Forum Topic

The Enemy Within..

Traitor, Starmer, has only turned up to commemorate VE Day when he's doing all he can to destroy UK sovereignty, culture, businesses and the family..

Michael Brown ● 51d201 Comments

Totally agree. If any civil servant, local government employee or private sector employee is already drawing a final salary pension, it would be illegal to change the pension payments. But in any event that pension pot would not be taking further contributions from the pensioner or the taxpayer. It’s the employer (taxpayer) contributions to civil servants’ pension pots which need to be addressed as they are over generous and no final salary schemes still exist in the private sector. They aren’t sustainable.

Steve Taylor ● 9d

I agree civil service and public sector pensions are v generous and could be reviewed again.Ideally pension contributions from government/taxpayer would reduce and pay for say teachers/young doctors would increase. Prospective employees look more at current pay so a shift from pensions to pay would be attractive. But this comes with immediate costs for government even if its cheaper in the long run. So not likely to happen. I don’t think it would be right to change people’s employment pension retrospectively ie if someone has took a job with a final salary pension and is now receiving that pension it would be wrong to reduce it (and possibly illegal)

David Turner ● 9d

We aren’t talking about local government or Reform, moron. Keep up. We are talking about Final Salary Pension schemes which CIVIL SERVANTS are still enjoying and to which the taxpayer is still making huge contributions.

Steve Taylor ● 9d

Local government servives are being scrutinised by Reform in the councils that they now run as part of their DOGE agenda,moron.

Keith Iddon ● 9d

I was of course responding to Jane’s comments about civil servant final salary pensions which CIVIL SERVANTS  still enjoy . Some morons may not understand that Local Government officers are NOT Civil Servants and their  Final Salary pensions were frozen in 2014, not 2008! “ civil servants in the UK still have access to final salary pension schemes, also known as defined benefit schemes, but these are typically for those who joined the civil service before specific dates. Newer entrants generally have access to career average schemes. “And of course career average schemes are still much more generous than workplace pensions. Something for DOGE departments to look at carefully.

Steve Taylor ● 9d

And the LGPS final salary pensions ceased to be so in 2008.If you are going to blow off about public servants,at least try to keep up with reality,Steve.

Keith Iddon ● 10d

"That’s why we desperately need DOGE departments here to throw out dead wood, overpaid, dead wood civil servants. And of course the ridiculous final salary pensions must be frozen."

Mark Frost ● 10d

“ it seems like you expect every speech from politicians to mention every single group of people in the country.”No, moron, I was specifically referring to Rachel Thieves’ spending review speech where she specified 14 times that she and her government and the Labour Party supported working people only. You obviously are too dim to understand the nuances of such speeches.

Steve Taylor ● 10d

Final salary pensions for civil servants ended in 2007.

David Turner ● 10d

That’s why we desperately need DOGE departments here to throw out dead wood, overpaid, dead wood civil servants. And of course the ridiculous final salary pensions must be frozen.

Steve Taylor ● 10d

As a country we are in deep trouble when 53% of the population take out more than they put in the maths don’t add up. Too many people on benefits the tax burden on 47% is unacceptable and the 53% is growing. Too many civil servants on final salary pensions that will keep growing where in earth will this all end in deep trouble. We need more backbone as a country and need to get tough to save us all.

Jayne Thorburn ● 10d

Apologies. Forgot - Rishi is mega rich and was public schooled. But he isn't white.Boris, Cameron, Osborne etc. They must have developed such empathy with the average worker of the UK from their time at that renowned establishment of the non-rich and working class, Eton College. Fair dos, despite being as mad as a bag of mad frogs, Kemi Really Badenoch doesn't fall into the categories herself, but her policies are certainly shaped towards helping out the Camerons of the world more than the Badenochs.

Dave Mannisa ● 11d

Don't see how it will encourage people to work knowing they will betreated unfairly when they finish contributing.

Janice Evans ● 11d

😅

Janice Evans ● 11d

Hey, as I've said many times, I am certainly no fan of this iteration of The Labour Party.And again, am surprised you didn't work out the Labour / working people connection.Also, it seems like you expect every speech from politicians to mention every single group of people in the country.I didn't hear Kemi Really-BadEnoch mention people with disabilities in her last speech. The only conclusion we can draw from that (based on your criteria) is that she must absolutely hate them.

Dave Mannisa ● 11d

"..the tories only being for mega-rich, public schooled white people"You mean like Rishi Sunak and Kemi Badenoch ?

Richard Greenhough ● 11d

Glad to see you admit that the Labour Party is firmly against anyone who doesn’t work. Rachel Thieves admitted it 14 times in her speech. Quite despicable.

Steve Taylor ● 11d

I'm just a bit surprised that you hadn't realised that a political party called The Labour Party were primarily for working people. The clue is in the name.It's like being shocked that The Green Party have environmental issues at their core.

Dave Mannisa ● 11d

Yes isn’t it lovely that Labour don’t give a toss about disabled, mentally impaired or pensioners.

Steve Taylor ● 11d

Makes a difference from the tories only being for mega-rich, public schooled white people.

Dave Mannisa ● 11d

Interesting that Rachel Thieves said no fewer than 13 times during her clipped toned, bad accented speech on Wednesday that she, the Government and the Labour Party are all for WORKING people. She just couldn’t  emphasise it enough. If you are a pensioner or disabled or on benefits, if you aren’t working, she, the Government and the Labour Party couldn’t give a toss about you. At least she was honest!!

Steve Taylor ● 12d

And that was a brilliant Gwilym Simcock and Jonny Mansfield concert at SMAAA.  What an absolute treat not having to go far to hear and see it!  There are still some more concerts to go.  www.bedfordparkfestival.org

Philippa Bond ● 13d

Serves them right for being 95.9% in favour of remaining in the EU.

Andrew Jones ● 13d

The traitor, not content with surrendering sovereignty of the Chagos Islands, has now surrendered border control of Gibraltar to the EU; and the treachery won't end, I'm afraid, as Starmer does not represent us, but 'the other side'..

Michael Brown ● 13d

Yep, the government has just been throwing taxpayer money at these hotel owners and making them millionaires by overpaying them on a massive scale. The Rwanda scheme would have stopped waste of money and stopped so many thousands of illegal immigrants from coming here.

Steve Taylor ● 14d

A clean sweep

Steve Taylor ● 14d

This on the same day that it is announced that the old Hoover factory in Merthyr Tydfil is to be demolished. That could have been adapted to house asylum seekers.

Richard Greenhough ● 14d

There's a Welsh pianist and composer - and a vibraphonist (don't know if he's Welsh) at St Michael's and All Angels tonight as part of www.bedfordparkfestival.org

Philippa Bond ● 14d

Sadly, I think there are a large bunch of idiots who think that Tommy Robinson is a decent guy; protest the lifeboats saving the lives of non-English people, and think that Jim Davidson is funny. 

Dave Mannisa ● 14d

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-3433135/Video-Migrant-hotel-magnate-billionaire-backs-taxpayers.htmlI think articles like this is probably what puts people's backs up.

Philippa Bond ● 14d

Let's hope that all those who have criticised the use of hotels by saying that they wanted their hotels back will actually be using them.  I imagine a nice guaranteed income will have been appreciated by many hotel owners.  People don't get married every day of their lives.  There will be a more difficult job for everyone including the Councils trying to find homes for local people.

Philippa Bond ● 14d

I suppose the thing is, Steve, we should possibly have to agree to disagree. I like immigrants and you dislike immigrants. Therefore it's gonna be pretty difficult to find common ground.

Dave Mannisa ● 14d

So Rachel Thieves today announced that she would be cancelling hotel accommodation for asylum seeks in order to save £1.56 Billion. She conveniently forgot to say where she will put them!!!  Rwanda would have been a good idea. However the mystery is solved because the I Headline today confirms that “Rayner forces new housing pledge from Labour - as Asylum seekers face hotel eviction”!!! 

Steve Taylor ● 14d

People criticise usually others for having too many children and being unable to look after them and yet there is at least one MP telling people to have more.  You can never be sure that any wealth that you have today will last your's or your children's lifetimes and you can't take it with you.There is a lot of housing that is either empty or under-occupied in the UK - and some of it is new.  An awful lot of older housing is in a poor state of repair.

Philippa Bond ● 14d

“ English but then they literally go to other countries and expect the locals to know English.”Rubbish. Only a moron would expect locals in other countries to know English. But in any event we are talking about immigrants to the UK who refuse to integrate or learn to speak English. It’s appalling. Not to mention that our children are being held back at schools while teachers have to spend hours on immigrant  whose parents haven’t taught them basic English. This is a massive problem in our schools.

Steve Taylor ● 14d

Philippa, I think you are missing the point about the public's concern regarding unbridled immigration levels.It is not about English not being spoken so much as the rising crime levels it brings; it is about providing housing for immigrants in favour of our own people; it is about clogging up our whole infrastructure.

Denis I. Fox ● 14d

Great points, Philippa.We obviously have a long history of language evolution for a wide variety of reasons.It's so funny seeing Brits complain about people not learning English but then they literally go to other countries and expect the locals to know English.

Dave Mannisa ● 14d

Ah, dw i'n dod o Cymru.

Dave Mannisa ● 14d

Beth ddywedaist ti ?

Richard Greenhough ● 14d

You do talk a load of cows' manure. 'Anti-immigration? It's to do with numbers. So what is your view on immigration? Let them all in? Who's Anti-science, and who's Anti-fact? Please name them all and tell us exactly why. Why mention Mussolini?

Brian Coyle ● 14d

Tourism contributes ten times as much GDP to the British economy than the arms trade.

Philippa Bond ● 14d

We have a growing elderly population who are not working and paying tax and who will need care.  We have youngsters leaving school who don't have any qualifications and because their parents don't cook and haven't taught them to cook and haven't learnt how to at school can't even make a sandwich and a cup of tea for the elderly that they find a job as a carer for.Councils stopped providing English lessons and lots of other useful ones for many wanting to change career or catchup on  studies missed (free or paid for) years ago.PERHAPS WE SHOULD JUST CARRY ON CARRYING ON AS WE BRITS ALWAYS HAVE AND JUST SPEAK LOUDER WHEN WE GO ON OUR HOLIDAYS AND/OR MEET ANYBODY WHO DOESN'T APPEAR TO SPEAK ENGLISH BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T BOTHERED TO LEARN ANY OTHERS!

Philippa Bond ● 14d

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/520/is-immigration-a-threat-to-uk-security

Steve Taylor ● 14d

An island that has produced some of the world's finest music, art, TV, film, literature, poetry, cuisine and sport, among many other things - all of which would never be as rich, successful, groundbreaking and coveted the world over were it not for the influence and diversity of the nation's cultures.

Dave Mannisa ● 14d

In the year 2022 the metropolitan police spent £6,238,000 on translators for prisoners brought into custody for interrogation.That figure will undoubtably increase until immigration is curtailed.

Denis I. Fox ● 14d

Yep, an island of strangers.

Steve Taylor ● 14d

So great to have so many different languages spoken in London - one of the most multiculturally thriving cities in the world.All the different languages, foods, music, literature and art from across the world is so good to experience in this city and country.

Dave Mannisa ● 14d

“ and there are plenty of British people whose English leaves a lot to be desired.”Precisely, they have been doling out British Citizenship to thousands who never learn to speak English because they have no intention of integrating. It’s disgraceful. Why do you think London Councils have to publish documents in so many different languages? We need DOGE departments to stop this waste of money. “ Boroughs like Haringey have over 180 languages spoken, with a significant percentage of residents not speaking English”

Steve Taylor ● 14d

And there was me thinking that he was just pandering to the ignorant racists amongst us who go rioting.  Many people choose to come here precisely because they can already speak some English and there are plenty of British people whose English leaves a lot to be desired. It is probably better for those moving here to send their children to school here so that they too learn English and mix with British people - which is exactly what many do choose to do.

Philippa Bond ● 15d

Why did you avoid addressing any of my questions?

Brian Coyle ● 15d

Why do you want everyone to integrate, there were always areas of. Different cultures isn't that what makes life interesting but also our ways should be protected otherwise it causes unease,

Janice Evans ● 16d

“Populations have always migrated and mixed.”Nonsense, Stammer was 100% correct when he said we were becoming. “an island of strangers”Third world Immigrants don’t integrate like immigrants from Europe. Many don’t even learn to speak English and some cultures  keep their women at home for fear of them learning the ‘western’ way of life.

Steve Taylor ● 16d

Yeah great, a state likely behind Flight l03 and the killing of a policewoman in St James's Square.

Julian Pavey ● 16d

We need a Muammar..https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1Be4aHJ5ay/

Michael Brown ● 16d

Numbers can well double. That depends on where you pick your date for the original figure and carry it over to ones choice.For instance, boat numbers in April 2025 are double those of April 2024.Don't get confused by boat numbers, which have roughly doubled since 2010.The Canal & River Trust😁

Julian Pavey ● 17d

With respect Steve, you didn’t.Perhaps you didn’t read or spot the particular post I was referring to in my post today @ 15.57)?I acknowledge that you did reply to my post of 05/06/25 where I asked “So Steve, where’s your proof it’s doubled?” and along with providing some figures you added the comment “ .. so it’s certainty not rocket science to add them up and conclude that they have more than doubled under Labour and they are continuing to rise.”I replied to this post on 06/06/25 starting with the line:“I know it's not rocket science but I'll add up the numbers and show you that it hasn't doubled.”This is the post I was referring to when I wrote “notice you are very silent about my proving that illegal immigration hasn't doubled under this Labour government.”

Andrew Jones ● 17d

“ notice you are very silent about my proving that illegal immigration hasn't doubled under this Labour government.”No I wasn’t. I provided a comprehensive reply with figures. And - talking about Albania - didn’t Stammer make a complete arse of himself when the Albanian PM humiliated him by saying, in effect, telling him to sod off because he now had a deal with the much more attractive Italian PM who he ‘loves’ ?  Poor Stammer seemed to physically shrink in stature and size.

Steve Taylor ● 17d

"illegal immigration has reached unprecedented levels"Only if you discount illegal arrivals from Albania, which I acknowledge was one of the few successes of the previous government in combatting illegal arrivals into the UK.By the way, I notice you are very silent about my proving that illegal immigration hasn't doubled under this Labour government.

Andrew Jones ● 17d

“ Asylum seekers need to be processed faster.”Precisely and the Rwanda scheme would have been perfect because there would be far less of them because thousands of them would have been deterred from attempting to come here and the successful applicants would have been granted a safe haven in Rwanda to settle and enjoy a secure future. Starmer has a lot to answer for as illegal immigration has reached unprecedented levels. If he survives this Parliament he will pay dearly at the ballot box. He really, really needs to appoint a competent Home Secretary because the one he has is beyond useless.

Steve Taylor ● 17d

Apologies Philippa for my misspelling your name.

Denis I. Fox ● 18d

Phillipa, please tell me at what limit of mass immigration would you cry HALT?Numbers equalising the size of Bristol, Leeds, Birmingham, London.Or infinitum.

Denis I. Fox ● 18d

When were you in Rwanda?  Why are you so very sure that this country is "safe"?  Passing a law here to say that it is safe is akin to passing a law to say that pink is blue.  Thousands who have travelled here have been sent back.  Europeans aren't necessarily a better fit for the country than those from further away.  Populations have always migrated and mixed.  The Romans when they conquered us weren't ALL from one nearby European country.  Most refugees stay in their next door countries.  Asylum seekers need to be processed faster.  Austerity and a the lack of investment in the court system and infrastructure together with Covid has slowed that down.

Philippa Bond ● 18d

Its like Trump & Musk on here with Dave and Steve

Davy Jones ● 18d

I know it's not rocket science but I'll add up the numbers and show you that it hasn't doubled.The source of my data is: https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/channel-crossings-tracker.The figures relate to the number of illegal crossings by small boat detected from the start of the years 2023, 2024 and 2025:05/07/23 11,43331/12/23 29,43701/06/24 10,44805/07/24 13,57431/12/24 36,81601/06/25 14,812From 05/07/23 to 01/06/24 the numbers detected were:18,004 + 10,448 = 28,452.From 05/07/24 to 01/06/25 the numbers detected were:23,242 + 14,812 = 38,054.For the period 1st Jan to 1st Jun that's an increase of 41.8% under this government compared to the previous government. For the period 5th Jul to 1st Jun that's an increase of 33.7% under this government compared to the previous government. For the period 5th Jul to 31st Dec that's an increase of 29.1% under this government compared to the previous government. Now I'm not claiming that this Labour Government are doing a grand job, but I am calling you out on the incorrect information you keep posting on this forum - just because you say something, that doesn't make it true.It may be that reform do well in the next general election, but until then you are stuck with this democratically elected government. 

Andrew Jones ● 19d

The problem is, as pointed out by the lovely Mrs Badenoch, is that the majority of the boat people pass through at least four safe countries en route to the UK but they insist on coming here and risking their lives purely because we are the softest touch. They aren’t desperate people at all if they can remain in one of the safe countries they pass through. The ridiculous ECHR allows them to do so. Hence they are encouraged to risk their lives. The ECHR has blood on its hands. Will be interesting to see the report after Mrs Badenoch’s full investigation on leaving ECHR.

Steve Taylor ● 19d

Well it was a plan, politics eh, the idea was to deter others rather than the number actually sent to Rwanda, they did start making their way to Ireland instead but no doubt would have made their way here eventually, if I was them I would want to come here and think most probably would, problem is there will be no services left to provide for everyone.

Janice Evans ● 19d

Well, each to their own, Steve. Personally, I think anyone who thinks the Rwanda plan was a good idea must have the IQ of a hedgehog.

Dave Mannisa ● 19d

It's good to see you two getting along so well.

Keith Iddon ● 19d

I don’t understand your specific kind of stupid, David. But I admire your total commitment to it.

Steve Taylor ● 19d

Yes, you keep believing that, Steve. Doing her best to ensure the tories don't get voted in for the next twenty years. Even I, as a full tory despiser, feel a bit sorry for them having such an embarrassingly bad leader

Dave Mannisa ● 19d

“The tories almost single-handedly crashed the economy”No they didn’t. When Labour was thrown out in 2010 they left a financial black hole of £158 billion which the Tories spent 15 years wrestling with, trying to bring government spending under control. Unfortunately the Covid Pandemic and Ukraine war made this impossible and Rishi Sunak was over generous with his Furlough scheme because of his naivety in understanding the greed of the British public which resulted in the massive exploitation of the scheme by businesses small, medium and large. He is only guilty of being too nice. The crash wasn’t caused by the conservatives - it was the result of them inheriting huge debt from Labour and the Pandemic and Ukraine war. The person fully responsible for the final straw was the  guffawing buffoon, Kwazi  Kwarteng who was supported by the dimwitted Truss.  It’s totally disingenuous and ridiculously foolish to suggest that the Kwarteng economy crash would be in any way connected to the brilliant minded Rishi Sunak’s Rwanda scheme. When Rishi took over the buffoon and the lettuce were already well on their way to Hell.

Steve Taylor ● 19d

Excellent, excellent speech by Kemi Badenoch on leaving the ECHR. Good points delivered clearly, calmly, eloquently, with conviction and passion. Such good leadership qualities compared to the frightened deer in headlights PM who delivers speeches as nasal, evangelical sermons with absolutely no conviction.

Steve Taylor ● 19d

ST > "Rwanda is safe whether you like it or not."For the sake of argument, let's say that Rwanda is a safe place to live, but that isn't what matters. The real question is whether Rwanda is a safe place to send asylum seekers? The Supreme Court said 'no' - it ruled Rwanda not to be a safe country for asylum seekers, given the high risk of Rwanda sending asylum seekers to places where there is a risk they would be subjected to persecution and ill-treatment.The government then abused the legislative power of parliament to legally define Rwanda as safe for asylum seekers, even if factually it isn't!

John Whitworth ● 19d

I love it when people make it sound like if the mad Rwanda deal went ahead everything would be absolutely fine. No boats would be crossing the channel with desperate people seeing a new life.The whole idea of sending people to Rwanda makes about as much sense as an interview with Lee Anderson. The tories almost single-handedly crashed the economy. Can you imagine the catalogue of errors that would have happened had that bunch of halfwits been in charge of sending people to Rwanda?

Dave Mannisa ● 19d

“ Since 2018, when figures were first recorded, more than 150,000 people have arrived in small boats. Of those who arrived in 2024, more than 23,000 did so after Labour won the July 2024 general election.”  These figures are up to 27 Feb 2025. Yes 27 FEB 2025. So of 150,000 arriving over 7 Years, a massive  23,000 arrived AFTER Labour took over up to 27 FEB.  Now we all know the figures reported for March, April and May so it’s certainty not rocket science to add them up and conclude that they have more than doubled under Labour and they are continuing to rise. By the end of summer we will probably find that deaths during crossings will have doubled under Labour too. Yes they’re doing a  great job aren’t they. And the Rwanda scheme would have stopped it all and Reform wouldn’t be so far ahead in the polls.

Steve Taylor ● 19d

Thanks Julian. So Steve, where’s your proof it’s doubled?Sounds like it hasn’t ( which is what I suspected, only because I’ve looked at a lot of figures recently and none of them jumped out at me as reflecting a 100% increase).I’m not defending Labour’s record, but pointing out mid-information and “it’s doubled under labour” is bulls**t

Andrew Jones ● 19d

“ Less than thirty years ago nearly a million people were murdered in a civil war.”That was 30 years ago. It’s now legally a safe country. 35 years ago South Africa was an Apartheid country but now it is an extremely unsafe country with a corrupt, inefficient government and one of the highest murder and rape cases in the world. Not to mention theft, housebreaking and petty crime. Get over it. Things change. Rwanda is safe whether you like it or not.

Steve Taylor ● 19d

“ would only have needed a couple of Jumbo jets full of boat people to arrive in Rwanda to have acted as a deterrent to those still hoping to cross the Channel.”100% correct. It was a perfect plan.

Steve Taylor ● 19d

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/migrants-detected-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boatsIf it's doubled, ive no idea, but it's up 47% JAN-MAY 25 compared to 2024Your have to look at the data to get your answer

Julian Pavey ● 19d

Doubled? Can you point me at some ONS figures ( or another reputable source) that proves this?

Andrew Jones ● 20d

It must have been a fun day at the office for the Tories - blindfolding someone like Rishi and asking him to place a pin somewhere on a map.Took a few attempts because on the first few he pinned the sea and someone had to point out that the sea isn't a safe place for planes to land.Probably happened at one of those lockdown parties Bonkers Boris organised.

Dave Mannisa ● 20d

It would only have needed a couple of Jumbo jets full of boat people to arrive in Rwanda to have acted as a deterrent to those still hoping to cross the Channel.

Richard Greenhough ● 20d

Safe country ? Less than thirty years ago nearly a million people were murdered in a civil war.

David Burke ● 20d

“ better that the government tries to get the French to stop the boats leaving France”They tried and failed miserably. The number of boat people arriving from France has doubled under this government. Pity Starmer negotiated a deal ( to pay the French more money) whereby the French won’t stop people boarding boats if their ankles are in the water.  Rwanda is, in Law, deemed to be a safe country for refugees. Rishi would have gone a long way to solving the problem. Now we have to wait for Nigel who won’t be so generous to illegal immigrants and asylum seekers.

Steve Taylor ● 20d

Rwanda also supports the M23 rebels who have committed atrocities in D.R. Congohttps://www.hrw.org/news/2023/06/13/dr-congo-killings-rapes-rwanda-backed-m23-rebelsFar better that the government tries to get the French to stop the boats leaving France, rather than pursuing some pie in the sky scheme involving an unreliable partner in Africa that is only after UK money

Andrew Jones ● 20d

ST > "... Rwanda which was chosen by the last government because it is deemed to be as safe as the UK."Not really.The last government introduced the Safety of Rwanda (Asylum and Immigration) Act about which the Law Society says:Quote >>>The act declares as a matter of law that Rwanda is a safe country for the UK to remove asylum seekers to.This is despite Rwanda being found by the Supreme Court in November 2023 not to be a safe country for asylum seekers, given the high risk of Rwanda sending asylum seekers to places where there is a risk they would be subjected to persecution and ill-treatment.The signing of a treaty does not change this finding of fact.The act denies the courts the opportunity to consider any evidence that Rwanda is unsafe.Even if the court was presented with overwhelming evidence that Rwanda is unsafe, the court would be forced to ignore this and treat Rwanda as a safe country. This removes the court’s ability to protect people at clear risk of harm.If the government was confident that Rwanda was a safe country it should not fear independent oversight from the courts. <<< End Quote

John Whitworth ● 20d

Nonsense. Rwanda would take as many as we could ship to them. Fortunately our next government won’t subscribe to the ECHR so we can negotiate with many countries besides Rwanda which was chosen by the last government because it is deemed to be as safe as the UK.

Steve Taylor ● 20d

Rwanda was the best idea to tackle immigration by any Prime Minister this century. Labour has lost control and is happy for the UK to adopt third world status. Fortunately Labour won’t remain in power much longer.

Steve Taylor ● 20d

Rwanda would only take 500 each year.

David Burke ● 20d

Nah. Of all the dumb ideas the Tory scum had, that was definitely one of the dumbest.Almost beyond satire.

Dave Mannisa ● 20d

We should be sending illegal immigrants in their thousands to Rwanda where they have safe haven.

Steve Taylor ● 20d

No limit required.We should be helping as many refugees as we can.

Dave Mannisa ● 20d

sounds a bit Little Englander, but must do you goot to have a rant and let off some steam

Davy Jones ● 20d

Yes, if we need people to do the jobs here I prefer that we have EU citizens rather than people from 3rd world countries. Before Brexit we didn’t have the boat people invasion but since Deer Keir’s blundering deal with the French, stabbing our fishermen in the back, he negotiated a ‘deal’ whereby the French authorities don’t have to prevent illegal immigrants, who are already  ankle deep in water, from getting in the boats. So, besides not smashing the gangs, Stammer is giving the French double the money Rishi ever gave, and giving away our fishing rights as well as ensuring more illegal immigrants are assisted into the boats whilst the French Police can just watch and wave them goodbye. Aah yes, The Enemy Within and the French are laughing all the way. They can’t believe their luck that the British people voted in such an incompetent government.

Steve Taylor ● 20d

Also I believe the figures for those returned were never published, so wedon't know how effective it was.

Janice Evans ● 21d

Andrew, the first recorded arrivals were in 2018, aren't we discussing why Governments have failed rather than when they started arriving! Brexit or not.

Janice Evans ● 21d

Indeed they do. It just happens that boat crossings have increased from zero before 2018 such that they now form the majority of detected illegal arrivals in the UK, and have done since about 2020 or 2021.https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/unauthorised-migration-in-the-uk/#:~:text=There%20are%20four%20main%20ways,UK%20to%20irregular%20migrant%20parents.gives plenty of information

Andrew Jones ● 21d

Andrew, they enter the UK by many other ways, whatever the reason for more boat crossings the idea or promise was to get it under control andwhy governments lose support when they fail.

Janice Evans ● 21d

Just so,Andrew.The preferred method to enter Britain illegally prior to 2018 was via stowing away on lorries and other vehicles,even aircraft and was thus much easier to police.Promising to 'smash the gangs' is not convincing to either the public nor it would appear to the gangmasters, who have just carried on launching boats whilst French police stand by,no doubt shrugging their shoulders and smoking Gauloises.

Keith Iddon ● 22d

Hi Janice, The thing is that prior to 2018 there were no small boat crossings, and maybe, just maybe part of the reason was that people who came here illegally could be returned to where they came from, if they'd come from the EU. That option disappeared with the Brexit deal the government negotiated.Proponents of the Rwanda scheme suggest that the possibility of ending up in Rwanda and having your asylum application processed there would be sufficient to deter people from crossing illegally on small boats.What I'm suggesting is that perhaps the Brexit deal is part of the reason why there is a problem now that didn't exist before the Brexit deal was negotiated.Labour need to stop the gangs because we can't go back to an arrangement that was in place before Brexit.

Andrew Jones ● 22d

"I was a firm believer in freedom of movement within the EU and I welcome all EU citizens." Can I take it that you are now not a a firm believer, and what exactly do you mean by: "I welcome all EU citizens". No limit at all on numbers then?

Brian Coyle ● 22d

Andrew, it shouldn't be about returning them, for Labour to gain support thought the idea was to stop them 'the gangs',  The Brexit deal you all wanted has caused more problems.

Janice Evans ● 22d

I should add that correlation does not imply causation. However crossings by immigrants by into the EU by sea were certainly happening way before 2018 e.g. https://www.statista.com/statistics/623514/migrant-arrivals-to-italy/

Andrew Jones ● 22d

No small boat arrivals are recorded prior to 2018 when the UK was a part of a returns arrangement with the EU whereby anyone making the crossing could be returned. But the Government's Brexit deal did not include any agreement on a new returns arrangement and so returning migrants became far more difficult - and small boat crossings grew quickly.

Andrew Jones ● 22d

If they could issue fines on France for failing to stop the boats and preventing deaths might get a positive reaction from them.

Janice Evans ● 22d

The Rwanda scheme was the perfect deterrent. The fact that Labour didn’t use the scheme is criminal and the reason Labour won’t get a second term in office. In the meantime more Labour controlled councils will be annihilated by Reform.

Steve Taylor ● 22d

Steve, every time they tried to send anyone to Rwanda, it was blocked by the opposition, some actually wanted to go to Rwanda,  the boats are making someone billions, while it's a dodgy business it will never stop and is costing lives.

Janice Evans ● 23d

Our PM still the enemy within or has the Overton window moved on

Davy Jones ● 23d

Escorting those small boats out of British waters would be totally inhumane and insanely cruel.  Sending the occupants of those boats to Rwanda in aircraft ensured safe travel and a safe haven at destination. It’s almost criminal that the Rwanda Scheme wasn’t given a chance to prove itself.

Steve Taylor ● 23d

How many asylum seekers were actually sent to Rwanda?What was the cost of the Rwandan scheme?How many asylum seekers had Rwanda previously agreed to take? There were almost 30000 arrivals on small boats alone in 2023. Even if a few hundred  of those applicants were sent to Rwanda I just don’t see that being a deterrent, especially considering all the other risks many of those people would have taken. The root cause of the small boat problem lies with Brexit and the failure of the last government to secure a returns agreement. I think the quickest way to stop the boats would be to escort the boats out of British waters, similar to what the Australians did a few years back.

David Turner ● 23d

The Rwanda scheme was the best scheme decided by any government this century and Starmer has stuffed it up big time.

Steve Taylor ● 23d

"Truth is, Britain’s lost control of its borders over the last five years, and the last government last year left an asylum system in chaos and record levels of immigration.”Still blaming their predecessors, without mentioning who it was who scrapped the Rwanda scheme, which would have provided a deterrent to those coming in the boats.

Richard Greenhough ● 23d

“ The Defence Secretary has admitted that Britain has “lost control of its borders” after nearly 1,200 migrants crossed the Channel in a single day on Saturday.John Healey described the scenes as “shocking” and said people-smugglers were able to load small boats on French shores “like a taxi”.The 1,000-plus arrivals marked the highest number of people to cross the Channel in a single day so far this year. Some 18 dinghies, each carrying more than 50 migrants, were reported to have left the French coast.The Coastguard was forced to call on fishing boats to assist a yacht and a kayak that were in trouble, as Border Force vessels and lifeboats were overwhelmed rescuing people making the perilous journey.Asked about the situation on Sunday, Mr Healey admitted that Britain had “lost control” of its borders.He told Sunday Morning with Trevor Phillips on Sky News: “Pretty shocking, those scenes yesterday. Truth is, Britain’s lost control of its borders over the last five years, and the last government last year left an asylum system in chaos and record levels of immigration.”

Steve Taylor ● 24d

Now it looks like Brits buying a second home in Spain will have to pay a 100% tax on it.

Nicholas Beard ● 24d

“ you were absolutely happy with the right of free movement given to anyone in the EU, regardless of the reason they choose to come here, yet you are against a controlled student visa scheme where the UK has a degree of control as to who it allows into the country arriving via legal means. ”Yes you are 100% correct. I was a firm believer in freedom of movement within the EU and I welcome all EU citizens.  The UK certainly doesn’t have a controlled student visa scheme. It’s up to the individual Uni’s Admission Officers to vet qualifications etc and approve their applications for visas. Unfortunately there are so many bogus qualifications with forged documents from third world countries now applying for student positions. It’s a fact that many of these students have no intention of studying here and the stats are available as to how many thousands slip into the black economy.

Steve Taylor ● 24d

Steve,If it was the only question why, oh why did you come up with all that other stuff that I proved you were wrong about?You say one thing and then contradict yourself later on in the same thread.It feels like talking to someone who just doesn't get it but I'll repeat myself again:You said: "The Home Office has no idea of exactly how many ‘students’ remain here after their visa has expired and how many just slope off into the black economy." – False, you’ve admitted as much yourself by saying that the ONS have these statistics. You then yourself go on to mention a figure for the number who haven’t left (incorrect as it happens). So are you suggesting you have these figures to hand but the home office hasn’t?You then said:"And you have no evidence that those students didn’t stay and the fact remains that with the  exception of Germany, the UK has the highest net migration in Europe. France, Spain and Italy have succeeded in reducing their immigration substantially since 2023. The UK has failed miserably. Hence the rise of Farage."Again, I’ve demonstrated that the majority of students didn’t stay, so the first bit (which is what I was disputing) that you said again was demonstrably false.I didn’t bring up Farage, Reform, France, Spain, Italy or this Labour Government. I'm not commenting about any of that.You made assertions earlier on in this thread that are incorrect and I tackled you about them.Earlier on, I even updated some figures you provided with more upto date figures.What I find really odd is as someone who totally opposed Brexit, from what I can tell, you were absolutely happy with the right of free movement given to anyone in the EU, regardless of the reason they choose to come here, yet you are against a controlled student visa scheme where the UK has a degree of control as to who it allows into the country arriving via legal means.

Andrew Jones ● 25d

“ Whether or not the immigration system has failed is a different question”But it’s not a different question. It’s the only question and the ONS has answered it. The Home Office has answered it. The statistics are clear and successive governments have admitted it. The Conservatives had a plan to deter illegal immigrants and prevent students from bringing families etc. Labour cancelled the Rwanda plan and illegal immigration increased. The public have voted and are running to support Reform. Your past statistics are no longer relevant because the damage has been done and everyone knows it so you can cherry pick the stats all you like to try convince yourself that your denial of the facts is justified. Fact remains that the majority of people want immigration reduced radically and those on student visas to be forced to leave on completion of their degrees.

Steve Taylor ● 25d

Ah Dear Steve, Is that what they call deflection? Let me remind you of some of what you wrote and what I wrote earlier in this thread.You: "The Home Office has no idea of exactly how many ‘students’ remain here after their visa has expired and how many just slope off into the black economy."and"Well, what is your evidence that the Home Office know exactly how many 'students' remain here illegally their visa has expired?"You:"That’s right. So only 41% of students left the UK after their student visa expired. 59% remained. Clear evidence that the majority granted student visas have no intention of returning to their home country." Me:"So it isn’t clear evidence of what you assert about the 59% having no intention to return.What proportion of those 59% continued to stay in the country legally on a subsequent study visa or other visa? Undoubtedly some remained, perhaps legally, perhaps illegally but you have provided no evidence that the whole 59% stayed with no intention of returning to the country they came from."You:"And you have no evidence that those students didn’t stay and the fact remains that with the  exception of Germany, the UK has the highest net migration in Europe. France, Spain and Italy have succeeded in reducing their immigration substantially since 2023. The UK has failed miserably. Hence the rise of Farage."Answering some of what you said previously:On your assertion that the Home Office has no idea: The ONS provides the statistics of what happens to people who have come here on study visas so unless the Home Office doesn’t have access to the ONS data, or deliberately chooses to have no idea what you wrote about how many 'students' remain here after their visa has expired is simply incorrect.I’ve linked to the ONS data alreadyOn your assertion: “Clear evidence that the majority granted student visas have no intention of returning to their home country.”and “And you have no evidence that those students didn’t stay … ”Again I provided evidence and asked you “Now, what's your evidence to rebut my evidence Steve?”Whether or not the immigration system has failed is a different question.You said the home office has no idea – you were wrong.You said “clear evidence that the majority granted student visas have no intention of returning to their home country” – You provided no evidence, I provided evidence to disprove you assertion – again, you are wrong.

Andrew Jones ● 25d

The ONS Reports are clear evidence on how our immigration system has failed and why so many are supporting Reform to get a grip where Labour is failing miserably.

Steve Taylor ● 25d

Yet there are still 1.73 million on unemployment benefits who choose not to work!!

Steve Taylor ● 25d

Minimum wage:From April 2025, the rates are: £12.21 (aged 21 and over) £10 (aged 18 to 20) £7.55 (aged under 18).

Philippa Bond ● 25d

School leavers are often employed as carers by companies.  Their rates aren't the ones usually quoted in the press.  They still have to travel from home to home (transport cost is supposed by law to be paid by the employing company but often isn't) and they may need to actually have transport with those costs and difficulties (may rely on someone else to be available to chauffeur them or have to get a taxi costing more than they are paid).  Home to home visits are often not conveniently near to each other.Unbelievably we have had school leavers unable to make tea and coffee or  make a sandwich.  This does of course need to be done at speed and with confidence.  Lack of continuity of care (not knowing who would turn up) means having to explain where everything is in a kitchen etc. (I ended up with labels on the outside of cupboard doors.) No time for a conversation in a bleak and lonely day with a 15 min caring slot - a big problem if you've lost the TV zapper even you know its just under the sofa).

Philippa Bond ● 25d

Here are some ONS reports from Dec 2024 and May 2025 and links to Spreadsheets of the ONS data:https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/longterminternationalmigrationprovisional/yearendingdecember2024https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/datasets/longterminternationalstudentmigrationprovisionalestimateshttps://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/articles/reasonforinternationalmigrationinternationalstudentsupdate/may2025There are some caveats regarding the data presented in the may 2025 report.If you look at the "Underlying data for Long-term international student migration" spreadsheet you can find percentage values for people emigrating after arriving here on various types of study related visas. Just looking at the Study Visas:In 2019 111,500 people recorded as having arrived on a study visa (from a Non EU country). In subsequent years, the proportion of these who hadn't emigrated was 72% (1 year later), 47% (2 years later) and 26% (3 years later)For 2020, the figures are 99,500 and 75%, 40% and 20%.For 2021, figures are 222,300 and 70%, 33% and 17%.For 2022, figures are 314,100 and 63% (1 year later) and 25% (2 years later)For 2023, of the 298,200 who arrived on a study visa, 65% hadn't emigrated a year later. Now 2019 and 2020 were pre-pandemic and pandemic years, so there's a chance that the data deviated significantly more from gemeral trends, but the figures for 2021, 2022 and 2023 aren't that wildly different.And that's some evidence why I think your assertion "That’s right. So only 41% of students left the UK after their student visa expired. 59% remained. Clear evidence that the majority granted student visas have no intention of returning to their home country.", in particular the bit I highlighted isn't correct.Now, what's your evidence to rebut my evidence Steve?

Andrew Jones ● 26d

As a distraction, here’s a recent detailed analysis by the TUC of our inadequate benefit system:https://www.tuc.org.uk/research-analysis/reports/benefit-levels-uk

Peter Evans ● 26d

“ I suspect UK employers just can’t be bothered to take on and train up our school leavers and would still rather have ready trained and perhaps more mature adults from elsewhere.”That’s right. As an employer, it’s astounding how many school leavers are totally inarticulate and struggle to string a sentence together. Before Brexit it was wonderful to be able to employ well educated young people from the EU. The number of UK young people now on benefits is unprecedented and they seem happy to live on benefits even if our benefits system pays the lowest in the developed world, as you assert!  Do you have evidence to back up your assertion and are you including every EU Country as a ‘developed’ country?

Steve Taylor ● 26d

Our benefit system isn’t generous - it's among the lowest in the developed countries, with Jobseeker’s Allowance for under 25s around £75 a week. I suspect UK employers just can’t be bothered to take on and train up our school leavers and would still rather have ready trained and perhaps more mature adults from elsewhere. Meanwhile our youngsters are being driven mad by prolonged exposure to social media, which makes them less able to engage with the real world.

Peter Evans ● 26d

“ It is a shame - no - despicable - that so many of our own youngsters fail to complete the courses and find the working conditions so stressful and unsatisfactory”It is indeed shameful that our benefits system is so generous that our own people don’t feel the need to work at all. Which is why, before Brexit, the freedom of movement system was so good for our NHS because we had a choice of extremely well educated, hard working, people from the EU to choose from to fill the vacancies. Now we have to employ third world people and overpay them through various unscrupulous pop up agencies.

Steve Taylor ● 26d

Well its not that long since the NHS was sending and/or employing recruiters out to lots of foreign countries to sign up staff to work in the UK. Ones trained here would presumably be cheaper and more preferable.  It is a shame - no - despicable - that so many of our own youngsters fail to complete the courses and find the working conditions so stressful and unsatisfactory that they prefer to earn more stacking shelves in a supermarket or join the private sector. Although the shortages of staff even in the private sector can make their jobs there on contracts too pressurised, unsatisfactory and lacking in job satisfaction.

Philippa Bond ● 27d

And you have no evidence that those students didn’t stay and the fact remains that with the  exception of Germany, the UK has the highest net migration in Europe. France, Spain and Italy have succeeded in reducing their immigration substantially since 2023. The UK has failed miserably. Hence the rise of Farage.

Steve Taylor ● 27d

You omitted the word initial Steve.So it isn’t clear evidence of what you assert about the 59% having no intention to return. What proportion of those 59% continued to stay in the country legally on a subsequent study visa or other visa? Undoubtedly some remained, perhaps legally, perhaps illegally but you have provided no evidence that the whole 59% stayed with no intention of returning to the country they came from.

Andrew Jones ● 28d

That’s right. So only 41% of students left the UK after their student visa expired. 59% remained. Clear evidence that the majority granted student visas have no intention of returning to their home country.

Steve Taylor ● 28d

I don't why you think that those other countries' citizens who came here on student visas aren't hard working.  Many I've seen have a better work ethic than UK citizens.

Philippa Bond ● 29d

You (Steve) were the one who made the assertion (that the The Home Office has no idea of exactly how many ‘students’ remain here after their visa has expired ), so I asked you what your evidence was. I never asserted that you were wrong, though I did say I would be surprised if you were correct.For all I know, your assertion might be true, and they don't know, but I'm not going to accept that simply because you said it was the case. You've just posted:I found this:“ Data from the Office for National Statistics shows that between September 2021 and August 2022, fewer students emigrated at the end of their initial study visa (41%). ”What exactly does that prove? Without context, nothing very much at all. That statement could still be true even if everyone who came to the UK on a study visa (and wasn't granted a further visa to stay before their initial visa expired) then emigrated as required.

Andrew Jones ● 29d

I found this:“ Data from the Office for National Statistics shows that between September 2021 and August 2022, fewer students emigrated at the end of their initial study visa (41%). ”

Steve Taylor ● 29d

Well, what is your evidence that the Home Office know exactly how many 'students' remain here illegally their visa has expired?

Steve Taylor ● 29d

"The Home Office has no idea of exactly how many ‘students’ remain here after their visa has expired and how many just slope off into the black economy."Are you sure about that first bit? It's surely not rocket science to see how many study visas have been issued, and how many of these are recorded as having departed the country through legal channels?What is your evidence that the Home Office have no idea of how many 'students' remain here after their visa has expired.I'm quite prepared to believe that the proportion of visas issued to 'bogus students' is an unknown, but I'd expect they had an estimate of an upper limit.

Andrew Jones ● 29d

That’s part of the problem. The Home Office has no idea of exactly how many ‘students’ remain here after their visa has expired and how many just slope off into the black economy.  They also don’t know what proportion of the visa are issued to bogus students who had no intention of studying here once they were granted entry.  However, the 2020 cohort of students, who could transfer to the graduate route, had a higher retention rate of 57% after 3 years compared to previous years.

Steve Taylor ● 29d

That's a very sweeping one liner!Some undoubtedly do, but do you have any data to enlighten us on what proportion of those coming here to study never leave?I'm not suggesting that there isn't a problem but simplistic headlining statements never convey the full picture.Mind you, that's exactly what plenty of populist politicians rely on.

Andrew Jones ● 29d

“come here to study according to the data.”And then they never leave!

Steve Taylor ● 30d

More recent data (year ending Dec 2024) can be found on: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/longterminternationalmigrationprovisional/yearendingdecember2024Specifically, the top four non-EU+ nationalities for long-term immigration were:Indian (157,000), Nigerian (52,000), Pakistani (76,000), Chinese (70,000).Zimbabwe is no longer in the top five on the Dec 2024 data, it's Ukraine (22,000).Long-term immigration isn't the same as permanent immigration, it's defined as staying in the UK for more than 12 months.The majority of immigrants out of those mentioned come here to study according to the data.

Andrew Jones ● 30d

Denmark is so fortunate because the vast majority of their immigrants are from Poland. It’s such a pity we no longer can attract  those hardworking lovely people. “ The majority of immigrants to the UK in the year ending June 2024 originate from India, Nigeria, Pakistan, China, and Zimbabwe. Specifically, the top five non-EU+ nationalities for long-term immigration were: Indian (240,000), Nigerian (120,000), Pakistani (101,000), Chinese (78,000), and Zimbabwe (36,000)”

Steve Taylor ● 30d

Whether it was doomed to failure or not,it seems that it is good enough for Denmark to adopt and along with other policies,it has contributed to them reducing greatly the numbers coming in illegally.It's alright shouting from the boundary when in opposition,but they have offerd up no convincing alternative in my opinion.And still the same situation exists.

Keith Iddon ● 30d

“ The Rwandan scheme was very expensive  and  always doomed to failure. ”There is absolutely NO evidence that it was doomed to failure. It was just lies spewed out by the Labour Party. The scheme would have been the perfect deterrent and nobody can prove otherwise. There is 100% evidence that in the run up to the election thousands of wannabe boat people were waiting in Calais to see the results. When Labour won the invasion resumed in full force!

Steve Taylor ● 30d

Sam - if Rishi is responsible for the fall in net migration in 2024 who was responsible for the near 1M net migration in 2023?  Boris?Whoever they were they are responsible for much of the shift to Reform.Keith - any suggestions for tackling illegal immigration or reducing asylum claims or stopping the boats?  On illegal migration I’d be happy with the introduction of ID cards  with strict enforcement for employment .  The small boats problem is of course , and not without irony, one of the consequences of Brexit eg we can no longer return people to France. The Rwandan scheme was very expensive  and  always doomed to failure.

David Turner ● 30d

Mmmmm. After reading by the papers today it seems that Rachel from Accounts  is to be sacrificed for all Deer Keir’s blunders but that Angela Rayner is being urged to pounce and oust Keir.  She has been actively distancing herself from Keir and her body language and vacant look when Keir said anything during PMQ’s was very obvious. Astounding that she could ever think she is capable of the top job when she is always slaughtered by any journalist of the lowest calibre.  Poor Keir. He has many, many enemies within.

Steve Taylor ● 30d

I'm no Starmer fan but the truth is it's F@@@Kwits like you that are the enemy within.

Craig David Mcdowell ● 31d

Successive Labour governments could easily have abolished Mrs T’s ‘Right to Buy’ but never did, though at least the proceeds can now go to building more social housing, which it originally couldn’t.  But still we have our local councils having to create ‘arms length entities’ to build social housing to avoid losing it under Right to Buy.

Peter Evans ● 31d

There doesn’t seem to be a housing shortage for people prepared to buy a house. There is apparently a shortage of social housing for people on benefits or immigrants who can’t support themselves and need government handouts. Margaret Thatcher created the social housing shortage by allowing the social housing to be sold off to tenants for ridiculously low prices. Back in the Thatcher days a flat worth £160k could be bought from the Council for £18k. Fact!

Steve Taylor ● 31d

Sam, you make a poignant point about the proportion of immigrants doing great work in our hospitals, but when I see daily a predominantly collection of young fit males destined, at best, for the gig economy, not for boosting our hospital and caring staff.In the past decade 7.2 million migrants registered into the UKs General Practitioners.That is why people can't get expedient health appointments anymore.And don't get me started on housing shortages.

Denis I. Fox ● 31d

Yes it’s  wonderful that the NHS has 27 different nationalities to treat our 19 different ethic groups and over 100 nationalities using the NHS. It’s just such a shame that we have been forced to import so many medical staff and carers, at extremely high cost, to replace all those wonderful EU citizens who were no longer welcome after the Brexit vote. Well done to Rishi Sunak for getting net migration down to 471,000.  Still nowhere near the lower levels of France, Italy, Spain and Greece but imagine how many tens of thousands would have been deterred if Rishi’s Rwanda deal had gone ahead. Such a pity that under Deer Keir and Yvette Cooper the illegal immigrants arriving by small boat across the channel has increased to unprecedented levels. I wonder how many will end up working in our NHS and how many will turn to crime or join the black economy or even the gig economy.

Steve Taylor ● 31d

Brilliantly summed up and so near the mark

Peter King ● 31d

Apologies..'Starmer has gone for the low hanging fruit..'

Keith Iddon ● 31d

I was surprised and dismayed that Starmer's recent pronouncement on trying to contol immigration figures made no mention of the type of immigration that is of most concern,ie:the migration of the undocumented to our shores.As it stands,anyone can arrive,gve any name they wish and say they are from wherever they wish.Some adults even claim to be 15 or 16 years of age abd have attended schools..This is the mess that needs sortimg first and continuing to allow the situation as it stands is the extreme position,not the reaction against it.I put the blame for the rise of Reform fairly and squarely on Blair's government and the subsequent Tory administrations who both chose to do absolutely nothing about it,save the last gasp Rwanda scheme,to address the cocerns of many millions of people up and down the country.Perhaps if some asylum hostels containing 95% young men with unknown pasts were opened in Westminster,Kensington and Chiswick,the chattering classes would appreciate what the day to day lived experience of millions of law abiding and tax paying citizens who live in the less affluent parts is and how their villges,towns and cities have changed.Starmer has gone for the lowing fruit in this policy and put off the hard wotk that has long been overdue for goodness knows when,the 12th of never probably.

Keith Iddon ● 31d

Good point Keith. It is clear that no one, least of all the Office for National Statistics has a clue on what the real figure for illegal immigration is. Much will be made of the year on year reduction in net migration figur. Down to 431,000 in 2024 (almsot half the 2023 total). Most of this is attributable to changes introduced by a bloke called Rishi Sunak.

Sam Hearn ● 31d

I am sure we all appreciate the contribution that legal and qualified immigrants make to our public services.I certainly do,but I am not so sure about those who come here illegally and without credentials,passports or documents.

Keith Iddon ● 31d

I was chatting with with an old friend this morning who has recently been through major heart surgery at a local NHS hospital. He informed me that the hospital staff that he had contact with during his stay came from at least 27 different countries. All, without exception were professional, hardworking and with a pleasant demeanour. "Immigrants" he said "God bless them".

Sam Hearn ● 31d

The majority in the country are anti immigration. Why do you think Reform are winning elections and why do you think Deer Keir is desperate to show the country that he is anti immigration.

Steve Taylor ● 32d

Says someone who has an identity crisis.Allegedly.

Keith Iddon ● 32d

What a right wing forum this is.Anti-immigrationAnti-scienceAnti-factMakes you realise how many people must still think Mussolini was a decent guy.

Dave Mannisa ● 32d

The person posing as ‘Dave’ is a recruiter for Reform members. Every utterance he makes and people are flocking to join Reform. He’s very good at his job.

Steve Taylor ● 32d

Whatever,or more appropriately whoever.Are you playing Stan to his Ollie?

Keith Iddon ● 32d

It's not Dave..

Michael Brown ● 32d

I think Brian and Dave are 'away with the fairies' as they say.

Keith Iddon ● 32d

Oh Ollie..

Michael Brown ● 32d

They are wanted - I would have thought I made that obvious. Most will have excellent skills - such as the ability to break up paragraphs that are too long.Another skill a lot will have is not to make assumptions about putting refugees above homeless people when someone has never said that. In conclusion, many are already far more skilled than some people in this conversation.

Dave Mannisa ● 33d

If you've done that then you need your head checked carefully to see if there is any sign of a brain. I don't hold out too much hope though. Where are all these unwanted individuals going to live? What skills have they got to offer? Why do you put refugees above our own homeless people? We don't want them, and we don't need them, now or in the future, unless of course they have a particular and relevant skill. If you want them, then put them all up in your house. And who are all these people you say are pining for the days of empire?

Brian Coyle ● 33d

Thanks for the links, Sam.

Stewart Jones ● 33d

Thanks Michael, strange events that followed then.

Janice Evans ● 33d

For those interested in helping refugees in our borough:1. Refugees Welcome Hounslow is now a registered charity run by volunteers and has helped over 50 families to learn English, integrate into our Society and find jobs. www.refugeeswelcomehounslow.org.uk/2. The Afghanistan and Central Asian Association (ACAA) - also based in the borough and provides a whole range of services to these specific communities. www.acaa.org.uk/who-we-are/

Sam Hearn ● 33d

Janice - when the flood subsided, the family hired a generator and pump, and managed to get the boat afloat. The boat then went missing for months, and I was told the other day that it was stolen and stripped of parts, and then returned to the same mooring point! I don't know how true that is but the boat just sits there now, like a floating wreck, and I have no idea where the owner now lives. Thanks for asking..

Michael Brown ● 33d

Sorry to change the subject, Michael what happened to the man whose houseboat sank.

Janice Evans ● 33d

Oliver?

Michael Brown ● 33d

Why do we need more refugees?

Brian Coyle ● 33d

It's David, "Michael"

Dave Mannisa ● 33d

Come on, 'Dave', what's your real name?

Michael Brown ● 33d

I put the donation through "on behalf of everyone on the Chiswick W4 Forum" and added "refugees always welcome in Chiswick" in the comments section.

Dave Mannisa ● 33d

Ah yes and the donations go to………?Anyway if you’re happy to throw money down the drain or line the pockets of Charity Directors then so be it but it would have been a much more worthwhile option to have wasted a day going to Folkestone or Deal just to find out that the refugees have sprinted in the latest Nike trainers into the Black economy and into the welcoming arms of criminal gangs. So happy to have deserted their wives, children, girlfriends and sisters in Africa and the Middle East.

Steve Taylor ● 33d

What's your view about what happened to the flotilla of boats that had set out from Ramsgate yesterday - 65 of them - to commemorate the 85th anniversary of the rescue of British forces from Dunkirk?

Brian Coyle ● 33d

Have just donated to a refugee charity instead. Let's hope we get more refugees in and those who pine for the days of empire move to Donald's US.

Dave Mannisa ● 34d

The Warren at Folkestone or the beach at Kingsdown, near Deal. You'll find loads, but you'd better be quick before they all disappear. You wouldn't want that would you?

Brian Coyle ● 34d

Do you know where most of the immigrants arrived to in the UK? I have a day off so would love to head down, take some gifts, food etc. and welcome them.If you could let me know it would be appreciated.

Dave Mannisa ● 34d

Traitor, Starmer, hopes to get the Chagos Islands giveaway deal signed off, today, and then have the British Tax payer rent an island back at the cost of £millions every year.Meanwhile, another 800+ illegal immigrants in small boats were welcomed to the UK yesterday to help further destroy UK society. A similar amount are expected today and tomorrow.No guns, fighter jets or tanks are needed anymore to take away a country's sovereignty, wealth and democracy; you just need to put a traitor in place, as have The New World Order in this government and the previous. The whole of Europe is being destroyed, as anyone can now see. Donald is giving them problems though, and he's probably our only hope, along with Nigel..

Michael Brown ● 34d

Michael Brown has a point and I understand it.  What's your point?  Having a bad day?

V Killick ● 34d

an 'island of strangers' no less. But looks like the police think the 'enemy within' is those who have concerns about the rise of anti-semitism and who read 'Brexity things'!https://www.thejc.com/news/police-apologise-to-pensioner-after-arresting-him-for-tweeting-about-antisemitism-l5kbalgu

Davy Jones ● 41d

Nevertheless I understood and agreed with his sentiment.

V Killick ● 41d

Now they're saying he's the new Enoch Powell - didnt think we was a red in the bed

Davy Jones ● 42d

It's true.

Janice Evans ● 45d

Not strictly true. A lot of people in Cuba under Castro, for example, were given their own plots of land and many used the land to grow food. When you speak to some people in Havana, they have a far better understanding of food subsistence than we do.

Dave Mannisa ● 46d

Communist countries always have food shortages, food security is very important.

Janice Evans ● 46d

If you think he is a communist, God knows how you would survive in an actual communist country.

Dave Mannisa ● 46d

Harmer is a Fabian which is far worse than a Communist. You’re Welcome!

bobby osborne ● 46d

Mikhail, I don't have much time for Starmer, but to call him a Communist just shows your ignorance.

Richard Greenhough ● 49d

Brigadier, you may as well support Communist, Starmer, now that the Tory Party, who you once loved so much, has become another Communist Party, having been infiltrated by the NWO, which I predicted years ago, and you laughed. It's all Reform now, to put paid to Communism in the UK..

Michael Brown ● 49d

Mikhail McBean, you seem to lack the ability to make your comments clearly understandable. The deal is for Indians working short-term in the UK, and for Brits working short-term in India, to avoid them having to pay NI in both countries on the same earnings. Why you should think that English people working in the UK should get special NI treatment (let alone Welsh, Scots and Irish) when they are not being double-charged is a mystery. Only a fool would equate the two.

Richard Greenhough ● 49d

No such offers yet announced for English people - in the UK, you fool, Brigadier (Greenbean Gintrough).

Michael Brown ● 49d

No good trying diversionary tactics, McBean - your statement was wrong. Shame you can't admit your error.

Richard Greenhough ● 49d

Brits are flocking to India to work, Brigadier..

Michael Brown ● 49d

Brown pointlessly stirring the brown again.

Keith Iddon ● 49d

According to the Daily Telegraph, British workers in India will have the same benefit.

Richard Greenhough ● 49d

Meanwhile, the treasonous Two-Tier-Keir announces NI tax break for Indians wanting to migrate to the UK. No such offers yet announced for English people..

Michael Brown ● 49d

I rather enjoyed Michael's literary contribution to today's events.

Chris Blackwell ● 51d