Forum Topic

Is Britain poor or just most of its citizens?

We hear that we are now a poor country. Expectations managed down and down.I wonder though. When Britain was at the height of its power and wealth, with the biggest, richest empire the world had ever seen, most of its citizens lived in abject poverty and insecurity. 12 to 14 hour working day, subsistance wages. Dickens and other writers chronicled this.Conversely, I am part of the post war baby boomer generation and have done more than okay. Far better off than my parents and the following generations, able to "acquire assets" property, decent pension, generous redundancy in late 90s. And yet, the "boomers" inherited the direst economy Britain has ever had.Having gone over to a war economy, Britain ended the war with a staggering debt 275% of GDP and a destroyed or commandeered industrial infrastructure. Houses destroyed or badly damaged. Massive social upheaval, trauma and loss.From this massive debt and destruction the succeeding generation of ordinary folk achieved a level of prosperity their parents only dreamed of. Millions of houses were built, the NHS was established, free higher education and maintenance grants. We could buy houses, got decent pay and pensions, had a good standard of living. Looking at history, it seems the wealth of a country is not the only or main determinant of how wealthy ordinary citizens are.

Kathleen Healy ● 1d16 Comments

Unless of course people feel there is some sort of stigma about receiving benefits payments.

Andrew Jones ●

Not that it makes a difference, but the reason the State Pension is considered to be a benefit, is due to legislation introduced in 1992, when, if memory serves me right, one John Major, MP for Huntingdon, was PM.I really don’t see why people object to the State Pension being considered to be a non-means tested benefit for people who have reached the age of 67.

Andrew Jones ●

Peter, I never quite get the inequality argument, people want different things,

Janice Evans ● 7m

They will lose out on the elderly who are removing charity gifts from their wills, people really should think of the implications when they make these decisions.

Janice Evans ● 12m

Anyone looking through the 1926 irish census will see the poverty endured in Ireland. Many census returns show families of 10 or more in just 2 or 3 rooms. My grandfather was a laundry man and listed as single and living with his mother in the 1911 census. By 1926 he was still living with his mother but was widowed with 7 kids. Soon after the census he married my granny who also worked in the laundry and they had 12 kids all packed into the damp 3 bed cottage with one coal fire where I used to stay for summer holidays. My grandfather lost his first wife & their three eldest girls to TB & my granny lost three kids before she was widowed at the age of 46 with 9 surviving kids. As there were no benefits she had to start work to support the family & got a civil service job thanks to Liam Cosgrave's mother in Dail Eireann until she retired. During winter snow when there were no buses she had to walk 6 miles to work into central Dublin yet I never heard her or any of my aunts or uncles complain about life . My parents both left school at 14 and work was hard to find but because they could read, write and add up they could seek their fortune in England in 1954, By the early 60s they were earning £12 pw and had jobs for life, index linked pensions  and there was never any threat of redundancy. They bought their first house for £2000 (woth £1.2m today) in Shepherds Bush then bought a house in Airedale Avenue for £8000 (worth £2.1m today). The only holidays we had were two weeks in Ireland & I didn't get a passport until I was 27. Most kids today need to spend £50k on a worthless degree from a worthless university just to get a job, housing is unaffordable and now there is the threat of Ai that could make over 10m unemployed & claiming benefits while those responsible move their profits & tax liability overseas. Today's kids have little prospect of owning a home, having a pension & everyone nowadays faces uncertainty about their future and they seem depressed despite all their holidays, cars, restaurants & endless subscriptions. Being a child of the 60s I lived through a better society with respect, certainty and a simpler care free society for children to grow up in where work was plentiful and with good public services most of which has been destroyed.With the mounting health, welfare & pension bill for the elderly it does not surprise me that parliament is now pushing for assisted dying.

Jo Vaughan ● 35m

did look on google, see there had been a petition to Government to stop calling pensions a benefit, maybe because it makes the benefit bill looka lot more (and would think because it was paid for in N.I.) never went into what the petition was about,  It was originally just called 'old age pension' from 1906, it was paid from the age of 70.

Janice Evans ● 5h

Government announcement is confusing:‘ In 2025 to 2026 the government is forecast to spend £322.6 billion on the social security system in Great Britain…’(Of this) ‘..we will spend £177.7 billion on benefits for pensioners in GB (which) includes spending on the State Pension.. forecast to be £146.1 billion.’‘We will spend £145.0 billion on working age and children welfare.. including on Universal Credit..  £77.1 billion on benefits to support disabled people and people with health conditions, and £37.3 billion on housing benefits.’So about half the ‘benefits bill’ goes on pensions, which most people wouldn’t consider as ‘welfare’ in the same way as unemployment or disability payments. To the main question, the UK is supposed to be ‘the 6th richest country in the world’ but because of widespread inequality, wealth is concentrated in the hands of the top few percent, so the rest feel -and are - comparatively ‘poor’. This could easily be changed were there the political will to do so.

Peter Evans ● 15h

It used to be called State Pension, so was changed for some reason.

Janice Evans ● 17h

Then why is it called a benefit, it gives wrong figures for spending on benefits.

Janice Evans ● 18h

Yes, Rachel Thieves has got it in for those darn Boomers! More sensible people accept that although state pensions are officially classified as social security benefits they are commonly viewed as an earned entitlement or contractual right due to National Insurance (NI) contributions.

Steve Taylor ● 18h

55% (£177.8 billion), is spent on pensioner benefits (primarily the State Pension). Those darned boomers again.

Kathleen Healy ● 19h

It’s pretty obvious why Britain is now poor. Unless the Benefits Bill is reduced substantially, Britain will remain poor. It’s why the Conservatives and Reform are  determined to reform Benefits. Labour, Lib Dims and Greens are determined to keep Britain poor. “ Thd benefits bill is forecast to reach £333 billion to £334 billion for the 2025–26 financial year. This represents a significant portion of government expenditure—roughly 23.6% of total spending—and is currently higher than the total revenue raised from Income Tax.”

Steve Taylor ● 20h

By the lates 70s UK debt as a % of GDP was down to around 40%. Impressive. And done whilst investing in building housing, offering free higher education, building the NHS. I started work in 1979, cheap housing, utilities, public transport. My employer, Barclays, offered me day release to go to college to get a degree, refunded the fees, which weren't much anyway. Two cheap to access works sports clubs in London, one with an open air pool. Rowing Club in Putney. Non contributory two thirds final salary pension, Profit sharing. Barclays was very profitable shares went up.

Kathleen Healy ● 20h

Also we didn't finish paying off the post war debt until the nineties.

Nicholas Beard ● 22h

Well said. I've found myself wondering the same thing of late.

Anne England ● 1d

Years ago I don't remember prices rising as much as they do now, think it started after decimalisation and recently it's everything, All Bills, Insurances, anything you need basically, Apart from the increase in food prices, it's a difficult time even if you have a good pension would have thought.

Janice Evans ● 1d