Forum Topic

Labour getting desperate?

Despite having more seats in the house than you can shake a stick at,now they want to snaffle the votes of 16 and 17 year olds.I don't think this is a good move and I think it's a cynical measure.They can't buy alcohol,get married,get a mortgage,join the armed forces without the consent of parents and have very little life experience in many cases.Still,the way Labour are going,the move may backfire on them,you never know.

Keith Iddon ● 104d119 Comments

'form'? 'from'. Sorry about that.

Brian Coyle ● 5d

France & Germany are NOT doing well at the moment so perhaps we are best out of it……….single market was a good idea but the EU just kept pushing the boundaries.

Jayne Thorburn ● 9d

Thanks for the clarification Sam. I'm expecting some sort of response form Steve pretty soon.

Brian Coyle ● 9d

Like yourself Steve, I am not 'incredibly thick or senile'. You should know that by now, surely? Anyway my carer is on holiday, but not in an EU country, thank goodness.

Brian Coyle ● 9d

Im afraid the copy and paste of a report in 2023 from Cambridge Econometrics on behalf of the GLA is based around Brexit and forecasts going up to yr 2035. I you take each section and study YR24-25, much relates to reasons other than Brexit. Maybe you can let them of the first 2 years as things do happen in the world after a report.

Julian Pavey ● 10d

What would you expect otherwise from a unaccountable and corrupt organisation, Janet? And why would anyone in their right frame of mind, want to be governed by and from a foreign country? Where's the sense in that? We fought battles and wars precisely to escape from that type of subjugation and tyranny. Can we vote these individuals out of office, and if so what is the exact procedure for doing so? I can't find any information about how to do this. Any ideas?

Brian Coyle ● 10d

The UK trading did not fair as well as other EU Members either, think we were 7th at the time although we paid more than other members and everyrequest from us was ignored.

Janice Evans ● 11d

Indeed so Janice; being outside has absolved GB from paying into a recovery scheme titled Next Generation EU- an annual subscription totaling £800b. Our share of the payout, plus the subscription charge would amount to about £190b (£190,000,000,000) savings per annum.Plus you can bet GB would have been expected to be one of the bigger contributors.

Denis I. Fox ● 11d

We also had Covid and a War to cope with.

Janice Evans ● 11d

The UK has 1.8m fewer jobs now that it would have been had Brexit not happened – a drop of 4.8 per cent. There are approximately 290,000 fewer jobs in London in 2023 compared to a scenario in which Brexit did not occur.·        There are 523,000 fewer jobs in construction nationwide, with 81,000 less in London under this scenario.·        There are 388,000 fewer jobs in financial services nationwide, with 92,000 less in London under this scenario.·        The average Briton is nearly £2,000 worse off, while the average Londoner is nearly £3,400 worse off as a result of Brexit. ·        UK real Gross Value Added (GVA)- a measure of the size of the economy- is approximately £140bn less in 2023 than it would have been had the UK opted to remain in the Customs Union and Single Market - a drop of six per cent. The capital’s real GVA is more than £30bn less in 2023 under this scenario.·        This economic damage is set to increase should the UK retain its current relationship with Europe. For example, by 2035, the UK’s real GVA would be about £311 billion lower (10.1 per cent) than had it not left the EU. London’s real GVA would be about £63bn lower. * Brexit has also made the cost-of-living crisis more severe in the UK. City Hall analysis shows that 30% of the increase in food prices between December 2019 and March 2023 could be attributed to the effects of Brexit, and other research from the LSE confirms this by showing that Brexit added an average of £210 to household food bills over the two years to the end of 2021, costing UK consumers a total of £5.8 billion.”

Steve Taylor ● 11d

Go figure Steve.Along with an army of Leavers, you constantly blame Brexit for every perceived downturn in our economy.I doubt whether you have the stomach to read Gully Foyle's excellent book titled "75 Brexit Benefits": If not, please give your bleating a rest.In 1975 I voted to come out of the Common Market, and never once complained when the people voted decisively to stay in.I respected democracy you see.

Denis I. Fox ● 11d

For the sake of clarity I assume that when you say that the "economy [is]£140 billion smaller" you mean that it estimated that it is £140 billion smaller than its would have been if we had stayed in the EU. This £140bn approximates to 4% of 2024's GDP. ONS figures show that by the end of Q2 2025 the UK economy had grown by 4.5% since Brexit whilst the EU economy had grown by 6%.For those not used to dealing in large numbers in 2024 the UK GDP was £2.884 trillion i.e. £2,884,000,000,000

Sam Hearn ● 11d

“Brexit has been an unmitigated disaster for this country's economy.Chancellor Rachel Reeves: "There is no doubting that the impact of Brexit is severe and long lasting"Our most recent polling shows that over three-fifths of Brits now view Brexit as a failure - and the damage to the economy is the main reason why. Since Brexit, we have been collecting all of the most recent facts and figures that illustrate the true Cost of Brexit. • The economy £140 billion smaller • 2 billion extra pieces of paperwork for British business • 4,000 fewer EU doctors working in the NHS”

Steve Taylor ● 13d

Now you’re just being very silly, Brian. Or are you just incredibly thick or senile? Ask your carer to reply for you.

Steve Taylor ● 14d

What you really mean Steve, is that you voted to remain in the EU, for some strange reason, and are upset that you lost, and you've run out of toys to throw out of you pram.

Brian Coyle ● 14d

I’ve already told you that I don’t answer stupid questions.

Steve Taylor ● 16d

You've gone a bit quiet Steve, very unlike you.

Brian Coyle ● 17d

Hilarious David! The only problem is, you couldn't lower it far enough.

Brian Coyle ● 19d

Perhaps you'd be kind enough to answer my simple straightforward question. Can't see what the problem is.

Brian Coyle ● 22d

What an incredibly stupid question.

Steve Taylor ● 22d

So Steve, which currency would you prefer to use in order to do your day to day shopping - the euro or the pound?

Brian Coyle ● 22d

I see you've shied away from answering the question Steve?

Brian Coyle ● 24d

Hopefully, lots of people will vote for Reform UK. Who else are they likely to vote for?

Brian Coyle ● 27d

So which is it Steve?

Brian Coyle ● 27d

I'm sure I read somewhere that a certain Euan Blair runs a company that supplies ID cards. The Labour party wouldn't, would they?

Peter King ● 28d

So what's your answer Steve?

Brian Coyle ● 28d

Would this by any chance be the same hole that caused many worried voters to donate shed loads of shovels to assist in the digging process?

Brian Coyle ● 28d

"Look how well it's worked in Germany and France."Isn't the French ID card system one of the reasons why the boat people don't want to stay there ?

Richard Greenhough ● 29d

Agree with Peter, it will make no difference to illegals working.  I'm not bothered if we have ID cards or not.

Janice Evans ● 29d

It’ll be as safe as it already is. You’re on NHS records, Tax Records, DVLA Records, Bank Records, Uber Records, Mobile Phone Records, etc etc etc. if you’re going to be paranoid about an ID Card I hope you don’t dream of ever getting a Passport or Drivers Licence or ever open a Bank Account!

Steve Taylor ● 29d

It's depressing that the reason Labour gives for bringing in ID cards is to respond to Reform's obsession with immigration.  And if that's the reason, then it's totally uneconomic to issue cards to millions of people just because of a few thousand 'illegals'.When Blair first floated the idea some years ago, ID cards were intended to 'improve public access to public services', as indeed they do in the many other countries, and is a far more positive reason.They won't make any difference to 'illegals' working in the 'shadow economy' as I doubt if any shadow employer will be at all bothered about seeing an ID card before they take someone on to pay them peanuts!

Peter Evans ● 29d

And of course all of your information on government data bases will be as safe as houses and be completely safe from missuse by the state and from those nasty hackers.

Keith Iddon ● 29d

Steve, seriously how will ID cards work? We have NI number for workers, the black economy pay cash how will ID cards make any difference? how will they help crime? there will be fake ID cards. Given our government’s inability to develop anything that works within budget is ID cards just another distraction tactic by Labour? Their lack of any immigration policy is ridiculous, control spending is non existent, the welfare bill is out of control, multiple MPs caught doing fraud in some shape or form, the list goes on…..

Jayne Thorburn ● 29d

I don’t care if you don’t accept that your culture is being swept away. I also don’t care if you are unable to accept the FACT that the UK has a bigger illegal immigration problem than either Germany or France, which is totally ridiculous considering that the UK is an island. ID Cards work. There’s no argument that they do not. They aren’t the total answer to our crime problems but they will go a long, long way to enforcing Law and Order and preventing illegal working and Benefit Crime as well as illegal delivery driving.  ID Cards provide limitless benefits to an orderly society.

Steve Taylor ● 29d

I don't accept your point about my culture being 'swept away' at all.So how is 'law and order' getting on in Germany,France and all the other countries that have had ID cards for years? Surely due to the length of time they have all had them,crime is virtually non existent now in those places and illegal immigration and working at a minimum.

Keith Iddon ● 29d

“ It goes against the all ideas of individuality,privacy and freedom,some of the cornerstones of our culture.”You have to accept that the ‘cornerstones of our culture’ have been swept away by the flood of illegal immigration’. Get over it and accept that things will change. ID cards are being rolled out across the globe. As usual, the UK is last to implement systems gat work for the benefit of law and order.

Steve Taylor ● 29d

Nice to see you copied my obvious minor typo.I wonder why though.

Keith Iddon ● 29d

"We haven't been told what to do by any foreign  power since 1066"well since 1973 haha

Davy Jones ● 29d

I think the readiness with which people in Europe accept having to carry ID cards has something to do with the hangovers from two world wars and having the odd tin pot dictator take over your country for a few years,either through the ballot box or by invasion.Quite a few countries were subjugated by the USSR where not carrying your ID meant real problems with the authorities.We haven't been told what to do by any foreign  power since 1066,and I find the idea of having to carry proof of who I am around to please anyone completely alien and un -British.It goes against the all ideas of individuality,privacy and freedom,some of the cornerstones of our culture.

Keith Iddon ● 29d

I’m 100% in favour of ID Cards. They work wonders in other countries regarding Law & Order and they would work here too. They need to be made compulsory to produce whenever demanded by an officer of the law. However, if Joe Public will refuse to vote Labour purely because of this issue, I can live without an ID Card if it means living without a Labour government. Starmer doesn’t deserve another single day in office after the multiple blunders he’s made.

Steve Taylor ● 29d

Don’t forget the 1 in and 1 out policy to France let’s not talk about 900 in a day from boats. Labour are laughable if they really believe any of their policies will work. Of course ID card will make all the difference what a load of rubbish if they can fake passports they can fake ID’s. More state control…..let’s not forget Labour think they can spend and keep taxing that won’t work either they will be booted out. The only people who will vote for them are those on benefits perhaps that is why they won’t do anything about reducing the ridiculous high welfare spend.

Jayne Thorburn ● 29d

The petition against ID cards had past 2.5 million signatures and the plans were only announced a few days ago.I have the feeling that Labour are in a hole and can't stop digging.

Keith Iddon ● 29d

Reform’s greatest strength is that it channels public frustration with Labour and the Conservatives into a clear, simple promise of change, especially on immigration and cost of living.If I were a betting man this a one horse race.

Tony Antares ● 29d

Don't worry,Starmer will have all your bank details,inside leg measurement and shoe size on the new digital cards and has us all stitched up like a kipper, that will definitely stop those illegals from coming.Look how well it's worked in Germany and France.

Keith Iddon ● 29d

Labour too weak and wet  to do anything about illegal immigration. What’s it now? About 900 boat people a day coming here with total impunity while border forces have to sit and watch because we have a government refusing to take any action.

Steve Taylor ● 29d

Keir calling Reform racist due to their ideas for managing immigration is not a clever move. I am sure most people who support Reform are not racists the country is full and our infrastructure in all its forms can not cope with uncontrolled immigration. Let’s not talk about cost to taxpayers, unable to speak English therefore unable to integrate, work etc. our NHS is not free for all from wherever people come from, it’s unable to cope for those who have paid into the service. So yes Labour is desperate.

Jayne Thorburn ● 29d

So Steve, which currency would you prefer to use in order to do your day to day shopping - the euro or the pound?

Brian Coyle ● 30d

So can I assume that you would far prefer to do your shopping with euros?

Brian Coyle ● 30d

Lisa Nandy just comes across as incredibly thick and unconvincing. She always seems to put across that she doesn’t know what she is talking about and is totally out of her depth. Astounding that she got a fairly senior post. Starmer must be desperate.

Steve Taylor ● 32d

Streeting has a very marginal seat, around 500 majority, and has a real chance of being ousted in the next election. His constituency, Ilfird North, is prime Reform territory.As for digital ID, how does that work if one doesn’t have a smartphone? Will there be a paper/plastic alternative for those of working age who choose not to go digital?

Simon Hayes ● 32d

I watched half of Question Time last night and Lisa Nandy did he level best to sell this idea but she didn't sound convincing in my opinion.She is at least better on TV than the apallingly inept Lucy Powell,but there's not much in it.The most convincing Labour mouthpiece is Wes Streeting in my opinion,but I suppose he gets a bit of a bye as we all love the NHS and he seems a straight talker in so much as any one can be one as a politician.The audience had a roughly 70/30 split against these cards after a show of hands.

Keith Iddon ● 33d

Because of Starmer's thumping majority it is possible he might get away with this latest wheeze.The public is aware, from having read of state intervention in George Orwell's 1984, of the disruption to our liberty a Britcard would bring.Culture secretary of State Lisa Nandy tries to keep a straight face in convincing us this scheme would help deter the boatmen, but it wont. Yet another damp squid after the "one in one out" failure.Starmer and his cabinet must be the only people wishing for bad weather this coming weekend, to give the RNII a break and different headlines in the Sunday newsprint.

Denis I. Fox ● 33d

It's not as if those countries with an ID card are crime and illegal migrant free zones,quite the opposite.Successive governments have shown they couldn't organise a teddy bears picnic regarding huge and extremely expensive projects,which this will be,and like many I don't like governmental nosiness into my life nor do I trust them to keep my informaation safe from hackers.So yes,it is specious to suggest that this is needed to tackle illegal immigration,they haven't tried anything else exceot the laughable attempt to 'smash the gangs'(who have seemingly upped their game as a challenge and are winning) and the even more laughable 'one in one out' policy which is more of a 'one in and as many as they can cram into boats that should have been stopped on the French coast'.I get the feeling that this government after 14 months in office is already clutching at straws for ideas.

Keith Iddon ● 33d

There isn't going to be an election tomorrow.

David Burke ● 33d

'I find that 'if you haven't broken the law you have nothing to fear' argument specious in the extreme.One of the things I value in this country is that we don't have an ID card and we have the right to chose how we live most aspects of our lives.This is using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.'On balance I agree with you, I remember when the DBS checks first started, in the first instance part of 'safeguarding' for those people dealing with children and vulnerable adults. Apart from the whole industry that mushroomed up around this, and the time that it could take, it also got to the point where people volunteering in various capacities found that one check wasn't enough. If you volunteered at more than one club for instance - you then had to get a DBS check at everyone, hence a lot of places lost a lot of people who really got very fed-up with this overkill. Then came the update service, which meant for an initial fee and also an annual one as well, you could register your DBS certificate to save constantly having to apply all over again. Then of course someone else had a wheeze that in education recruitment that would not do, so a new DBS check had to be carried out at yet more expense. Then everyone and his dog decided if they were employing someone - perhaps a cleaner - then they should avail themselves of this. This is just an example of what starts off as a seemingly reasonable scheme - that morphs into a money spinning and largely ineffective palaver. That is my fear of digital I.D. - assurances that you won't have to keep producing it and not to worry too much - don't wash. It won't be long before someone comes up with a brilliant idea of making money from it somehow, or some overly officious twerp in a high-vis starts demanding to  have your I.D. produced for him/her to inspect for some spurious reason. 

Vanessa Smith ● 33d

"One thing though, what about those of us without a smart 'phone?"Vanessa, you are missing the point. This proposal is designed to help smart phone manufacturers and retailers increase their profits. I wonder if they donate to the Labour party ? Regarding your son's issues when applying for jobs, it won't avoid the need for references or DBS checks. Presumably if he is still living at home your utility bills are in your name or your partners so I guess if it included his address it might help to have a digital ID, but if he is a driver or learner that info (plus full name and DoB) are on his driving licence anyway.

Richard Greenhough ● 33d

Would Digital ID stop identity theft, or make it easier.

Janice Evans ● 33d

Probably made the same mistake as Boris and made wrong choices, or is that done deliberately I wonder at times.

Janice Evans ● 33d

It’s not specious at all. British values have been abused. The majority of people can see that. We have been taken for a ride and the criminals are laughing. Hopefully Starmer will get this through Parliament very quickly. It’s the best thing he is thinking of doing since becoming PM. It’s too little to late for him though as yesterdays poll puts Reform as 100% certain to form a government if there was an election tomorrow. Interesting too how many of Labour’s cabinet would lose their seats. Quite incredible although those mentioned should never have been appointed to Cabinet positions in the first place. Starmer made huge blunders.

Steve Taylor ● 33d

I find that 'if you haven't broken the law you have nothing to fear' argument specious in the extreme.One of the things I value in this country is that we don't have an ID card and we have the right to chose how we live most aspects of our lives.This is using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

Keith Iddon ● 33d

Steve, say achtung to the Police State. You have nothing to fear

Davy Jones ● 33d

ID cards won’t solve our massive illegal immigration problem but they will be a big help to fight it and to fight crime. They are a huge benefit to all countries which make them compulsory. Let’s hope Starmer puts them in place with extreme urgency. Brilliant! People who don’t break the law have nothing to fear.

Steve Taylor ● 33d

Google it, Brian, and be amazed. Although I’m surprised you even need to ask. The info out there is overwhelmingly and quite mind boggling.

Steve Taylor ● 33d

I am not overly keen on this idea of digital I.D. either. However, seeing what my son has to go through when applying for jobs I can see it from his point of view. What with references, proof of address from a utility bill (no-one apparently seems to know they are online these days) DBS checks, take ages and aren't worth a carrot, birth certificate and on and on. Perhaps having all your personal info. all rolled up into one thing may be beneficial? One thing though, what about those of us without a smart 'phone?

Vanessa Smith ● 33d

Your good self, Steve.

Brian Coyle ● 33d

Seems although ID cards in Italy and France(to name only two)have done diddly squat to solve their illegal immigrant problem,Labour seems to think it will do just that here.I am dead against this,I want less government in my life,not more.Especially when you I see the calibre of the people who haverepresented government for as long as I can remember.It wouldn't surprise me if there were some erious demos against this draconian measure.1984 was a warning not an aspiration.

Keith Iddon ● 33d

Not sure of the exact numbers but I have come across younger people who voted Brexit but agree many older folk did too and have now died.

Jayne Thorburn ● 33d

Who are you asking?

Steve Taylor ● 34d

In what way exactly was the country ruined for future generations?

Brian Coyle ● 34d

https://www.facebook.com/TheIndependentOnline/videos/confronting-the-disastrous-reality-of-brexit-for-uk-travellers/739215365736531/

Steve Taylor ● 101d

You don’t exactly shine a light at the party, Jim.  Pick a subject as I’m sure you’ll get some takers.

Steve Taylor ● 101d

How convincing is Steve ... even after all his thousands of postings?He must be wearing himself down!Just saying!New topics welcome.

Jim Lawes ● 101d

Thanks for answering the questions in a crystal clear manner Steve. I would have replied last night to thank you if I'd spotted this post at the time.

Andrew Jones ● 101d

Oh dear Steve, do you not realise it was people of your generation that were more responsible for the UK voting to leave the EU than the youngsters?https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45098550Never mind eh? You just need to get over it - I have.

Andrew Jones ● 101d

“ Do you think that we should be taxing the ‘wealthy’ more by the way? I ask because you appear to be criticising this government for not having the balls to do so.”100% yes. “Do you think that Labour shouldn’t have restored the WFP to those who are now again eligible for it?”100% yes.  And if you are also going to ask if I think Labour shouldn’t have U-turned on Disability Benefits.  100% yes. They could have used some of those savings to pay the overworked, underpaid Resident Doctors the increases they have asked for and deserve. These people have studied for years and have £100k student loans and they are the backbone of our NHS.

Steve Taylor ● 101d

Giving 16 year olds the opportunity to decide the fate of adults is the same as giving morons like you the opportunity to vote in a referendum like you did when  you voted for Brexit and ruined the country for future generations.

Steve Taylor ● 101d

The UK hasn't had the worst educated, most immature and ignorant children in Europe since you were in school, Steve. If chumps like you get to vote, maybe they should lower the voting age even further so that these "worst educated" kids (who I assume have IQs as low as yours) can vote too.

Dave Mannisa ● 101d

If you call valid and justified observation and comment an insult,well that's up to you.I am still waiting for you to enlighten me as to who you think our democracy is working so well for at the moment.

Keith Iddon ● 102d

"Vnessa, just for clarity I should have said that no one can patronise like a London Labour supporter."Well, when you can't dream up a decent reply just descend to insults - pathetic. Churchill got it just about right.'Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…’

Vanessa Smith ● 102d

The turnout will be negligible.Normal sixteen year olds are only interested in Exams, Music, Sport, Fashion and Sex.Not necessarily in that order.

Denis I. Fox ● 102d

Vnessa, just for clarity I should have said that no one can patronise like a London Labour supporter.

Keith Iddon ● 102d

Vanessa, I'm all for giving people a chance and was very hopeful it would go well,, however the sharing of wealth etc., never seems to work and itseems to be the poorest they are taking from, and the lack of heating allowance did make it difficult for the 'working people' whatever that is because They had to help their parents financially.

Janice Evans ● 102d

Vanessa,before I comment further will you answerthe question I asked please?Keith,Try reading what  I said - what I didn't say was that everything was 'working wonderfully well for everyone' but.....Yes, not all is rosy but let's give it a chance, the more people who engage fully with the political and electoral process the better for a healthy and continuing democratic way of life.

Vanessa Smith ● 102d

As the UK has the worst educated children in Europe and, probably, the most immature and ignorant, it is laughable that this government wants to give these kids a vote. It’s yet another stupid idea from Starmer.  However, it will probably shock him when he realises how many inarticulate kids, who can barely string a sentence together and  who don’t follow news events, will vote Reform because Reform have a simplistic, easy to follow, agenda which even the most uneducated can follow.  It’s shameful that the fate of adults is in the hands of children.

Steve Taylor ● 102d

Agree 100% with Vanessa. For me, 16-17 year olds should absolutely be allowed to vote, as they are in Wales and Scotland. We have ruined the planet for the next generation and they should absolutely have a bigger say in what happens to actually try and save the planet from the mess we have left them to deal with. As a species we are completely screwed, and the only people who are actually going to have a chance of sorting the mess out are the next few generations of under-25s.

Dave Mannisa ● 102d

Did you bother to look at the breakdown Steve?Among some people there WAS a majority for increased taxes e.g. people who identified as supporting Labout and the Lib Dems.In very stark contrast to those who identified as supporting the Conservatives or Reform.Now this is a (lazy) sweeping generalisation but I’d hazard a guess that the median income of someone who votes Conservative is higher than the median income of someone who votes Labour. An assumption I agree.Do you think that we should be taxing the ‘wealthy’ more by the way? I ask because you appear to be criticising this government for not having the balls to do so. Do you think that Labour shouldn’t have restored the WFP to those who are now again eligible for it? Please do say because that’s what you appear to be suggesting.FWIW I would support higher rates of income tax for those in the fortunate position of having to pay tax at the higher rates, but I also am in favour of the U-turn on WFPs.What about you Steve?

Andrew Jones ● 102d

Vanessa,before I comment further will you answerthe question I asked please?

Keith Iddon ● 102d

,,,ewww...a herd of gammons ranting rabid.Cheer-up you neo-Cnuts, you are history, welcome in the new!Id don expect he can see that clearly, his head is too far up his own fundament 🤣  . . . or Kemi's

Roland Bolowski ● 102d

They expected Conservatives to do absolutely everything.

Janice Evans ● 102d

Votes for 16 year olds?The only political education pupils get will be left wing propaganda: schools, colleges and universities are rife with it. Not what I consider a balanced education.Teenagers are attracted to TikTok and Instagram tech (both devices used successively by Farage & Reform), so Sir Keir's gerrymandering could backfire.

Denis I. Fox ● 102d

It’s not about a YouGov poll asking a few citizens if they’d mind paying more taxes. Of course they would say no. This is after all a country which was shortsighted enough to vote for Brexit. This is about a government which doesn’t stop whinging about a black hole but is too terrified to start taxing the wealthy.  It’s totally ridiculous.  Whinge, whinge, whinge but no action. They won’t tax the rich, they won’t stop paying the majority of pensioners the WFP and they won’t stop benefits payments to millions of people who are perfectly capable of working. They won’t stop illegal immigration and they won’t stop paying £billions to unscrupulous hotel owners to house asylum seekers. They won’t do much for the good of the country will they!

Steve Taylor ● 102d

"Perhaps Vanessa should go up to Bradford,or any number of forgotten northern towns and tell the citizens that they are lucky they don't live somewhere else.I wonder how that patronising nonsense would go down with them.No one can patronise like a true Labour supporter"What is wrong with you? I had no intention of 'patronising' anyone, I'm just sick of people whingeing on when regardless of what you think we are STILL a democracy - we get to vote people in and out, something denied to millions around the world. I don't believe I said it was perfect - nothing ever is, but if we want things then we have to learn they need to be paid for and that means higher taxes. We hear politicians banging on about a 'low tax economy' as if that's the answer to everything, it isn't. The only other way is for those who can afford it to pay privately - so if you want a situation like the healthcare system in the U.S. - fine, most of us don't but we do want our NHS to be properly funded and to deliver when we need it to, ditto our schools, our transport, our water, our roads, then it is going to cost and we are ALL going to have to contribute more. As a Labour supporter I am disappointed with the first year of this government, but I hope you can tell me what it was exactly that in their 14 years the Tories did for those 'forgotten northern towns'? Yet, you seem to expect the Labour party to  perform miracles after ONE year.

Vanessa Smith ● 102d

https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/50820-britons-say-public-services-are-bad-but-they-arent-willing-to-pay-more-to-fix-them

Andrew Jones ● 102d

Perhaps Vanessa should go up to Bradford,or any number of forgotten northern towns and tell the citizens that they are lucky they don't live somewhere else.I wonder how that patronising nonsense would go down with them.No one can patronise like a true Labour supporter.

Keith Iddon ● 102d

“ those that have more wealth than they need to live more than comfortably are so resistant to spreading the wealth around.”But you don’t know that do you You make assumptions, probably because you don’t want to pay more tax, but we will only know if wealthy people object to paying a fair tax if this misfit, incompetent government actually tried it but they are too damned cowardly and weak.

Steve Taylor ● 102d

If you don't like the government (which clearly you don't) you can always vote them out at the next general election.Freedoms have been eroded over recent years - true and things aren't wonderful. But they are better than in plenty of other countries.A lot of countries that rank high in the quality of life are in scandanavia, and plenty of them have high tax regimes.A problem with the UK is that a lot of those that have more wealth than they need to live more than comfortably are so resistant to spreading the wealth around.

Andrew Jones ● 103d

Please explain why you think this is a 'working democracy'and for whom it is working so wonderfully.

Keith Iddon ● 103d

Bloody Hell - what a bunch of miseries! Just take a look around the world of today - Hungary, Belarus, Russia, Turkey even the good old U.S. and then thank your lucky stars you live in the U.K. I wouldn't swap with any of that lot and also a lot more countries, whatever our problems, what we do have is a working democracy not populism. Although that could change if people don't wake up to that prat Farage and his rag-tag bunch of misfits and pillocks. Yes, not all is rosy but let's give it a chance, the more people who engage fully with the political and electoral process the better for a healthy and continuing democratic way of life.

Vanessa Smith ● 103d

When their grandparents lost out it affects the whole family and the grandchildren lose out also because the parents have to help out the grandparents and they won't want that again.

Janice Evans ● 103d

I think that's right, they will be two years ahead in becoming disillusioned. Then they will probably stop voting.

Nicholas Beard ● 103d

Whoever they end up voting for,if they can be bothered that is,there will be policies galore aimed at them by all the major parties in their manifestos.I suppose if they start voting a little earlier than the rest of us,at least they will have the advantage of a couple more years before they become completely disillusioned with all of them.

Keith Iddon ● 103d

Harold Wilson lowered the voting age to 18 in 1969 in the expectation it would get more votes for Labour. He then called the 1970 election in June twelve days before my 18th birthday. I recall sitting with my MP's daughter (who was 18 that August) agreeing what we thought of him for disenfranchising us by calling the election early (he could have waited until March 1971). We were delighted that he then lost. Hopefully this move will backfire on Keir Starmer in the same way, as long as it doesn't result in lots of young people voting for Nigel Farage and Reform UK (or whatever party he is leading by the time of the next election).

Richard Greenhough ● 103d

personally at first I was not interested in voting for years,

Janice Evans ● 103d

According to online sources, the UK was the first democratic country to lower the age you could vote at to 18 ( in 1969, immediately prior to that the age you could vote at was 21).Perhaps in years to come, the voting age in other democracies will follow the UK's lead.

Andrew Jones ● 103d

I'm not wild about this idea but I voted for the first time in 1974 at the age of 18 after that became the age of majority and I expect lots of older people thought we were too young to vote back then.

Susan Kelly ● 103d

Talking social media, TikTok alone, Nigel Farage has got more TikTok followers than every other MP combined.Maybe we and labour have got the thinking wrong if it is labour waving the white flag just a year in for votes

Julian Pavey ● 103d

Can't help thinking that spoiled ballot papers will increase.No doubt, endless social media operations will be enacted on that front

Julian Pavey ● 103d

I have no problem with this as I don't think it will make much difference. some won't turn up, Some will vote wisely others will not and few will just turn up and doodle a cock and balls on the ballot paper but at least they turned up at the ballot box.

Brian Green ● 103d

If I lived in Hounslow or Ealing, I think I’d have got fed up with the incumbent council some time ago.In Hammersmith though, I’m more than happy with the approach of our (Labour run) Council. Not perfect of course, but no council ever is.

Andrew Jones ● 103d

Even as a Labour supporter all my life I do sympathise with your view, but when have they ever had anything like a decent, capable, gutsy opposition? And God alone knows they give them enough ammunition, have you seen what's going on at the moment? It absolutely stinks of out and out cronyism not to mention very dodgy behaviour. Yet where is the opposition on all this? Constant control is not good or healthy for any party, and this lot are showing that in spades.

Vanessa Smith ● 103d

Having voted at every election possible for the last 61 years I am beginning to wonder why I bother. We only change  from one poor Government to another. Hounslow has been run by a permanent Labour Group since it was formed, apart from a few years.

Chris Dakers ● 103d

Some teens have said they are now realising why they never got in for 14years.

Janice Evans ● 103d

I agree 100% Vanessa. For local elections I would actually add a hefty surcharge to the council tax of residents of wards where less than 50% of registered voters actually voted. I would in addition include a "none-of-the-above" box on the ballot paper. Where none-of-the-above actually received most votes I would appoint a local governemnt officer to deal with the complaints and queries of residents of the ward.

Sam Hearn ● 103d

Lowering the voting age will bring England in line with Scotland and Wales. For so many people politics is a once every couple of years exercise in total disinterest for the main part. The more people understand and get involved the better, experience and age can be useful, but we need people from all backgrounds bringing new ideas forward. If it gets people off their backsides to vote and having a better understanding of the backgrounds and various processes of politics, and the differing policies of the political parties that can only be to the good of the country.

Vanessa Smith ● 104d

Given that those who have just turned 16 at the date of the next general election will be over the current voting age of 18 for potentially 60% of the next parliamentary term, I’m broadly in support of the measure.They have to live with the consequences of the choice of government and how their taxes are spent just the same way as those who are over 18

Andrew Jones ● 104d

That's not really accurate. The 2005 commitment was to have a vote on a specific EU Constitutional Act, not membership. That was scrapped after other countries voted against it so Labour was no longer bound by its manifesto.There is a strong argument that they should have held a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty as it served much the same purpose as the Constitutional Act but they were never obliged to do so. You are wrong that there would have been a yes vote - it would almost certainly have been rejected. However, although Euroscepticism was growing at this point, the country was still substantially in favour of EU membership. You may be right that a refusal to have a vote on the Lisbon Treaty increased anti-EU feeling that led to Brexit or it could be that a No vote would have meant that we made the disastrous decision to leave even sooner meaning we would be even poorer than we are now.

Francis Rowe ● 104d

No,I zm saying that they pick and chose which bits of their manifesto they honour after being elected on that manifesto.Perhaps it's one reason so few people voted for them at the last election.

Keith Iddon ● 104d

So you are saying they have chosen not to disenfranchise the entire nation this time?

Francis Rowe ● 104d

I know,but it wasn't the only thing in it.A referendum on the EU was in their 2005 manifesto,but they chose to disenfranchise the entire nation from that after they were re- elected.Ironically,we would probably have voted to remain a member had they held it.It seems that their machinations on democracy are as half baked as they are cynical.

Keith Iddon ● 104d

It was in their manifesto therefore over 18s voted for it.

Francis Rowe ● 104d