Forum Topic

Katherine Dunne fails (again)

I was bemused by the puff piece on Katherine done by Chiswick Calendar. Bit surprised they didn't ask her favorite color and if she believed in unicorns. Did we need glamor shots?? Also chuckled at the coverage of the recent area forum with feedback from Katherine's colleague, Alexandra Crush.  So many issues: "Element of competition" In order for there to be competition the competitors must provide the same service. They do not. Per the article, Voi services Ealing. That's it. Forest doesn't. This necessitates needing two different suppliers that can charge whatever they like because their competitor cannot provide the same service. The concept of checks and balances does not exist. Simple economics. "truncated journeys weren't a key issue" Surely Katherine should have choked on these words. "50% less Voi than promised" and "Forest immediately increases fees after getting contract" Is it me, or have the suppliers failed to comply with the terms of the contract? If so, what's the escape clause? If a painter fails to provide the works promised in a contract, the owner would have a court case in their favor. The contract becomes null and void. "no incentive for Lime to comply" False. Wandsworth dealt with this issue by rounding up non-compliant bikes and held them ransom. When I asked Katherine about this her response was "there is no regulation." Apparently she can't do what others clearly can. "commercially sensitive information" With spending public money, how is the public not made aware of any expenditure value? There is talk about competition on an open market yet oddly the market is secret. "I wasn't there but I'm sure it was raised" Why wasn't she there and simply how could she not know??? This begs the question can a petition be started for her removal? She fails repeatedly and there is no reason anyone should endure another two years of this dreadful and unnecessary policy she has put in place. She is clearly out of her league. As for any e-bike/scooter being left where it doesn't belong, what is the line item value for Hounslow Highways to remove them? Has it exceeded it's allowance? My bet is any increase in fees Katherine dreamt of by awarding Voi and Forest is erased (and then some) by the increase in costs for HH to remove illegal vehicles now dumped by three different vendors. Not to mention, the public can't use any Lime bike found in Hounslow. So those cost of removing them is wholly borne by Hounslow. To wit on Glebe Street this AM:

David Lesniak ● 12d43 Comments

Jeremy, I'm perplexed you think Cllr Dunne has been truthful.Chiswick Calendar reported Katherine Dunne has not been forthright let alone honest in her replies.You're giving a free pass to someone who has misrepresented facts and destroyed cycling as we knew it in the borough.  If, as you say, the money excuse is valid for imploding a cycling initiative, why just two vendors? Why not three? Surely three would earn the council more than two? Basic maths.More to the point I think we all deserve accurate, open and honest reporting on the numbers. What did Lime pay? What are Forest and Voi paying now? What is the net "increase"? What is the additional cost of collecting abandoned Lime equipment by the council? Only then can we know what the real value is. Even then, my belief is we're talking the equivalent of earning about 50p against the budget needs and shortfalls created by LBH. Any so-called increase will do nothing to erase chronic budget issues created by the current leadership. And that doesn't even include attendant costs to business lost due to half the number of cycle trips being within the borough. That's just plain dumb.

David Lesniak ● 1d

Think we will have to agree to differ here. We all concur on the basic facts. I am prepared to give Cllr Dunne credit for having sincerely held opinions and giving a truthful answer to a difficult question. I can understand that others may be disinclined to do that. However, this doesn't mean that I don't at the same time believe that, if she did succeed in her bid to become leader of the council and got to implement policies based on her dogma, it would be a disaster for the borough.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 1d

It’s been a known fact for years now that many people hiring these bikes are selfish morons who care not a lot about other commuters, shoppers, pedestrians or observing the laws of the road and parking.  It’s become increasingly more dangerous since hire pedal bikes have morphed into e-bikes.

Steve Taylor ● 3d

There was a Santander bike in the lobby area of Morrisons in Brentford on Thursday. Tucked in by the shopping trollies. No reason or explanation. Just parked there, inside the shop.

Simon Hayes ● 3d

Just dumped in Clayponds Lane,in Brentford,for over a week ... opposite the old "Pottery Arms" pub.What could be it's history ... and who does one report to?

Jim Lawes ● 3d

Have Hounslow failed their residents? Well they have certainly failed the ones who used to use the Lime bikes, and are left with a considerably inferior 'solution' by all accounts. Years ago, a manager of mine told me something, and the scales fell from my eyes."Just because I say something, it doesn't mean I believe it's true."All of a sudden, my work environment made a hell of a lot more sense.Even if revenue was the chief driver for the new contracts, Hounslow would never have said it was.

Andrew Jones ● 4d

By all means, Jeremy, defend yourself.But the blather from LBH wasn't about money. The blather was about controlling out-of-bound e-bikes and customer choice. Neither of which have happened. Failure. Only way to look at it.

David Lesniak ● 4d

As I've said previously I think it is wrong to talk in terms of failure if this decision was taken for financial reasons. Cllr Dunne has admitted this is the case. Perhaps the impact on e-bike services was greater than anticipated and nobody could argue that it has been anything other than profoundly negative but covering the shortfall in the budget has been given priority and policy by this yardstick will have been successful if the revenue harvested by the council increases.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 5d

Yesterday while sitting outside Ole & Steen I witnessed a flock of 7 Lime Bikes wafting along the cycle lane, presumably on their Autumnal migration to Hammersmith. I smiled wistfully, happy that they would be living a long and happy life in lands anew.

Chris Blackwell ● 5d

"Cllr Dunne is not lying when she says there is no easy route back for Lime"Precisely why Katherine Dunne is a failure.If what you say is true, Jeremy, that's her handiwork setting the terms of the contract with untested suppliers. When you hire someone there is always a trial period. Basic contract bits and bobs. "never actually specified"Again, pure failure. This would have been easy to determine based on Lime user numbers. Basic maths and intent would mean providing the equivalent plus some for the growth they all went on about. Instead they shot themselves in the foot.

David Lesniak ● 5d

A large proportion of people are younger people who live in flats or other properties with no space to safely store a bike whether an e-bike or not. They are also squeezed by high rents, student debt and other costs which means the purchase and maintenance of a bike (which has a high chance of being stolen) would be a significant part of their disposable income. That's why there was such an explosion of use of Lime since it was introduced to the area, it was a massively popular service because it was easy to find a bike at all points of a journey. Old men with free bus passes might not have much use for it but they need to remember that not everybody's transport needs are the same as theirs.

Mark Evans ● 5d

The notion of an escape clause is a bit of a myth, anything that might exist in the small print of the written contract would be outweighed by the explicit and public admission that the arrangement is exclusive. If Lime were to come back, it would almost certainly have to be with Voi and Forest's agreement. I can't comment on the other issue but I think it is pretty clear Cllr Dunne is not lying when she says there is no easy route back for Lime.As for a breach of contract get out - that seems to have also been ruled out. Despite the new operators having delivered fewer bikes than they said they would when they took over, it was never actually specified in the contract and a council officer confirmed at the recent meeting in Bedford Park that they were meeting the standards required.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 6d

Took a Forest from Hammersmith to Chiswick.Along the way stopped to talk to one of the Hounslow Highway guys we've been friendly with for years. Just outside Chateau. As we were talking, for about 5-10 minutes, I heard/felt the bike do something though what I wasn't sure what. Until I went to continue. The app said I was mid-ride, the bike went dark. Wouldn't move. I tried putting it off the cycle lane at a cycle rack but couldn't shut down the ride meaning I'd continue to be charged indefinitely. I had to push the bike to Duke's Ave and shut it down there.Why?Why make it so stupidly difficult to use your product?Especially when your product fails the customer?Increasingly I get the feeling Forest is akin to some bored kids idling about until one of them says, "hey, let's put on a show."

David Lesniak ● 6d

Any contract worth the paper it's written on would have an escape clause, Jeremy.Given the abject failure of Forest to deliver the sgoods/services as promised, surely there is an out before two-years are up.

David Lesniak ● 6d

With the reported number of bike thefts, why would anyone want to use their own ebike unless they had secure parking at both ends of their journey ? That is the advantage of hire bikes.

Richard Greenhough ● 6d

Er..buy an ebike?

Keith Iddon ● 6d

"All this angst and confusion in Hounslow.Catch a bus or drive or buy your own bike."Agreed, but there are occassions when one doesn't want to arrive at a destination red-faced and wheezing like an asthmatic accordion. With the eBike doing all the hard work one can maintain the illusion of athletic vigour.

Chris Blackwell ● 6d

All this angst and confusion in Hounslow. Catch a bus or drive or buy your own bike.

Steve Taylor ● 6d

Cllr Dunne is explicit on this point. She says, "Hounslow Council have not entered any new agreement with Lime and there have been no amendments to the existing contracts with Forest and Voi."Lime acted independently and without the permission of Hounslow Council. Possibly Voi and Forest insisted on the No Go Zone as part of the deal but even if they did, I don't see what recourse they have, Hounslow has no legal means to stop Lime repowering their bikes in the borough. This does mean that Voi and Forest will see lower returns on their contracts than expected. As they both seem to be struggling with stock levels this will further slow down the inadequate supply of bikes and might even lead to some being moved to other boroughs where they are generating a higher return.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 6d

What is in the contracts? If I were the CEO of Forest or VOI, I'm not sure I'd be happy this far into the contract that Lime can now pass through the borough of which ive signed a deal with the council and for £s in return. That change removes bike hire for the forest and Voi in certain bike journeys or part journeys.

Julian Pavey ● 6d

An interesting item on ITV London news this evening about a cyclist seriously injured when a Forest bike user crashed into him in Kingston. Poor chap had severe head injury (though wasn’t wearing a helmet.)Seems Forest has public liability insurance but it only covers damage to its bikes. Not very satisfactory considering how badly many of these e-bikes are ridden.

Simon Hayes ● 6d

That's quite a serious charge. My own recollection is that it was left ambiguous as to who insisted on the Lime power downs but if it was Hounslow and a senior councillor said that it wasn't, then at the very least they should be investigated for a potential breach of the councillors' code of conduct. The article does not specify when Cllr Dunne blamed Lime for the shutdown and it is surprising no link was provided if it was reported on. On the contract issue (and with a 'not a lawyer' warning), whatever the written contract states, if Voi and Forest have reasonable grounds to believe the arrangement is exclusive then that is just as binding as any written contract. This announcement from Hounslow effectively constrains them from bringing back Lime for now:https://www.hounslow.gov.uk/news/article/10074/hounslow-selects-forest-and-voi-as-new-e-bike-operators-hounslowIf they did try to do so, the matter would probably end up in the courts unless they came to some sort of mutually agreed solution.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 7d

Interesting article on CHISWICK CALENDER here, apparently Lime did not self-sabotage itself by turning the bikes off in Chiswick but rather it was a specific request from Hounslow (and presumably Katherine Dunne) that they be switched off!Hounslow lying? Surely not!And as if that were not enough there is a clause in the contract stating that no eBike company has exclusivity in the borough and that further contracts can be issued AT ANY TIME! So why are we not going back to Lime then?Anyway, article here: https://chiswickcalendar.co.uk/poor-service-to-e-bike-users-raises-big-questions-about-lb-hounslows-management-of-e-bike-rentals/?mc_cid=a7b2ac8bb5&mc_eid=04a0081f35

Chris Blackwell ● 7d

Forest is hit or miss, whether it works with the app or not

Julian Pavey ● 8d

>How is that possible?most people think it's gyroscopic force from the wheels, but it's not... :)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cNmUNHSBac

Paul James ● 8d

To add to the mix I have just seen a man bowling along through Grove Park on a Santander bike. How is that possible?

Bruce Hammal ● 8d

"Why bother? Cycling is now a nuisance when it shouldn't be."Absolutely agree. Our eldest tried to get an eBike yesterday (Duke's Avenue) and gave up. Nothing worked and the one Lime that was there wasn't showing up on his Lime app.Getting people to cycle in the first place was hard enough and eBikes were the answer when you wanted to go longer distances and didn't want to arrive all sweaty.Locally it's the normal bike for me and for longer distances I'll take the car until this gets sorted.

Chris Blackwell ● 8d

Yesterday I tried to get a Forest from Kensington. After about 10 meters it was clear the bike failed. I tried six or so times to get another always getting a red alert of some sort. Got a Lime. As I was riding home I decided to experiment with leaving the bike in a designated bay in W4 as we've all seen others do. I was also curious to see if I'd get a ticket and how much it would be. I pulled in next to another Lime by the GBK. My ride wouldn't shut down so had to relocate. Odd that one bike did and I couldn't but back into Hammersmith I went. Turns out you can no longer leave bikes at the border by St Peter's Square so I had to go to Ravenscourt to leave the bike (thus proving management of Lime is possible seeing Hammersmith can). Tried another Forest but still no luck. I then walked to Netheravon to get a Voi where I noticed a Lime amidst the mess. In the end it cost my about £9 to get home after using three apps and three bikes. Plus a walk.Why bother? Cycling is now a nuisance when it shouldn't be.  Katherine Dunne fails.

David Lesniak ● 8d

I hope this happened without the rider onboard.

Julian Pavey ● 8d

What Chris said.Katherine wasn't forced into anything. An effective leader would lead, innovate and/or negotiate. Enforce. Let's see what else...all things Katherine did not do. This is what we want in a Leader of the Council???No.

David Lesniak ● 9d

"That must mean the financial committment for any borough wishing to introduce dockless bikes is much bigger than it was."Hounslow must demonstrate that the installation of the cycle lane was not merely a box-ticking exercise to secure Government funding. It is unacceptable that, having already invested significant public funds in the cycle lane, they have now rendered it unusable for many, apparently as a cost-saving measure. Prioritising budget cuts over pollution reduction sends the wrong message and undermines public confidence in the council's climate commitments.The absence of a coherent, city-wide strategy is evident. This piecemeal approach is failing residents. It is precisely why I believe Transport for London (TfL) should assume full control of e-bike operations across London without delay. While contractual obligations may exist, such matters are not insurmountable when weighed against the urgent need to address climate and transport challenges.This week, I will be making two journeys by car, journeys I would have made by Lime Bike had the system been functioning. That is a direct environmental consequence of inaction.If the council is truly serious about reducing emissions and encouraging active travel, resolving this issue must be treated as an immediate priority.

Chris Blackwell ● 9d

David, I think you missed my key point that Cllr Dunne was probably forced into making this decision. It would have been obvious that the change would result in a significant decline in e-bike usage in the area but the report that will have been presented to cabinet would have detailed the financial benefits of the change. Possibly she was told that she had to accept it or resign.As for docked bikes, I share Julian's scepticism. Initially I was surprised TfL were prepared to invest so much in a Cycleway in Chiswick and not extend the Santander scheme at least to Turnham Green and Gunnersbury but on further consideration, looking at the apparent lack of usage of the bays at Glenthorne Road in Hammersmith, this system doesn't seem to work as well outside central London. I haven't seen overall ride number but these kind of bikes are becoming an increasingly rare site in central London whereas the dockless variety are everywhere. That must mean the financial committment for any borough wishing to introduce dockless bikes is much bigger than it was.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 9d

Jeremy, it is unfathomable for me to think Katherine is a true believer of these policies. She destroyed them. She didn't fight. She didn't defend. She didn't innovate. She didn't lead. She bulldozed. That's it. Bulldozed. Without a care as to the impact to her constituents. Didn't consider truncated rides????The only ones benefiting from this new Lime policy are those from OUTSIDE the borough. She failed everyone INSIDE the borough. The ones she has been elected to represent. That's an epic fail. We're not paying her to help others. We're paying her to help and represent us. And she has not. I also believe it will cost us more as pressure mounts on Hounslow Highways to remove any offending vehicle (assuming they will which is not to discredit them). So what? The increase in revenue from Forest goes out the window and then some to collect Lime bikes that can't be hired? That's as stupid as stupid gets. I've always advocated for docking stations. Was accused of being anti-cyclist for it (go figure). That was prior to the arrival of e-bikes. At this point I think docking is outdated unless a large swath of space is dedicated for that purpose. Hammersmith has something under the flyover. Not the best example. But something like it. In my view, it could and should be part of a parking structure if Sainsbury's redeveloped. Dedicate an entire floor to centralized bike parking and divvy it up per vendor so all can service the borough. Win/Win. E-bikes. E-cars. Scooters. Cars. Vans. Charging stations. Gardens. That's what a modern car park looks like.But without user and vendor accountability with appropriate metrics and reporting we will only ever have the mess that Katherine Dunne created. She would be a miserable leader and the council would be worse off for it.An example of Labour's continued cluelessness: Hanif Khan being re-selected for the next election. Need we scrape the barrel?

David Lesniak ● 10d

David, I’m not calling for formality in all exchanges, rather pointing out the potential pitfalls of this kind of editorial approach. That said, probably better to have any inherent bias out in the open and the straight bat coverage on ChiswickW4.com doesn’t reveal as much about what is really going on as does John Dale’s Brentford TV site. While much of this may be gossip, there is no denying that it gives the best insight into the faction ridden Labour party in Hounslow. The picture painted there is Cllr Dunne is trying to put together a leadership challenge before next May.There is much to admire about her in my view and she possibly could make a good go of the job. Unlike most of her colleagues, who see active travel as a cloak for revenue raising opportunities, she is a true believer and is not afraid to articulate potentially unpopular policies. You and I might not like that she is convinced making life more difficult for motorist is a good outcome but we should at least give her credit for integrity for saying out loud what many will not.Doing a soft soap interview to distance herself from a policy which she plainly didn’t agree with, looks very like a first move in a challenge to Shantanu Rajawat. According to Brentford TV, the existing leader has a significant influence over which candidates will be selected to stand next time around and has already culled many potential opponents. It is speculated that the relationship between Cllr Dunne and Cllr Rajawat is poor and he did remove her as Deputy Leader. Leaving her in place at transport and then forcing her to implement a policy which she didn’t want to and alienated many of her former supporters including turning celebrity chum Jeremy Vine into a venomous critic, could have been an act of Machiavellian brilliance.She can’t reverse the Lime decision even if she does win the leadership, but she does need to act soon if she is going to make a challenge. It may be that the current leader’s grip on the party is unbreakable and she has to put her head down and suck it up.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 10d

Also, you end up using a lot more space on the road to accomodate the same number of bikes. Where I work has an area set aside for rental e-bikes to be parked ... there are (often) 10s of them in this area. If each one was in a dock, that number of bikes simply couldn't be accomodated.

Andrew Jones ● 10d

Unfortunately, you don't. Reason, the distance between bike docks and where people want to end their journey. That is, unless you have bike docks on every other road or multiple docks on long roads. Ive got to bike docks where you can't get your bike to dock unless you move a bike out of the docking station because it's full, and the nearest docking station makes my usage of the bike for the journey A-B redundant

Julian Pavey ● 11d

You stop bikes being parked in the wrong place by using bike docks.

Chris Blackwell ● 11d

Hi David,My suggestion of having places marked on residential roads was to try and ensure this was where bikes ended up getting parked, rather than on pavements of residential roads. But without consequences arising if you don't do it, we get the situation we have, as you rightly point out.You've probably hit the nail on the head, how do you ensure people leave the bikes in the correct places? I'd asked a similar question in another thread ... who ensures the bike companies enforce the parking restrictions and their terms and condtions? If only Hounslow had tried following Wandsworth's example, rather than shrugging their shoulders and giving Lime, as you said, 'a free pass', and subsequently burning the pass and appointing different, less reliable 'suppliers'.

Andrew Jones ● 11d

"not the best look to designate politicians by their first name" Jeremy, it's 2025. Let's dispense with needless formality and cut to the chase. People, the ones in charge, should and need to be held to account. And if they can't tolerate robust scrutiny they have no place in today's democratic machine. Katherine could have easily helped plug any hole if she chose to collect Lime bikes and fine them accordingly as other councils have done. She chose not to. She imploded a system that worked and provided no tenable solution. As for Andrew's comment on parking, perhaps he should open his eyes. Marking up bays to park e-bikes has already been done. That system doesn't work because it fails to take into consideration human behavior. There is also, to my knowledge, no way for Hounslow to determine just how many fines any vendor has issued to offenders. So, again, without accountability from anyone, the system is destined to fail. If a vendor doesn't have to pay the price, why would they? Why risk losing customers if the vendor doesn't have to report anything? They are given a free pass. Snapshot this morning in my corner of W4 shows about 20 Lime devices. All are supposed to be reported to Hounslow Highways to be collected. How dumb is this? That means on a daily/weekly./monthly basis HH will charge the council for this service. Across the entire borough. This was foisted upon HH mid-contract so the cost will be above and beyond and that ultimately comes back to all of us. People think they can always call HH to fix everything. HH is on a fixed contract. Deviation from those terms have a cost. Poor decision. Poor management. And we pay for this? No. This poor performance in any commercial sector would be met with expulsion. Truly penny wise and pound foolish and destroying a network in the process. Utterly avoidable. Katherine could easily check the app herself — or have a minion do it — and report it back to any vendor or she could liaise with HH to resolve. But she simply washes her hands of it all. She is incapable of managing the situation. Inept.  And new vendors continue to arrive:

David Lesniak ● 11d

I think this is both unfair on the author of the article and Katherine Dunne. Although the tone might seem to be over familiar and it is not the best look to designate politicians by their first name if you want to appear balanced, the questions asked were good ones. The answers also were more frank and revealing than we have had previously from the council on the issue. They have determined that a major decline in the standard of e-bike provision is offset by the hole in the council's accounts being a bit smaller.The interview confirms what we probably already knew - this was a decision made primarily for finanical reasons and the council felt forced to ditch Lime because there was more money on offer from other providers. There is no real attempt here to pretend any different and while some of the justifications are a bit weak, the admission has already been made. We are getting an insight into the reality of local government which is that money is exceptionally tight and hard decisions need to be made.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 12d

Rental eBikes are here to stay. Mark up the equivalent of one or two car sized bays in residential streets where you can park the rental bikes, and that will hugely help the issue of bikes being left on pavements obstructing those who are less able to negotiate them.

Andrew Jones ● 12d

She is a complete no-hoper. Clearly didn’t think through her policies or her comments.Light at the end of the tunnel, maybe. When this is made a pan-London issue then these half-wits will be taken out of the equation.OK, waiting for the inevitable reposte here (and fair enough) but the issue becomes “London-Political”. How about a Mayoral candidate proposing to eradicate this two wheeled frenzy pox? There’s probably enough dispersed people and pressure groups that could work better at a larger level to eradicate these things.

Keith Welham ● 12d

I cannot understand how Hounslow has been allowed to get away with this. We had a system with Lime that wasn't perfect but with a few tweaks would have been.The bottom line should be this:Is there a bike available?Will it work?Does the app work?Can I ride the bike to my destination?Can I park it when I get there?ALL of the above worked with Lime.I suspect that Katherine Dunne is not an eBike user or that if she is she never hs to ride to Chiswick.

Chris Blackwell ● 12d