 2020 when Maguire got red-carded at Wembley in an England defeat and was also found guilty of aggravated assault, resisting arrest and attempted bribery on vacation in Greece? He has been known for silly mistakes over the years. In 2022, in the Euros, he made 2 bad mistakes giving away 2 goals to Germany Player picks are a personal choice.

Julian Pavey ● 13d

Apologies. I of course meant Euro '20.

Keith Iddon ● 13d

It's a shame big Harry Maguire isn't out there to marshal that sometimes shaky defence.He relishes a battle with a centre forward and usually gets the better of Haaland in Manchester derby games.If we can get our wingers into the game again and play at a decent tempo we have a more than  decent chance of a win.Dan Burn is big and strong,but I am not sure he has Maguire's quality.Harry has a decent goal tally for England from centre half and is a willing penalty taker.Cast your mind back to Euro 24.In the shoot out his penalty nearly broke the back of the net.

Keith Iddon ● 13d

One small thing that should be in England’s favour is that most players will have encountered Harland in the premier league, whereas I imagine a lot of the Norwegian players won’t have had much if any experience playing against the English players most likely to cause a threat.I was pessimistic before the Mexico game, ( and expectant prior to the Ghana game) so really don’t want to get too carried away before the next match.

Andrew Jones ● 13d

I think you're going a bit overboard on the world class player count there Denis,but that's a matter of opinion.I count two.The main thing is we played  as a strong unit,every player knowing what his role was and sticking to it.If we carry on like this,we will have a great chance in the next game.

Keith Iddon ● 13d

What a night.Six players of world class in our ranks, a great defensive effort and willpower saw us through...somehow.Bring on the Vikings.

Denis I. Fox ● 13d

Well someone's got to say it...what a fantastic performance from the lads.A great team effort from deep within the lion's den,and at high altitude.It was good to see the wingers getting some chalk on their boots and getting crosses over from the byline,a la old school wing play.I just hope our centre haves can cope with Thor and his hammer in the next round!The best way to deal with him is probably stopping the ball from reaching him,not easy over 90 mins.

Keith Iddon ● 13d

Look on it as an official " lock in "

David Burke ● 15d

Having prior knowledge of North American football from my past betting activities, I get the feeling its forecast is not great, hence the FIFA meeting. But Mexico complained about the match being brought forward, so in the end, FIFA did not make the change. In my experience, it's not unusual for the stadium to be filled,the game delayed an hour, then another hour,  and so it goes on before the match gets cancelled. If the weather is forecast for torrential rain and thunderstorms, maybe, just maybe, those in the pub will get to 5 am without a football even being kicked. I might even have a chuckle if that happens

Julian Pavey ● 16d

FIFA has decided a drastic time-change to start the match would be too disruptive, so kick off will now go back to the original time of 1am GMT Monday morning.

Denis I. Fox ● 16d

Agreed David,add Maguire to marshal that shaky defence,Lewis Hall and Cole Palmer.Quansah,Henderson and Livramento should never have been in the squad imo.

Keith Iddon ● 16d

England's fixture against Mexico scheduled for the godawful time of Sunday midnight may well be brought forward to a 7pm kick off due to expected thunder storms.A most welcome rearrangement.

Denis I. Fox ● 16d

They should have brought Bowen

Dave Dodds ● 32d