Forum Topic

Lime Bikes

Is there a Lime Bike scheme in Chiswick?  I'm seeing a lot randomly left around recently.is there an effective and efficient way to get them moved?  FixmyStreet?

Marie Power ● 591d36 Comments

Stations are exactly the places there could have a designated (space permitting) area.  I've seen a picture of a temporary stand for I think Dott scooters in Oxford which gives users a place to head for to park.The docking Santander sponsored ones now I understand include e-bikes.  We passed a whole lot of Santander bikes in their special parking/docking place in or near Rainville Road in Hammersmith the other day on our walk along the river. I'm pretty sure there is an even closer docking station than that as we saw quite a few in Chiswick in the summer. 

Philippa Bond ● 589d

Just wondering if the Council are still employing those people, dressed all in black, was it Kingdom? To fine people for feeding the birds with a crust off their sandwich, or littering in any way shape or form. £70 I think for a tiny piece of paper. Lots of stories a while back. One man fined for supposedly dropping a cigarette butt, and he proved he was a non smoker. The Council must be raking it in with these things littered everywhere

Maggie Dodge ● 589d

Three dotted across the pavement outside Chiswick Park station today, so I moved them. At least the original Santander bikes have official docking stations, presumably agreed with the local council. Despite what the new companies might say in their T&Cs, their clear impression and USP is that people can leave then 'anywhere' - so they do.

Peter Evans ● 589d

> Well I think that the fluorescent paint and reflective wheels show an effortBit more of an effort if you’re blind and fall over because one has been dropped in your way. Totally selfish West Coast concept to make a few bucks with a bit of Greenwash.

Russell Pearson ● 589d

Well I think that the fluorescent paint and reflective wheels show an effort.  Much more of an effort needs to be taken by the riders.  In other countries I'm sure there would be more effort made to find safer spots to park.I have actually wondered at times whether this isn't all part of some sort of crazy art project.

Philippa Bond ● 589d

> As David has so ably illustrated they are much more visible with reflective and fluorescent painted than a lot of pedestrians!Very handy if you’re sight impaired and it’s lying across a path. Never fails to amaze me how the less abled are disregarded by some.

Russell Pearson ● 589d

"Chiswick is really not known for poorly-behaving teenagers". We used to have ‘boys on bikes’  they were a real worry. Do we still have them? I think we have all sorts of theft, even knife crime but not sure I hear about boys on bikes locally

Maggie Dodge ● 589d

Gosh, Richard, not sure why the timing matters as a bike blocking access to a 24-hour bus stop and 24-hour pavements is just that, a bike blocking access. Especially for the visually impaired. And those with mobility problems. Or you'd rather they get up out of wheelchairs to move the bikes out of the way as you suggest?As to your point about the weight of the bikes, they are quite heavy so not prone to the wind blowing them over. I'm not sure why it should be a possible health and safety risk to the average person who might take it upon themselves to do the job of another and/or the council.

David Lesniak ● 589d

I'm intrigued to know when you took these photos, David, as there is an unusual lack of traffic to be seen on CHR. I have also come across some poorly-dumped (I hesitate to say "parked") bikes blocking the pavement, and my reaction is just to pick them up and move them to the side. Heavy wee beasties they are too.

Richard Greenhough ● 590d

'I still object in principle to these bike companies using public spaces, such as the pavement, to store and display their product and operate their business. If I come across one occupying the pavement it's tempting to move it into the road where vehicles are supposed to be.'Absolutely - these people are running a business to make money - so they should invest in education for users about how to leave bikes once they've finished with them, and if the bike gets reported as just dumped the council should have the powers to collect the bikes and charge the company to return them. Failing collection within seven days they should crush them. At the moment it's a win-win situation for these people, people get fined or prosecuted for fly tipping - how is this so different?

Vanessa Smith ● 590d

Sorry Julian but I remember complaints about Mobikes being so bright and brash when they were first introduced!As David has so ably illustrated they are much more visible with reflective and fluorescent painted than a lot of pedestrians!  This is something all of us pedestrians should reflect on now as the evenings draw in.Even so there needs to be more consideration given to where the best places to  leave them are since you are not allowed to take them onto your property so as to leave them available for the next person needing to use them.  Shared use being  important.  I don't believe they just fall over. Has nobody ever been to a corner shop where the local kids have just got off their bikes and dumped them in a pile on the pavement?  They always used to do that  - there weren't any railings or bike racks and they didn't have locks.  They probably don't do that now because they are afraid of losing them.

Philippa Bond ● 590d

" Keidy Pukk " explained"I am originally from a country that pretty much pioneered the bikes  and (more so) the scooters""In London, I live next to a 'bike parking site' and have so for a good few months now""I stay in central town"And finally remarked "Chiswick is really not known for poorly-behaving teenagers"Impressive local knowledge there, if I may say so Keidy,and you know this how, exactly ?michael adams

Michael Adams ● 590d

Keidy, I think you'll find the user demographic of bike hire skews towards your generation, not your grandfather's. That means the bikes left strewn about are largely the result of the careless, selfish, entitled behaviors from a younger generation. Not the wind. (one of my favorites as it blocks cyclists from using the merge on to Chiswick Lane and thus endangers them)

David Lesniak ● 590d

Per Peter's comment, any business wanting to use the pavement for display or seating would have to apply to the council with drawings and application. There is a filing fee in addition to a rental fee. Pre-Covid it was for a 6-month duration in LBH. Post-Covid I've yet to hear what the council is doing. Have rates gone back to where they were???Once the application is filed, there is a consultation period where people weigh in be it on the impact to the pavement width, potential noise, hours of operation, etc.Then we get the odd "inspection" where PCN's can be issued if a table leg falls mere inches outside of the usable area.These costs are borne by businesses and cover the council expense (and then some) of processing, policing and a per square meter rent. However, with bike hire international companies backed by venture capital pay absolutely nothing. Not even a service or admin fee. This translates into a complete loss for a councils having to clean up the mess.You hear quite a bit about levelling up. Pity it never happens when it comes to businesses accessing pavement for commercial use and capital gain.

David Lesniak ● 590d

I still object in principle to these bike companies using public spaces, such as the pavement, to store and display their product and operate their business. If I come across one occupying the pavement it's tempting to move it into the road where vehicles are supposed to be.

Peter Evans ● 590d

Has the Hall drunk a slurp too much of the Lime Bike Kool Aid?

Russell Pearson ● 590d

David Lesniak explained " They will not care one whit about what problem you are having unless it has to do with their uptake in use and revenue. After that, it is free advertising if their bikes are left here, there and everywhere."You might have imagined though, that somebody would be legally liable if someone obstructed the pavement in such a way as to create a trip hazard, and thus cause someone an injury.In fact it appears Lime place all responsibility on tne rider and are generally obstructive. This is from an article in the "Guardian from 2019 which concerns someone whose car was damaged by a parked bike, and complained to Lime"Finally, after almost a month, came a statement in which the company denied any liability. Instead, it put the blame for the damage firmly on the last person to ride the bike. But, rather unhelpfully, it said it would not divulge their name unless you were able to provide the company with a “court-ordered subpoena”." https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/jun/03/lime-e-bike-company-wont-pay-for-900-damage-to-my-car  michael adams   

Michael Adams ● 590d

"The trial rental bikes you see out and about are much much brighter and more noticeable than your graphic" Dam,must do better........Mmm

Julian Pavey ● 590d

E bikes obviously fool

Basil Finnis ● 590d

Julian. The trial rental bikes you see out and about are much much brighter and more noticeable than your graphic.  This it appears instead of being appreciated for making them less of an obstruction actually adds to the problem.  Unfortunately if they were to fit in with a lot of Chiswick that would make them even more dangerous!  That is not to say that the management and use of them is the best that it could and should be.

Philippa Bond ● 590d

Anne, can you rank these sources of harm? -Some E-bikes left on pavements during their roll-out -Toxic air pollution in London -Rising sea levels

John Hall ● 590d

DONT YOU DARE LEAVE IT THERE

Julian Pavey ● 590d

For once we agree Anne

Maggie Dodge ● 590d

Re your last sentence, not everywhere has wide pavements. I live in Brentford, cycle and don't have a car, but am frequently enough somewhat annoyed by whoever leaving a Lime bike in the middle of a rather narrow pavement. That is selfish and thoughtless behaviour, end of.

Anne England ● 590d

I am originally from a country that pretty much pioneered the bikes  and (more so) the scooters. They are in every part of the town in every larger town. Everywhere. Hundreds. And they're the best thing since sliced bread! The town I'm from has free public transport, and yet the scooters are incredibly popular. I walk *a lot*, but god is it convenient to be able to grab a scooter outside your house when you're in a rush or the distances are a bit too long, and be able to just leave it when you arrive. Back home, there are areas where you can't park (red zones). I don't know what the consequence is as I've always searched for the correct spot, but I believe it's a fine. Same for driving through restricted zones I guess. I've definitely seen people do that, so to a degree the machine must work, but given that they're so far and few in between, I imagine there is something in it to deter most people. You do also have to take a photo to park it correctly, and I think you get discounts for good parking. In London, I live next to a 'bike parking site' and have so for a good few months now. What deters me from using them is not knowing if I can just leave them once I'm done, so I for one am overjoyed to see the bikes on the streets, indicating it is now possible. However, it's funny how generational divide does not know borders. I can only imagine that it's coming from the older generation who doesn't understand it, doesn't want to understand it and thinks it's got no use for them, so what do they do? Go try to complain to council or the media. Similarly, to this post, there was a media uproar about 'bikes being left everywhere' and how dangerous and what a nuisance they are. I stay in central town so as soon as I saw these articles I started to look out for whether that was actually true and it wasn't. There was the odd scooter that had fallen over (probably wind), but most were very politely parked out of the way as much as possible, and if it was a larger open space (not actual pavement!), even though it wasn't a designated parking area, other people would just follow the lead and park theirs next to an existing one. I imagine there'd be some more family-oriented areas where teenagers cause a bit more havoc, but none that I could see. Chiswick is really not known for poorly-behaving teenagers and the few bikes I've seen, I've yet to see one in the middle of the road.Maybe go try it, you might like it. I got my grandad to ride one, and he absolutely loved it and couldn't wait to tell my grandma. And unless there's 20 of them genuinely in the middle of your road home, then maybe you can learn to walk past one. And pre-empting the mobility/visually impaired argument - if they are on the side of the road, there is plenty of space to walk past! Chiswick has relatively wide pavements, the odd bike here or there is no different to a bin left out for collection or a mother with a pram stopping for something.

Keidy Pukk ● 590d

Maggie, I can't say what, if any, consequence there may be for taking a photo of a bike left over a crosswalk. I completely agree with Vanessa it should be down to the council to address/rectify. An email to Lime from a local resident disgruntled by a bike left blocking their premises will carry no weight but if the great Katherine Dunne rang up the local rep and said deal with your sh*t one would think there'd be results. Again, the safety of our streets is Katherine's portfolio. The problems belong to her. Local councillors can also nudge her but she holds the reins. From a business perspective, I'd also think if any of these companies want to expand their reach they'd be on their best behavior. Looked at another way, a body of evidence is built by email complaints left unresolved as the evidence suggests.

David Lesniak ● 590d

As an LCC member, Katherine Dunne will be delighted that people are cycling. Her thought process probably ends there. Her responsibility to the rest of us doesn’t,  but hey Ho

Maggie Dodge ● 591d

I did e-mail councillors about Lime bikes scattered all over the place - having spotted 13 dumped on one solitary trip to and from Ridgeway Rd, in Isleworth. Katherine Dunne is the cabinet member with responsibility for this. I asked why Hounslow have no arrangement with the company responsible that L.B. Richmond has - to collect them if they're a hazard for pedestrians - which many are, being left smack bang in the middle of footpaths. I might have known - Hounslow have no such arrangement, there's a surprise. Next they'll be telling us they're a form of street art!

Vanessa Smith ● 591d

I like it when they're left across a pavement. That's extremely logical and not at all selfish.

Basil Finnis ● 591d

There are very few places where they can be parked considerately, isn’t that the problem?

Maggie Dodge ● 591d

Thanks Will, but having to contact many different operators directly seems clunky at best.  If Local Authorities and TfL want to encourage and promote these services they should also be prepared to make it as easy as possible for people to report when these bikes and e-scooters are left in inappopriate or dangerous places. They should be prepared to broker problems when necessary and have a local named contact in each of these organisations who is expected to receive and action them.It reminds me of a number of experiences with FixmyStreet.  This is generally a quick and efficient way to report broken paving slabs, faulty lights etc etc.  But when it turns out the problem is eg the responsibility of TfL rather than LBH, I have had emails explaining this and asking me to contact TfL direct. In the time it took for the LBH person to compose the email and send it to me they could have just passed the problem to a contact in TfL themselves. Crazy.I like David's suggestion better.  I will email councillors next time I see a Lime bike which has been parked inconsiderately or dangerously.

Marie Power ● 591d

David,  I saw someone photographing a hired bike as they left it, and wondered what that was about.  However, they left it in the middle of a path, so its not to prove it’s been parked up responsibly

Maggie Dodge ● 591d

Will's suggestion is utterly daft. Something I think he knows.They will not care one whit about what problem you are having unless it has to do with their uptake in use and revenue. After that, it is free advertising if their bikes are left here, there and everywhere.What you should do Marie, is email your local councillor but more importantly, email Katherine Dunne, LBH cabinet member for transport: Katherine.Dunne@hounslow.gov.uk. I've had luck when doing so especially if you mention the threat to pedestrian safety. Often these bikes are left at or in cross walks, in the path of those with vision impairment, blocking the footpath so those using wheel chairs or pushing prams have no alternative route, etc. Her remit is the duty of care for all road and pavement users so when you point out she is derelict in her duty and it is easy to demonstrate, the bikes often get moved.To answer Anne's question, the orange bikes are gone. They were MoBikes, one of the first iterations of bike hire but they were not e-bikes rather the old-fashioned kind powered by humans. If I had to guess, DOTT bikes bought them, repainted them, rebranded them and tossed in a battery as it is the same frame. Once a Dott bike is out of the trial area (Hammersmith for sure, Ealing possibly) it gets locked down so one can't re-hire it for a return trip nor can the next user hire it for a new trip. Hence they pile up. They are heavy and slow and cumbersome. Lime Bikes are lighter and I think fit for purpose. They are can be re-hired so, as Chris says, tend to  keep moving along so are less apt to litter the streets. I'm not sure what happens if you ride them in to a no-go zone like Chiswick House grounds. Like Dott, they are technically restricted to the trial areas, but I think you see them in Chiswick because there are so many of them available plus they are easier to use. When done with your ride, you are made to take and submit a photo of where you left it which I think acts as a bit of deterrent to leaving them blocking the footpath.

David Lesniak ● 591d

We use Lime Bikes a lot in this family and we love them! Our 18 year old often finds himself trying to get home from Putney or wherever at 2am and a Lime bike is perfect. Been using them a lot myself for longer journeys (5 miles or so each way) and where my normal bike would mean I would arrive all sweaty a Lime means I arrive relaxed. Cheap, easy transport that keeps you fit into the bargain!Have to say that whenever we bring one home with us and park it outside the house it's always gone in morning.

Chris Blackwell ● 591d

What happened to all of those orange bikes, the ones which first appeared on the streets? Other than their colour and being the first in such a scheme (in Hounslow at least), I don't know how else to identify them.

Anne England ● 591d

According to TfL they operate in Ealing & Hammersmith."To report an issue with an e-scooter, contact Dott, Lime and TIER directly:"LimeTelephone: 0800 808 5223Email: support@li.me

Will Watson ● 591d