Forum Topic

RIP Zipcar

Very disappointing to see the news about Zipcar. I did go without a car for a few months and used car clubs vehicles when needed and found them invaluable. My personal circumstances changed which meant I had to own a car and now I do wonder would it be possible ever to go back to using car clubs if provision is much less than it used to be.I was surprised to see how much was being charged for bays, particularly in Ealing. As with dockless bike hire, councils need to be careful that they don't undermine good transport iniatives by seeking to maximise revenues out of providers.

Mark Evans ● 10d29 Comments

" It is kinda funny that you think copying and pasting something then inserting the name of a borough means that it isn't plagiarised."Which indeed it isn't of course.Aside from its by-lined columns nowhere does ChiswickW4 claim that anything it publishes is original to itself.Which is a first requirement of plagiarism. Claiming somebody else's work as one's owm. Which ChiswickW4 never does.They are simply aggregators and repackagers of information which they gather from various sources which they judge may be of interest to their readers; while making no claims whatsoever as to its orgininality.michael adams 

Michael Adams ● 6d

Still haven't found the caps key then? It is at the left of the keyboard.I suppose that tunnel vision and myopia makes it difficult to see.It is kinda funny that you think copying and pasting something then inserting the name of a borough means that it isn't plagiarised.

Michael Robinson ● 6d

michael makes me laugh. i may have a man crush on him.Michael, on the other hand, might benefit from a colonic.

David Lesniak ● 7d

As always, michael adams completely misses the point along with missing the caps key when typing his name.He appears to think that because chiswickw4 is free, that legitimises them ripping off other people's work without providing credit...............Now let's see.chiswickW4 articlePar 1" Car club users in the boroughs of Ealing and Hounslow look set to face a significant reduction in the number of available vehicles." Londoncentric doesn't mention EalingPar 2 " Zipcar has announced plans......The move follows the withdrawal of Zipcar from Bristol, Oxford and Cambridge last year." Londoncentric doesn't mention OxfordPar 3In an email to customers, Londoncentric doesn't mention any emailPar 4For years, Zipcar, which has 650,000 members in the UK, was one of the most widely used car-sharing networks in London, and both Hounslow and Ealing integratedEaling again !Par 5Hounslow Council recorded 26 Nor Hounslow eitherPar 6 Councillor Katherine Dunne, Hounslow Council Cabinet Member for Climate,Say no more !Par 7Ealing Council listed Zipcar and Zipcar Flex Ealing again !......."I do have a paid subscription to London Centric"Well I can only suggest that you ask for your money back. As London Centric don't mention Ealing, Hounslow, Oxford,, Katherine Dune or an email in realtion to this story. In fact the free under resourced ChiswickW4 has clearly unearthed far more relevant "local information"than your source. Whilst also providing you with a free platform to air your views." And have pointed out ChiswickW4's unattributed copy and paste job to them."It must be a really gratifying feeling when trying toprovide people with a free local source of information free from political interference to be having to be dealing with people like you.But you tell them Michael. They're probably in need of as good a laugh, as you provide for people on here.michael adams   

Michael Adams ● 7d

The point is that it's not paid directly by the hirer - it is a cost borne by Zipcar and spread over all users (even those who don't use vehicles in the congestion zone) in the same way that other costs (cleaning, parking bays etc.) are

Andrzej Kowalski ● 7d

Can't see your logic. If a ZipCar is hired five times in a day it's a c.£2.70 premium. Hired twice and this goes up to £6.75.  Anyway, its now, as I said, academic as they are withdrawing.

N V Brooks ● 7d

Certainly the congestion charge would be an added cost for Zipcar and may well have tipped it over the edge.  But it's a mistake to attribute the congestion charge to each individual journey - the congestion charge is paid once per day (if the vehicle moves within the zone), irrespective of whether that is one journey or 20.  With petrol / diesel vehicles, the cost of the Congestion Charge is picked up by Zipcar and is spread over all users.  I can't imagine Zipcar doing otherwise for EVs.  So, yes, the cost per minute would go up a bit; but, no it's not "An instant £13.50 surcharge on the hire cost"

Andrzej Kowalski ● 7d

Catherine Annett ● 7d

Thanks, I was convinced that is was, Just checked out an Uber with 'non-surge pricing' and it's 19.00 each way. Borderline, but I guess academic as ZipCar are going.

N V Brooks ● 7d

No worries. Chelsea and Westminster is not in the C-Charge Zone.

Mark Evans ● 8d

As always, michael adams completely misses the point along with missing the caps key when typing his name.He appears to think that because chiswickw4 is free, that legitimises them ripping off other people's work without providing credit.I do have a paid subscription to London Centric as they produce original and well researched articles and have pointed out ChiswickW4's unattributed copy and paste job to them.  It will be up to London Centric if they want to pursue this with the owners of ChiswickW4.

Michael Robinson ● 8d

"Indeed considering the outrageous price ChiswickW4 charge their readers nowadays, along with the additionalcharge to  use this forum, the number of people they must employ and the obscene profits they must clearly begenerating such an oversight is clearly unforgivable."Hush, hush - if Rachel Thieves hears about it she will be slapping a tax on social media websites.

Richard Greenhough ● 8d

" Yes, the ChiswickW4 article appears to have used liberal use of ctrl-c, ctrl-v copying and pasting from London Centric without attributing the source."Indeed considering the outrageous price ChiswickW4 charge their readers nowadays, along with the additional charge to  use this forum, the number of people they must employ and the obscene profits they must clearly be generating such an oversight is clearly unforgivable.Have you tried asking for your money back ?michael adams

Michael Adams ● 8d

Dead in the water without the congestion charge exemption.I had thought about using Zipcar for appointments at the Chelsea and Westminster hospital as the accessible public transport service is poor. Journey time is about 45 minutes each way which works out to c.£40Factor in congestion charge and it's £53.50Uber is now cheaper with non surge pricing and is door-to-door.

N V Brooks ● 9d

If demand exists then someone will fill in the gap. Reading between the lines of the article, it looks like Zipcar geared its business model towards central London and invested heavily in EVs. Andrew has shown how relatively cheap it was to use these cars to drive into central London. For some with passengers it would work out cheaper than public transport. There is no reason that the Mayor or the central London boroughs should, as a matter of policy subsidise this kind of usage. The Congestion Charge is just that, not an emissions charge and it was always understood that at some point EVs would be included. This probably came a bit more quickly that Zipcar thought but it seems like the error was theirs.What is needed now is more coordination from the outer boroughs, where car-sharing can deliver real benefits, to form policies which encourages the remaining players to invest more.

Mark Evans ● 9d

Oh the irony...The mayor botches car-share.And Hounslow botches cycling.I know several market traders who used ZipCar exclusively, either cars or vans. It was a way of not having the cost of a needed vehicle on the books. Given the 600,000 ZipCar customers mentioned, where will that demand shift? Will it shift? Will the additional cost to businesses just be another other of the thousand cuts they dodge? Will people buy more cars? Will e-bikes become even more prominent?

David Lesniak ● 9d

I guess it was fine unless one got caught in a traffic snarl up on the way. All too frequent given the persistent roadworks across London. Easy enough to click round to that second hour.As Nigel Brooks suggests, it’s probably the end of the Congestion Charge exemption that’s been the final nail in the Zipcar coffin.

Simon Hayes ● 9d

It was capped at £13.50 per hour though, so the cost of a 45 minute journey was the same as an hour. If you hit an hour it would start charging 32p a minute for the next 45ish minutes.Plus, you could leave it in any residents only bay in Westminster, and electric vehicles were exempt from the congestion charge.Early morning or in the evening it was an option I used reasonably frequently ( maybe 2-3 times per month on average).

Andrew Jones ● 9d

At 32p a minute it’s likely the cost was a deterrent for many, given how long it takes to get anywhere in London now.

Simon Hayes ● 9d

Thanks for clarifying.Rest assured that any I left in Ealing were parked considerately. My experience in recent months has been that there are fewer flexcars available in the morning near where I live in LBHF, which correlates to your observations.

Andrew Jones ● 9d

No, these were the ones that could be parked at any location in Ealing. They had no contract with Hounslow so would be left on border roads. In recent months there’s been a noticeable decline in seeing them so presumably they’ve been reducing the number of vehicles available.The parking was pretty dreadful most of the time. If there were two spaces to take up, they would. Occasional drivers who seemed to lack spatial awareness or understand how parking spaces work.

Simon Hayes ● 9d

I presume that the ones that sat parked badly, for days at a time must have been the ones that you had to bring back to the pickup location, at the end of the hire period.The ones where you could pick up in one location and leave it in another (FlexCar) were quite well used from my experience.They would almost always work out cheaper than a taxi/minicab, and very occasionally, cheaper than a couple of bus fares.Mind you, if driving to Chiswick, I always had to leave them parked in the Ealing bit, you couldn't finish a FlexCar trip in Hounslow.

Andrew Jones ● 9d

Sad that we are losing another business.

Janice Evans ● 9d

Zipcar obviously didn’t want to subsidise the council transport coffers any longer, despite having half a million subscribers in London. They weren’t used anywhere near enough to make them truly viable for a proper business. Sat parked, usually badly, for days at a time in many locations.

Simon Hayes ● 9d

I never once drove into central London with a car club vehicle. Do we have any numbers on usage - I'd always assumed they would be more popular in outer London where the public transport options weren't so good. If people were using them to circumvent the congestion charge then this is against the whole purpose of them. Hopefully, outer London councils will get behind the remaining operators and incentivise them to fill the gap left by Zipcar.

Mark Evans ● 9d

This article on London Centric caught my eye ...https://www.londoncentric.media/p/terry-ball-the-snail-farmer-his-mafia

Andrew Jones ● 9d

Yes, the ChiswickW4 article appears to have used liberal use of ctrl-c, ctrl-v copying and pasting from London Centric without attributing the source.

Michael Robinson ● 9d

The final nail in the coffin is the proposed congestion charge for zero emission/ hybrid vehicles. An instant £13.50 surcharge on the hire cost. Affordable if defrayed against a day's fares for a minicab, expensive for a one-off trip.I really can't envisage anyone wanting to operate a car club in London anymore.

N V Brooks ● 9d

There is an article about this in the ever informative Londoncentric:https://www.londoncentric.media/

David Turner ● 9d