Forum Topic

Acton Lane Bus Gate Removal - good idea, never gonna happen

My hot take on the latest round of proposals from Hounslow Council is that there are some good intentions here but I can't see them ever been implemented.It is encouraging them to see them taking on board the issues that residents have experienced around Wellesley Road have experienced due to the Acton Land bus gate but I'd be very surprised to see TfL stumping up the cash needed for the changes given that it delivers very little net benefit to them. There are a couple of nasties lurking in these new proposals as well including the loss of all the zebras on the High Road. I can see the argument for signalised crossings but ultimately this is a loss of pedestrian priority.

Francis Rowe ● 618d29 Comments

Everyone has a slightly different perception of speed, so unless you have a speed camera it is impossible to be definitive as to what speed people are doing.All I know is that I use that road most days of the week and I am not seeing the race track others refer to.  Not saying everyone is obeying the 20 mph speed limit but my perception is that the vast majority are driving reasonably close to it.  I would not be surprised if the vast majority were doing 20-25mph.Of course there is always one idiot, usually in large SUV, who does more but I would hope everyone would agree that such drivers are idiots.I should also state for the record I turn off onto Burlington Road, so I have no idea what the speed is like from Burlington Road to Oxford Road North - between Sutton Lane North and Burlington Road it is hard to speed, just too many parked cars and at least one bad pinch point but as I said there will always be one idiot who tries

Justin Stephenson ● 612d

Oops should have checked my last post, but I think you get my drift. Guessing is not a fair measure, certainly not in legal terms

Maggie Dodge ● 614d

Whilst I get your point Jeremy , you are starting off at the assumption that you know you are pootling at 10mph, and going from there. So there’s my order blemish. Of course us drivers don’t have the benefit of guessing, couple of miles out a d we’re fined. Never mind, not an argument I will win I think 😂

Maggie Dodge ● 614d

I tootle along at around 10 mph and I know that 20mph is the speed that an athlete would sprint at so it is easy to judge when a vehicle is coming at you too fast.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 614d

Most cyclists have no way of knowing what theirs or anyone else’s speed is do they Cllr.

Maggie Dodge ● 614d

I think 'racetrack' is an exaggeration but having cycled down Wellesley yesterday I was overtaken by several cars who were driving at well over 30MPH - my estimate is nearer 40, though we all have flawed estimation of speeds - well, I do anyway

Guy Lambert ● 614d

If I am cycling on Welleseley Road and see a vehicle approaching in the distance travelling above the speed limit, I move out towards the centre of the road. This invariably encourages them to slow down. I don't believe the road is a race track but there is an issue with a generation of drivers who have grown up with the notion that 30mph is slow enough of residential streets.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 614d

Philippa, I wish more people used the same level-headed reasoning you've shown in your post. Across the board.

Francis Sheehan ● 614d

Yes, there are still drivers who haven't grasped the rules of the road.  There are also some roads which should probably be 'no overtaking' since drivers don't or won't leave enough distance and don't seem to think they should wait until there is more and enough space.There is definitely lot of faster traffic at school pick-up times.  So keeping it away from school children and creating more and better crossings is to be encouraged.

Philippa Bond ● 614d

I don’t know why anyone cycles considering how dangerous it appears to be. I suppose that’s why there’s this drive to make driving difficult to force us off the roads. Maybe it should be cyclists, the minority group,  who should be convinced to walk instead. Just a thought.

Maggie ● 615d

I use it twice a day (by bike) when commuting, from the roundabout where Rhythm n Brews is to the junction with Kew Bridge. On my way out there's only me, on the way back home there's a few cars short-cutting towards Oxford Road north. Personally, the biggest annoyances I've found are cars turning into or out of Wellesley road without giving me right of way, or tight overtakes by drivers. And the evergreen "open the door without checking the mirrors". But speed's never been an issue, at least in my personal experience.

Francis Sheehan ● 615d

I can scarcely believe what I am seeing here- Hounslow council actually listening to residents? If that useless bus gate does get removed - Hallelujah- could they also remove the entire C9 whilst they are at it? And reopen Fishers Lane to traffic?? No- am waking up now - must have all been a dream.

Sarah Potter ● 615d

"Wellesley Rd is still really busy around committing time. When it's not commuting time it's used as a racetrack"As someone who cycles up that road at least 5 times a week to the gym (and then back again), I am intrigued.  When exactly is it used as a racetrack?  Because all I see on my journeys is light traffic travelling at moderate speed around the 20 mph speed limit with very occasionally an idiot doing over 30 mph.  Maybe it is mid afternoon school run Mums who are the boy racers

Justin Stephenson ● 615d

http://www.chiswickw4.com/default.asp?section=info&page=cyclehighway092.htmSeems like a very reasonable proposal to me so probably means it won’t happen. It’s easy to forget what the original C9 plan looked like rather than the dog’s breakfast we currently have.

Michael Good ● 616d

Philippa, near misses with cyclists don’t count as a danger, according to the veloraptors on here.As usual Michael Robinson wants all his Christmases and birthdays at once. He must have had s very deprived childhood.

Simon Hayes ● 616d

That is something we should be campaigning for.  Then we could also have all those speeding drivers around schools fined too.It's also time that all transport stopped at zebras and light controlled crossings.  I have twice nearly been hit while crossing at light controlled crossings because cyclists just chose to ignore and weave through the pedestrians or just overtake all the already stopped cars because they could when they couldn't see that there were already pedestrians part way across the road.It's a bit easier with cars because you wait until they slow and stop before you start crossing!  Something I do with both zebras and light controlled crossings.

Philippa Bond ● 616d

It's a police matter - no powers for Local Authorities to enforce. Wandsworth Council tried to enforce but have been stopped by the Department for Transport https://www.mylondon.news/news/south-london-news/south-london-council-blocked-fining-26185674

Guy Lambert ● 617d

The odd day of enforcing the 20mph limit on Wellesley would generate quite a lot of revenue

Roger Francis ● 617d

Wellesley Rd is still really busy around committing time. When it's not commuting time it's used as a racetrack.

Basil Finnis ● 617d

Yes, clearly preventing access to the S Circular has led to a reduction of westbound traffic on Wellesley however there still is westbound traffic using Wellesley then Oxford Rd N to bypass the lights on Chiswick High Rd.The increase in eastbound traffic won't be solely because of the bus gate because there was also a 'loophole' that allowed traffic to turn right from the S Circular onto Stile Hall Gardens and avoiding Chiswick roundabout completely, but this was banned a couple of months ago.I agree that Wellesley shouldn't be used as a bypass for Chiswick High Rd.  There are 4 or 5 traffic lights along Chiswick High Rd (including pedestrian crossings) but none along Wellesley so clearly an incentive for drivers to avoid Chiswick High Rd in both directions.A certain local cllr certainly won't be supporting a low traffic neighbourhood for the area so it will be up to residents to make the point to the council.

Michael Robinson ● 617d

THanks Michael. So although there is overal net reduction for Wellesley, the westbound fall is expected given closures at junction of south circular. The eastbound is a 50% increase and very clearly due to the bus gate and given this stretch of CS9 is effectively a quiet way, its traffic that really should be staying on a major A road. Its very misleading of TFL to have not presented more data.Heathfield Gardens sees a lot of traffic, some form of blocking at the bottom would sort it if local residents supported it.

Bill George ● 617d

The Hounslow documentation provides a summary.  I don't have the source surveys - if you email the transport department they should provide these. They have for other surveys I've asked for.For Wellesley Rd at the mini-roundabout with Sutton Lane N, the counts were:2018 westbound: 25392023 westbound: 15002018 eastbound: 10202023 eastbound: 1540So a reduction of ~1000 westbound, increase of ~500 eastbound for a net reduction of ~500 or ~15%.For Heathfield Gdns2018 southbound: 3852023 southbound: 7542018 northbound: 19522023 northbound: 1399So a small net reduction and the major flow is coming from the A4.  Turn the street into a cul de sac by putting a planter at the end by the mini-roundabout...?

Michael Robinson ● 617d

I prefer light-controlled crossings which give both pedestrians and vehicles a fair turn. Plus motorists are more likely to heed them.

Susan Kelly ● 617d

Michael, do you have access to dates and values for these traffic counts? Whether or not traffic is somewhat lower on Heathfield Gardens, it was already high and a number of concerns were raised about this and CS9, including by LCC. There is undoubtedly a steady stream of traffic, especially in mornings using Wellesley Road eastbound, not just via Oxford Rd but also Burlington Rd. One reason TFL have installed raised entry treatments there.I thought we were told that 'temporary' meausures of CS9 could be removed?

Bill George ● 618d

Francis,IMO the key words regarding the proposed additional measures are "subject to funding" so cheaper items may get done but more expensive items are by no means certain.Overall, there is less traffic on Wellesley Rd compared to before the cycle lane. There is an increase of traffic on Oxford Rd N but that isn't a surprise.  The original C9 decision included a commitment for funding from TfL for mitigation measures resulting from stopping access to the S Circular but that disappeared with Covid.Through traffic on Wellesley Rd when the traffic counts were done would have been one of the following:1. Westbound accessing Chiswick roundabout via Oxford Rd N2. Eastbound bypassing Chiswick roundabout via Stile Hall Gardens3. Eastbound bypassing the bus gate via Oxford Rd N2. was a result of an oversight by TfL that meant a right turn from the S Circular into Stile Hall Gardens was still possible; this has now been banned but this traffic existed when the survey was done.Removal of the bus gate may mean a reduction of 3. but won't do anything about 1.  If Wellesley Rd residents really wanted an even more significant reduction of traffic in the area there should be an overall 'low traffic neighbourhood' scheme that would prevent traffic in both directions using the street as a bypass for the traffic lights along Chiswick High Rd.Regarding replacement of the zebras, disability groups view signalled crossings as better than zebras because there is an audible and physical indication of when to cross.

Michael Robinson ● 618d

Light controlled ones are enforceable, and both vehicles and cyclists that dont comply can be fined.

Bill George ● 618d

Re Pedestrian Crossings:  I have often wondered which are safer:Zebras - where everyone should know that pedestrians have absolute priority but which many other road users ignore or try and share; or Light controlled ones - where road users speed up to race the changing lights or ignore altogether.  Both endanger the pedestrians waiting to cross or crossing.Both seem to be problematic.

Philippa Bond ● 618d

Interesting to see the the council actually accepts the view of many local residents in terms of the bus gate displacing traffic, as well as questioning TFL's interpretation of the traffic data. The 10 second saving in bus journey times that TFL claim it produces cover the journey distance as far as the Heathfield Terrace junction, but that stretch has much less traffic generally after Fishers Lane was closed and as a lot of traffic avoids the central stretch of CHR. So only a portion of the suggested 10 second 'saving' can really be attributed to the bus gate. The entire release from TFL read like PR rather than an objective report on the data.The bus gate also cannot offset the significant delays for eastbound buses (and other traffic) through the central stretch, which the council is proposing to address by implementing more of the measures originally proposed and consulted upon.

Bill George ● 618d

Apologies for double post - spotted my error in the title just after pressing submit.

Francis Rowe ● 618d