Forum Topic

Grove Park fine value tops £26 million

The following article claims this is the total amount of fines issued for the Grove Park restrictions.https://www.msn.com/en-za/news/world/council-accused-of-targeting-school-run-parents-after-issuing-26m-in-ltn-fines/ar-BB1jdIH3I found the angle taken in this report quite perplexing. The school in the area is a secondary school and relatively few parents drive their children to school and those that do are aware of the restriction.Generally my impression is that people living in the area, now that exemptions have been widened, are only mildly put out by the restrictions and the occasional annoyance is off set by the reduced traffic. However, the figure in this article that caused my jaw to drop was the number of cases in which bailiffs had been used. It totals 13,000 and the council had to pause sending out bailiffs because they didn't have the capacity to handle the volume.This represents 13,000 cases of individual misery and people whose lives have got into such a state that they didn't have the means to pay a £130 fine. Now they have burly men knocking on their doors to take away their possessions. For Cllr Dunne to suggest this is okay because 88% of people fined aren't locals shows a loss of perspective as the numbers suggest at least 1,000 local people have had the bailiffs set on them. It is very probable that we aren't hearing much about this despite the huge scale because they are ashamed of what has happened to them.

Diane Brown ● 66d110 Comments

Michael, I can't really disagree with what you say. It is probably the case that many people caught may have driven on the roads before but at different times. Take for an example a moped rider working for Deliveroo - they could have done dozens of runs into Grove Park after 7pm before getting an unusually early order which has got them fined. As most of them drive with L plates they may not understand the meaning of access restriction signs.However, I don't think the relative culpability of the person being fined is the relevant issue here. Whether the signs are ineffective in making motorists aware of the restrictions or a large number of people are driving without due care is a different debate. The problem is the lack of a safety net in the enforcement and collection of fines. As far as I am aware the way Hounslow Council does it is a straight line process in that the bailiffs are automatically called in after a certain term of non-payment. This could mean the confiscation of a person's bike or car or other tools of their trade which will make it impossible for them to continue to earn to pay the fine and the other debts. The PCN could actually be a small proportion of the debts of an individual but it will be, as in the case of Jerome Rogers, the one that leads to a crisis in someone's life. I understand that it is really important to you that 'bad motorists'should be punished but isn't Hounslow Council getting to the point were, in some cases, this is excessive.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 55d

Despite the original poster being at pains to say that the issue here isn’t Grove Park traffic restrictions but the duty of care a local authority might have to people who it is demanding money from, some people are so blinkered they are unable to see the wider picture.Paul Campbell can perhaps be forgiven because he is like an excited puppy when he gets to use the word ‘motornormativity’ and John Hall seems to have swung from a basic lack of common empathy to accusing everyone using a motorised vehicle of injuring children.They don’t want people to talk about Hounslow Council’s use of bailiffs because they see in it an implied criticism of LTNs but it should be perfectly possible to enforce restrictions in a less irresponsible way. The borough has clearly lost sight of the original purpose of these schemes and now sees them as playing a role in revenue maximisation and damn the consequences.The majority of people getting fines and ending up with bailiffs at their door will be people on low incomes particularly gig economy workers. Before Covid, a 20-year-old moped delivery rider called Jerome Rogers took his own life after bailiffs working on behalf of Camden Council confiscated his bike. He had not paid two parking tickets. Without the ability to earn an income his debts built up and he took his own life. He had no history of mental health problems.Like most delivery riders, Jerome probably didn’t have a good knowledge of the Highway Code because he wasn’t making enough to take and pass his test. Mr Hall might like to ponder than next time his falafel arrives from Deliveroo.After Jerome’s death various charities called for more regulation to protect people from bailiffs and a code of practice for local authorities in chasing up debts. Nothing appears to have been done. With councils under intense pressure financially, they have ramped up attempts to maximise incomes from fines and Hounslow Council appears to be particularly aggressive in this regard.It is out of the question that Hounslow Council, given the industrial scale on which they are instructing bailiffs to act, could be exercising any duty of care towards the people who they are chasing for money. As I have mentioned previously, there are many more steps that privatised utilities and other organisations have to go through before they can bring in the bailiffs including mitigation and referral to independent third parties for advice. As far as I am aware, Hounslow will go through a process in which a fine is issue and more letters are sent with bailiffs automatically brought in with no attempt to find out anything about the circumstances of the person whose life they might be ruining. If you genuinely believe that the huge increase in use of bailiffs by Hounslow doesn’t represent a significant social injustice and presents the risk of more tragic cases such as Jerome’s, then you should argue your case. However, don’t try to distract from the issue by pointing in the opposite direction and going ‘blah, blah,  motornormativity’ or ‘what about the children?’.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 57d