Forum Topic

Turnham Green Station

How lovely it is to have the Piccadilly Line stopping at Turnham Green this weekend. Now all we need is to have the Piccadilly and District Lines stopping simultaneously and permanently, and Turnham Green would be the new Baron's Court... it's a Turnham Dream, I know!

Richard Evans ● 24d24 Comments

The government will be desperate for good news to share at the time of the Autumn budget statement which is inevitably going to contain a lot of pain and this would seem an obvious thing to announce at this time. I presume Sir Sadiq can't go ahead without government position despite, as Mark rightly points out, the borrowing would not be part of the national debt.As an aside, we haven't heard much about the 'Structures Fund' recently so their could be some good news from that as well.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 9d

They might not have £700 million in the bank but they do have the capacity to borrow more given that they are generating an operating surplus. As I understand it such borrowing wouldn't affect the UK's credit rating so it would be a win win for the government in that it would stimulate economic growth.

Mark Evans ● 13d

When you say 'they', Bhavesh, do you mean TfL? If so, it isn't going to happen anytime soon; they don't have the 700-or-so million it'll cost.

Mike Smith ● 15d

What about extending Piccadilly Line stopping out of peak times?During peak times of passengers arriving at Turnham Green I used to have to flatten myself myself against the wall at the bottom of the stairs while passengers piled/ran down before venturing up the stairs. There was also no space on the pavement to walk.  Post pandemic has this changed/levelled out more with more flexi hours?We've often walked to or from another local station to avoid the crush There are so many stations that need step free access and I understand TfL looks for third party funding as at Southfields (see Wikipedia) to raise funds for infrastructure.

Philippa Bond ● 16d

Transport at Turnham Green is dreadful regarding Piccadilly line. They need to fund the improvements for signalling so this can be sorted. Ongoing problem for years. I wish our councillors and local MP push to help this problem.

Bhavesh Gohil ● 17d

That's probably the perfect analogy.You are probably right about government funding but there may be scope to pay for the signalling through borrowing directly by TfL. The anticipated boost to revenue would make this feasible.

Mark Evans ● 20d

However, other Michael is probably right to say they won't change much while the new stock is bedding in.Nope, they won't change anything until the new signalling is in [Spoiler: the Government hasn't offered to pay for it as would be the case in most other world cities]. We'll have a Lambo on (1995) Corsa wheels until someone pays for new signalling.

Mike Smith ● 22d

As I understand it the clear run from Hammersmith and Acton Town currently ensures that there are no log jams in the western section of the line which impact the busy central section. The trains can either get a clear run through this point or be stacked at various signal blocks so that Hammersmith is always clear. However, at the lower off peak regularity in the evening, this is less necessary and it would make no difference if the Turnham Green stop came earlier and capacity would be unaffected because regularity through the central section would be indentical.However, other Michael is probably right to say they won't change much while the new stock is bedding in.

Mark Evans ● 22d

Thanks to all.At least now I know.

Keith Iddon ● 22d

" London Underground has never got near the theoretical timetable of a train every two minutes."Indeed. That figure was simply chosen for purposes of illustration.The basic point being that with a fixed number of trains the greater the proportion of their time they spend stationary in stations (even to the extent of just one extra station) the lower their carrying capacity.Or something.  michael adams

Michael Adams ● 22d

There isn't a strong argument for Piccadilly line stopping at Turnham Green if that would mean a reduction in service frequency and reduction in numbers of people carried by the line at peak times.The main focus of London Underground will be introducing the new Piccadilly line trains which is meant to start next year and I think will take at least a year to replace the existing trains.  The new trains can carry more people but they will still be held up by slower older trains in front until a large proportion of old trains have been replaced.Elizabeth line experience has shown there are highly likely to be issues and challenges introducing new trains so that will be the thing occupying London Underground management.

Michael Robinson ● 22d

This is a good explanation with the caveat that London Underground has never got near the theoretical timetable of a train every two minutes. The way it was explained to me was that there were two signal blocks between Hammersmith and Turnham Green at which trains can be held if the train in front hasn't cleared Turnham Green. This is not enough to avoid trains being held up back into the West End if there are by some miracle 30 trains per hour or even a more possible 24 trains per hour. However, when the number of trains drops as they decline from the peak level of service then it is perfectly feasible. There is little or no difference in the number of trains on the line from 8.30pm to 10.30pm when they are allowed to stop at Turnham Green.The new stock with its improved deceleration and acceleration will allow more leeway to increase the service at Turnham Green even without improved signalling.The change of policy from LU to provide a service at Turnham Green during District line engineering works and, increasingly during District Line disruption does seem to me to be significant. As Chris pointed out, the prime objective certainly used to be to guarantee a reliable service to Heathrow at the expense of local commuters. With the opening of the Lizzie line, the proportion of airport bound travellers on the Piccadilly line will have fallen so perhaps this imperative has reduced. This seems to have brought about less rigid thinking with regard to Turnham Green.I don't think LU will do anything about Turnham Green until we have a pathway to the signalling upgrade on the Piccadilly line but when this is in place, there would be a strong argument for increasing the regularity of the service at Turnham Green ahead of the full service that the signals would bring.

Mark Evans ● 22d

Yes, normally the Piccadilly line stops at Turnham Green before 6:45 and after 22:45.  There are fewer trains in service then as the number ramps up and down at the beginning and end of the day.  Because there are fewer trains in service, the additional stop can be accommodated.An additional stop at peak time would mean a reduction in the overall number of people who can be transported on the line at that time.I believe the new Piccadilly line trains will have better acceleration and deceleration than the current 40+ year old stock so that plus new signalling will allow an additional stop while maintaining service frequency.  Also the new trains can carry more people with walk-through carriages.

Michael Robinson ● 22d

" Excuse me asking but I am in the dark as to why all trains don't routinely stop at Turnham Green and all other stations come to that"a) To make best use of resources all transports systems will already deploy the maximum number of trains and crews at peak times. I.e there will be no more trains available.b) Its impossible to make the trains any longer c) With a theoretical service interval of 30 say tph passengers at Hammersmith or Acton Town can expect a train every 2 mins. If trains spent a minute at Turnham Green this would be reduced to 3 minutes and only 20 trains per hour. As there are no further trains and crews available to fill the gap or extra carriages to accomodate the extra passengers d) Which I don't think passengers on already crowded peak hour trains would much appreciate.i.e with the same number of trains you'd have very train spending extra minutes at TGT every day rather than ferrying passengers around, michael adams  

Michael Adams ● 22d

Two things I believe have been mentioned in the past.If you add a stop, then with the same number of trains running the service you will reduce the peak service rate. To ensure you don’t have a lower peak rate, you need an additional train in service at peak times.I believe signalling has also been previously given as a reason why it couldn’t be done - whether a) that was in fact true and b) it is still the case now, I have no idea, I don’t work in that trade, but I’m prepared to believe a signalling upgrade might be needed.

Andrew Jones ● 23d

As has been discussed elsewhere, even if Piccadilly Line trains only stop at Turnham Green 'for a minute or so', the following train would have to be held back or spaced out further to allow for the stopped train to move on, and so on, thus reducing the overall service frequency on the line. Now, when the planned signaling upgrade comes in...

Peter Evans ● 23d

What a silly reason in my opinion.It would make life so much easier for locals wishing to go to or from Heathrow if trains stopped there.It doesn't take more than a minute or so for a train to stop at a station to allow people on or off.

Keith Iddon ● 23d

One of the reasons that Piccadilly line does not stop at Turnham Green is that it would slow down services to Heathrow.I have suggested they should stop the trains going to and from Uxbridge at Turnham Green so as not to slow Heathrow trains.

Chris Lucy ● 23d

Excuse me asking but I am in the dark as to why all trains don't routinely stop at Turnham Green and all other stations come to that.What is the reason?

Keith Iddon ● 23d

I took the Piccadilly Line from Turnham Green yesterday, to get to Victoria (a relatively simple journey, in normal circumstances, but a change at Green Park wouldn't be too bad. The wait was about a minute, but the train travelled slowly and by the time we left Earl's Court, it was absolutely packed, with full platforms everywhere else. It was then announced at South Kensington that the train would now be terminating at Hyde Park Corner and taken out of service. When we got there, it was announced that there would be no service between Hyde Park and Cockfosters, so we should make other arrangements. It took 8 minutes to get along the platform to the exit, as it was so full, and I ended up walking to Victoria, as buses were also full by this time. TfL. Totally...... Ludicrous!

Richard Evans ● 23d

I was in Hammersmith yesterday and used Citymapper to find out when the next bus back to Chiswick was but it pointed out that getting the tube would be so much quicker (and the same price more or less). I'd been aware that the District line was down but had forgotten the Piccadilly line was running.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 23d

Stamford Brook only has 3 platforms !

Roland Bolowski ● 23d

I would expect that the number of people using Turnham Green (whether starting or ending their journeys, or changing trains is vastly higher than the other two Stations mentioned) As someone who lives closer to Stamford Brook, I would still prefer the Piccadilly line to stop at Turnham Green out of the 3 stations mentioned.Doubt it is likely to happen anytime soon of course for all the reasons that have been mentioned before in many posts

Andrew Jones ● 23d

Though you do realise the aspirations of both Ravenscourt Park and Stamford brook residents will be heightened substantially.

Mark Frost ● 23d