Forum Topic

Should Santander Cycles Come to Chiswick? Have Your Say

Hello,I'm reaching out to see if others in the Chiswick area would support an expansion of the Santander Cycles scheme (TfL's cycle hire) further west into our neighbourhood.At the moment, the nearest docking stations are still some distance away (closest to my knowledge is Ravenscourt Park), and I believe there’s a strong case for bringing them into Chiswick — not only to provide a more reliable and tidier alternative to free-floating rental bikes, but also to encourage active travel, support local journeys, reduce pavement clutter, and better integrate our area with London’s wider public transport and cycling network.I’ve contacted Transport for London about this, and they’ve advised that future expansion is possible, but it depends on local demand and, importantly, pressure from residents and our local representatives.I understand we’re currently focused on the post office issue (which I’ve also supported), but I wondered if others here feel that Santander Cycles would be a valuable addition to the area. If so, please let me know — either here or by private message. I’m happy to coordinate with anyone interested in helping to push this forward, depending on how much community support there is.Thanks for reading,Luke

Luke Lapira ● 18d29 Comments

For a memory jog ... it started with Mobikes introduced without consultation:24th January 2018: Mobike Hire Scheme Extended In Chiswick. Dockless bike hire scheme being trialled by Hounslow borough: https://www.chiswickw4.com/default.asp?section=info&page=mobike02.htm9th February 2018: Are Mobikes Cluttering Up Chiswick? Complaints that bikes from the new scheme are being randomly left on streets: https://www.chiswickw4.com/default.asp?section=info&page=mobike03.htm23rd November 2018: Messy Mobikes Maddening Chiswick Residents. Bikes from the rental scheme are causing street clutter say some: https://www.chiswickw4.com/default.asp?section=info&page=mobike04.htm5th December 2018: Hounslow Council To Review The Mobikes Bike Scheme. Say it 'has not consistently met' Council's aspirations during trial period: https://www.chiswickw4.com/default.asp?section=info&page=mobike05.htm7th December 2018: Confusion Over Future Of Dockless Bikes In Chiswick. New electric Lime bikes appear as Council says it is reviewing Mobike contract: https://www.chiswickw4.com/default.asp?section=info&page=mobike06.htm6th February 2019: Hounslow Council To Launch Consultation On Mobikes. Local anger over lack of controls over the dockless bikesharing scheme: https://www.chiswickw4.com/default.asp?section=info&page=mobike08.htmEtc

Joanna Biddolph ● 7d

Unfortunately there is or also has been an element of unruly behaviour in the parking and treatment of some of these bikes.  They don't all climb lampposts and fall over all on their own.

Philippa Bond ● 7d

I generally am proudly 'woke' the new word for caring about the community.There is (I understand) no legal capacity for councils to refuse or manage rental bikes. Limes arrived in Chis/Brentford with no council involvement at all, and as I said earlier they did not cause much objection (in Brentford anyway). In Chiswick they are bikes so bound to be an outrageous part of the war against cars.LBH negotiated with Lime and agreed the 'parks' in an attempt to control them. It has been a big issue in parts of Central London where the pavements are narrower and more congested and the bikes more common. As again I said before, last I heard there is a proposal from London Councils and/or the GLA to make parking places common across London but that will be controversial. The further out you get the less people like the control. Personally I don't think the 'parking pens' work well in outer London (no opinion on central areas) but better management of the providers is needed.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwypeqd2pewo

Guy Lambert ● 8d

While I welcome regulation to promote the safety of, and responsible parking by hire bike users, surprised that there haven't been any complaints telling us about wokeness, bureaucracy and nanny state intefering with people's freedom of choice.

Andrew Jones ● 8d

See parliamentary committee report into illegal e-bikes released yesterday.https://appgcw.org/resources/inquiries/unregulated-and-unsafe-the-threat-of-illegal-e-bikes/Worth reading.  It also raises the contributory factor of the unregulated gig economy.  As to chances of recommendations making it into legislation, dunno...I believe the English Devolution Bill at the early stages of progressing through parliament, will also contain powers for regulation of dockless bike operators.  At the moment, TfL and boroughs don't have the powers to have a common set of requirements for dockless bike operators in London.

Michael Robinson ● 8d

Well there are more fines for Lime and Forest dockless bikes.https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/lime-forest-bike-hire-fines-tfl-crackdown-abandoned-ebikes-red-routes-b1233117.htmlThere's a suggestion that rules should be London wide.  It would be good if all cyclists knew the rules of the road.  As a result of fewer cyclists being taught cycling proficiency at school and then cars taking priority there has been a gap in the number of proficient cyclists with many not even stopping at red lights but just sailing through.

Philippa Bond ● 8d

As others have mentioned, what’s particularly depressing is the lack of any apparent regulation and enforcement against e-bikes generally, some of which are clearly as big and powerful as a moped yet need no licence to drive, and some of which burst into flames. This kind of free for all is an insult to the law-abiding public and only serves to undermine social cohesion.

Peter Evans ● 8d

It's a start anyway.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2lx5wy95go

Bruce Hammal ● 8d

It would be far better and less dangerous for us all if the pavements were swept so that there is much less chance of any randomly difficult plants taking root.Unfortunately with the number of cars that it seems are permanently parked in our streets it is rather difficult to sweep the gutters.  However there are some wonderful blue campanulas flowering all over the place just now joyfully decorating those gutters.There are even more claims being made against Monsanto/Bayer over weedkiller.https://www.consumershield.com/product-liability/roundup/what-cancers-are-included

Philippa Bond ● 8d

Apologies for the blank posts - I was attempting. to use the "new" website to add a photograph. Evidently it didn't work. Twice.The image was of a single, sad, fallen-over Lime Bike, being the sole occupant  of the Kinnaird Ave bay this morning. It was supposed to back up my claim that Lime Bikes  are well used in this location.The picture would have also illustrated the fine growth in wild grasses that are flourishing in Grove Park while we await the reintroduction of glyphosate.....

Bruce Hammal ● 8d

I'm not a fan of Lime or any of the other dockless schemes for personal use but it has to be admitted they are popular particularly with younger people. Santander bikes do have a lot of advantages over them including cost and not being an obstruction nuisance. The proliferation of companies in the dockless sector has increased further the number of bikes left around north Chiswick where the council isn't providing designated bays.A Santander dock at Turnham Green could make a big difference for someone working in central London even on a hybrid basis. If your commute takes less than an hour it would cost just 20 a month which would also include leisure use. You might want to pay the extra pound to unlock an e-bike for the way into work particularly for the slow climb up Holland Park Avenue. This would be a great way for some to test the idea a daily cycling commute before investing in their own bike particularly at this time of year with the good weather.

Mark Evans ● 8d

 Kinnaird Avenue this morning. Note the attractive backdrop of weed grasses. Some sort of camouflage perhaps?

Bruce Hammal ● 8d

 Kinnaird Avenue this morning. Note the attractive backdrop of weed grasses. Some sort of camouflage perhaps?

Bruce Hammal ● 8d

The Lime model of bike hire is flawed - a good idea badly implemented and managed. Hounslow Council should be reviewing the arrangement urgently - specifically the dangerous design of the bikes and the poor maintenance.

Bruce Hammal ● 8d

I most often go past Kinnaird during the day and I'm not as obsessed counting Limes as I sometimes think I am, so I bend the knee to your local intel! I do think the population of parks is surprisingly variable. The park in Dan Mason Drive sometimes has 30 bikes and sometimes (like yesterday) it has 3 when I pass. At other times it is more or less empty but there are 15 bikes on the footpath by the start of Chiswick bridge, which I imagine is 'near enough' in Lime's technology to be counted as properly parked.What is far worse than Lime (or Santander) bikes is the illegally overpowered electric bikes which are sold saying they cannot be used on public roads. The ads say there is a weedy version which may be legal (shock horror) but clearly the one to have is the overpowered monster.Also scooters openly sold everywhere from Currys to Tesco with a warning in small print that they are only for use away from public places.I use Lime bikes occasionally and appreciate them being available but they are very poorly maintained and the idea they are parked in a disciplined way is 'inaccurate'

Guy Lambert ● 8d

I don't know where Guy gets the idea that the Lime Bikes in Kinnaird Avenue aren't being used. The docking area is very often completely empty by late morning and tends to stay that way until the commuters return in the evening. On the other hand  I don't understand how sometimes there are bikes galore, spilling way beyond the designated parking bay, while if I were to attempt to park a bike even a small way outside the marked area the App would refuse to let me end the ride.One thing  is for sure - we don't want Limes AND Santander (or any other bike hire companies) fighting for street space. It should be one or the other.Meanwhile don't forget to take care when using Lime bikes - unless you fancy a broken leg. (See earlier thread which I'm surprised didn't generate more of a response.)

Bruce Hammal ● 8d

I haven't commented on bikes on this forum before (apart from the awful lanes).However, a lovely gentleman who lives a stone's throw from me spent last Saturday week in ChX hospital with a broken rib; reason, some young eejit rode his bike straight into the back of him when he was strolling merrily along the pavement on his way to the shops.This afternoon I cracked a joke with him and left him clutching hid rib in agony for laughing at it.Eeerghh...

Denis I. Fox ● 8d

Idiots riding at high speed on the pavement, bikes dumped any old how, baby gangstas hacking them to ride free, and such an unpleasant shade of green too!!

Davey Harris ● 8d

They have been tracking location from the start. Don't know whether it's Bluetooth or some other technology. If I try and park where I live it is a no parking area, though it no longer shows as that on their app (I'm sure it used to)If you look at their app there are dozens of Limes parked away from parking places. Many of them have no bikes, but some other parks have loads, especially in places where I suspect there is very little demand EG Kinnaird AVenue

Guy Lambert ● 9d

It will be interesting to see how well the new dockless parking systems work when they are introduced ie how well instructions are explained to and followed by users as well as an understanding by non-users as to what is supposed to be happening.  Has a timescale been announced for this?  (See Michael Robinson's post.)

Philippa Bond ● 10d

Last time I looked the reason Hounslow refused to take Santander Bikes was that it is very costly for the borough, whereas Lime etc uncontrolled can do what they like with no ability for boroughs to resist them. That's what we had for a while in Hounslow (mainly Chiswick in Brentford because that's where Lime see the demand) but the decision was made to have parking spaces which Lime are supposed to enforce (same as Camden and a lot of Inner London boroughs). Lime claim that 95% areproperly parked but I think that is 'inaccurate' to make the comment in parliamentary language.I believe there is an agreement across London Boroughs to move to the 'parking places' system across the whole Greater London. Personally I think that made matters worse. In all the time we had them in Brentford without controls I had one single complaint from residents. We had loads when the parking pens were started but they have died down. QUite often the parking pens in Brentford are empty.I think pens are sensible (whether Santander type of Lime pens) in heavily congested areas where uncontrolled bikes are really problematic. I don't think they work in outer London. By the way when I retrieved my (own) bike from the stands behind Gunnersbury last week I could not get to it without a detour because the pavement was blocked with 'illegally' parked Limes.

Guy Lambert ● 13d

So perhaps Santander needs to organise extra cycle parking and not necessarily cycles at the limits of its current reach - or do they do that already?  How much monitoring do they actually do?

Philippa Bond ● 13d

TfL haven't abandoned expansion of Santander bikes and continue to add docking stations if local authorities are keen to have them. It always seemed odd to me that such a large investment was made in C9 but the Santander network was never expanded to Chiswick. Maybe since then the proliferation of dockless bikes has lessened the need but they do come with a lot of disadvantages and aren't a perfect substitute.Santander bike use around Chiswick seems seasonal and you see them most along the river. Possibly people pick them up in Hammersmith and loop round the river back to Putney due a recommendation in a travel guide. Docking stations at Turnham Green station and near Kew Bridge would bring more of this traffic to the Chiswick area and the cost to commuters of using it as part of their journey would be offset by reducing the number of zones on the tube you needed to use. Seems to me perfectly feasible if there was a groundswell of support and the council had community infrastructure levy funds available to part pay for it. However, Michael's lack of interest suggest the local branch of the London Cycling Campaign wouldn't back the idea which would make it a lot more difficult to convince the council.

Mark Evans ● 13d

Another possible issue, looking at the live map, is the number of Santander bikes available at the docking stations from Hammersmith down to the bush ext. So many docked bikes but hardly any free docks if you want to end your journey.Is that possibly because the further you come west, the less they are being used? And if you get one from, say, Revenscourt Park to the bush, 8 docking stations have exactly 8 spaces for you to dock. You could get to the bush and have no place to dock your bike because they are already filled with bikes. You could hire one in Chiswick to go to Hammersmith and end up having to dock it 10 minutes away from where you want to go.Is that because, in reality, people are not using them further out? And the further you go into London, the more they are used by tourists.Not knocking your enthusiasm, but the further you come out of central London, the bigger the issue becomes in docking, which, in my view is a big flaw. You certainly can't go any more west.

Julian Pavey ● 18d

You all raise good points about the convenience of Lime and the demand for electric bikes. Of course, I understand it won't be everyone's cup of tea, but I see Santander Cycles as a complementary option: it’s more affordable for regular use (from £3.50 for a Day Pass with unlimited 60-minute rides, and even cheaper with an annual subscription), and the docking model helps avoid pavement clutter.(As a side note, some boroughs — such as Camden — enforce limited parking zones for services like Lime and Forest, which function much like docking stations, just without the physical infrastructure.)It’s also worth noting that Santander Cycles already operates in similar areas, such as Putney, which aren’t dramatically closer to central London than Chiswick. So it doesn’t seem unrealistic to make the case for a few well-placed docking stations here too. Of course, they require investment and won’t be viable on every street, but key locations — like Turnham Green, Chiswick High Road, or near the riverside — could make sense as part of a limited rollout.Reliable shared mobility options are important for supporting active travel, especially for those without space to store a bike or who are concerned about theft. So, while I recognise there are challenges, I’m interested in exploring whether there would be local support if the option were available — rather than focusing solely on why it might not work.

Luke Lapira ● 18d

From Hammersmith Station to here are 3 docking stations.Roughly a ten-minute walk between each of the 3 docking stations. And in total 5 electric bikes at the 3 docking stations.It would have worked prior to Lime but not now

Julian Pavey ● 18d

I think there is zero chance of Santander bikes coming to Chiswick.Fixed docking stations may be workable in central London where there is a high concentration of places people want to visit but that doesn't apply to outer London.  The docking stations have a cost to set them up and are "old" technology.  They were the only viable solution when the original Barclays scheme was set up 15 years ago but nobody starting out would use this method now.I believe the dockless bike companies will be introducing technology like bluetooth beacons to better enforce use of dockless bays and the cost and flexibility of that has large advantages over a fixed docking station.

Michael Robinson ● 18d

As we are not in central london and hire bikes have moved on over the years people in chiswick i guarantee want an electric bike to hire. Many use them to get to stations and back of a morning or evening.Santander would mean you have to go to the nearest docking station, and secondly, only 1 in 6 Santander bikes are electric.Why are Lime bikes popular? You can look on the map and find one near your doorstep. Then, you can ride to where you want to go, not where Santander put a docking station.Out here, docking stations would never work as you need thousands to get people to switch.That is the beauty of lime for most people. Electric for one and usage in where you can start and stop

Julian Pavey ● 18d

Lime already has an established hire bike network in Chiswick. You can also hire Bromptons in Chiswick. I don't see a need for a third operator TBH.

N V Brooks ● 18d