Forum Topic

Hogarth Roundabout - more congestion in Chiswick - please email opposition to TfL's proposals

Hello everyone. This is my first post on here, as it's not my kind of thing usually, but I am astonished at TfL's proposals for Hogarth Roundabout. Sorry if I’m a little late to the party, but my bone of contention is not Church Road (I'll mention it briefly below), but the "Advance Stop Lines" that TfL is proposing on all entrances to the roundabout - these will slow the flow of traffic through the roundabout and cause more congestion on Chiswick Lane (when you try to leave Chiswick) and on the A316 (when you are trying to get home).What is an "Advance Stop Line"?   It's the white box at the front of the traffic lights with a bicycle painted in it that allows cyclists to pull away ahead of cars. I quite like them when I am cycling - in some places they really do improve safety. But they won't on Hogarth Roundabout!Why? Because no cyclists will use them! I cycle this area frequently and every cyclist I have ever seen leaves Chiswick Lane, or the A316, and passes under the roundabout through the underpass (or they use one of the several other underpasses both east and west of the roundabout. So why has TfL put them in its design?  For goodness sake, they have even put Advance Stop Lines in their design across 3 and 4 lanes of the A4! The A4 has a combined cyclepath/pavement along each side of it, which I use regularly - I have never - in decades - seen a cyclist on the main carriageway. What on earth are TfL thinking - it's ideology gone mad!Instead, what these Advance Stop Lines will do is reduce the flow of traffic through the roundabout in each light phase as cars, vans, motorbikes will have further to travel before they reach the roundabout. This will cause more congestion on Chiswick Lane and the A316 in particular.  Chiswick Lane is already frequently backed up to the High Road; the A316 backs up past Cavendish and Chiswick schools frequently. What TfL proposes will only make getting out of Chiswick even worse, and pour even more pollutants into these school sites.  Frankly, I think it's one of the most stupid things I have ever seen a government propose (and after the last lot that takes something!).  TfL is actually going to spend money on something that will never be used and overall make things worse!So, please send a short email to TfL (haveyoursay@tfl.gov.uk) opposing their plans to put "Advance Stop Lines" on Hogarth Roundabout.Thank you. I hope I don't attract the opprobrium of the cycling lobby who seem to lurk on these pages, but surely even they use the underpass too?!As for Church Street, I can't see why they can't add a fourth lane to the A4 turning left into the A316 and still have a direct access and exit from Church Street.  TfL's proposal seems dangerous to me - anyone turning into the new Church Road entrance will stop or slow all traffic on the A316 (which it doesn't presently), which will then back up onto the roundabout - the most dangerous part of Hogarth Roundabout in my view is when traffic queueing to reach the A316 forces eastbound A4 traffic down to 2 lanes on the roundabout - that's quite scary and will potentially be worse with the TfL proposal.And for what it's worth - why are they adding more cycle parking and benches? Are they expecting the roundabout to become a destination?! Put the benches in and the cycle parking near Chiswick House please and stop wasting money!Honestly, I don't know what's going on at TfL - maybe they gave this one to the summer intern to do!

Nigel Williams ● 82d32 Comments

I have not seen anything written here or mentioned in the 4 presentations about the drivers who change lanes to maximise reduction in travel time on their journey to M4. At present they drive in outside lane approaching the roundabout as it is the fastest lane.  At a point they determine by observation they move over to the middle then nearside lane as that becomes the fastest lane because drivers heading for A316 are able to travel faster, and so they can too. Then, at a point of their choice, they either remain in that lane and swing hard around towards A4, or even move back to middle lane to facilitate this manoevre. At present the traffic leaves the roundabout for A316 reasonably fast as people heading for Chiswick Mall and Lane have by then turned off into Church Lane. In 17 years I have never seen a single vehicle of any description turning left after the roundabout into the street in front of the pub.  This is a 168 degree turn and as the traffic leaving the roundabout for A316 accelerates away they will be needing to brake hard to avaid crashing into those turning left.  It is the only entrance into the roads where their homes are. Far from being a reduction in accidents I foresee an increase. What will be confusing is that drivers turning left onto A316 and then turning left in front of the pub wont have time while using their indicators to show drivers behind them that they are conducting 2 seperate turns. I foresee increase in drivers shunting those ahead turning left. But these accidents will likely be at a low speed so perhaps that is acceptable?? Is that what the planners are allowing for?

James Petri ● 74d

Here is a copy of the article in full.TfL forced to apologise for made-up accident statisticsThe Sunday Telegraph8 Sep 2024By Steve BirdFather Simon Brandes of St Nicholas Church in Chiswick is worried that TfL plans to make a major roundabout safer could mean funerals and weddings will not be able to negotiate a hairpin bend‘These changes will help reduce road danger at Hogarth, particularly for motorcyclists’TRANSPORT for London (TfL) has been forced to issue an apology after using “made-up” data to justify a multi-million pound upgrade to a major roundabout.Sadiq Khan’s transport authority insisted that Hogarth Roundabout in Chiswick, West London, needed “increased space for walking and cycling” to help achieve the mayor’s goal of “eliminating death and serious injury” from the capital’s roads.An online consultation said the £5 million works – which included reducing speed limits from 40mph to 30mph – were necessary due to the high number of motorcyclists injured at that spot on the busy A4.Documents claimed TfL statisticians had found that during just 18 months – from January 2022 to June 2023 – there were 25 slight, and five serious, motorcycle collisions at the roundabout.Penny Rees, TfL’s head of Healthy Streets Investment, told the consultation: “These proposed changes will help reduce road danger at Hogarth Roundabout, particularly for motorcyclists.”Chiswick residents, surprised by the suggestion that almost two motorcyclists were being injured every month, submitted Freedom of Information requests for accurate data.They established that TfL had inflated the motorcycle collision rate tenfold, getting the time period and the number of motorcyclists involved completely wrong.Instead of 25 slight, and five serious, motorcyclist injuries, there were in fact only five slight, and one serious, injuries at that roundabout.And, rather than being over 18 months, the six motorcycle collisions took place over 36 months: double the time frame.It meant the true motorcycle collision rate was 0.17 per month, not the 1.7 TfL had claimed. TfL updated its online consultation with the accurate data and apologised for the “error”.It has now extended the consultation by one week, until Sept 12, after which it will decide whether to approve the scheme.Jack Emsley, Hounslow Conservative councillor for the Chiswick Homefields ward, said that the mistake was “scandalous” and had “eroded trust” in TfL. The councillor‘Hogarth Roundabout ranks in the capital’s top 10 per cent of junctions in terms of road safety risk’said he wholeheartedly backed measures to make roads safer, adding: “This means, though, that we need to be able to trust the information given to us by TfL when being consulted on issues like these.“It’s a real scandal that TfL got its figures so incredibly wrong for this consultation, and seemingly only corrected them following a Freedom of Information request from local residents.“Sadly, inaccurate statistics now seem to be a pattern across a number of TfL consultations, and it is eroding trust in the organisation.“I don’t know how TfL arrived at its original figures, which were so inaccurate that they look almost made-up, but I do know that it now calls into question the reasoning behind the initial proposals.”In June, TfL was forced to apologise and update an official safety review into the dangers posed to pedestrians by cyclists on “floating” bus stops after an investigation into its data revealed “glaring omissions”.TfL had initially claimed only four pedestrians were injured – two seriously – between 2020 and 2022 at bus stops where a cycle lane runs between the stop and the pavement, and a zebra crossing is installed in the hope cyclists will give wayBut analysis by The Telegraph and the National Federation of the Blind of the UK established there were in fact six collisions, three serious, at the city’s floating bus stops.Referring to the Hogarth Roundabout “errors”, Ms Rees from TfL said: “There is an urgent need to tackle danger at Hogarth Roundabout, which ranks amongst the capital’s top 10 per cent of junctions in terms of road safety risk.“The decision to proceed with a consultation for the scheme was based on this analysis, rather than the figures that were published in our consultation materials.“We apologise for publishing incorrect figures and we have made everyone who had responded to the consultation aware.”

Adrian Irving ● 74d

An extract from the article below;"These changes will help reduce road danger at Hogarth, particularly for motorcyclists’TRANSPORT for London (TfL) has been forced to issue an apology after using “made-up” data to justify a multi-million pound upgrade to a major roundabout.Sadiq Khan’s transport authority insisted that Hogarth Roundabout in Chiswick, West London, needed “increased space for walking and cycling” to help achieve the mayor’s goal of “eliminating death and serious injury” from the capital’s roads.An online consultation said the £5 million works – which included reducing speed limits from 40mph to 30mph – were necessary due to the high number of motorcyclists injured at that spot on the busy A4.Documents claimed TfL statisticians had found that during just 18 months – from January 2022 to June 2023 – there were 25 slight, and five serious, motorcycle collisions at the roundabout.Penny Rees, TfL’s head of Healthy Streets Investment, told the consultation: “These proposed changes will help reduce road danger at Hogarth Roundabout, particularly for motorcyclists.”Chiswick residents, surprised by the suggestion that almost two motorcyclists were being injured every month, submitted Freedom of Information requests for accurate data.They established that TfL had inflated the motorcycle collision rate tenfold, getting the time period and the number of motorcyclists involved completely wrong.Instead of 25 slight, and five serious, motorcyclist injuries, there were in fact only five slight, and one serious, injuries at that roundabout.And, rather than being over 18 months, the six motorcycle collisions took place over 36 months: double the time frame.It meant the true motorcycle collision rate was 0.17 per month, not the 1.7 TfL had claimed. TfL updated its online consultation with the accurate data and apologised for the “error”.It has now extended the consultation by one week, until Sept 12, after which it will decide whether to approve the scheme. "

Adrian Irving ● 75d