Forum Topic

Michael Adams · 10/02/2021 06:07:00

new.ChiswickW4.com Communtity Forum Topic posting

Gunnersbury Park Car Park

While I know this topic has already been done to death two furtherpoints arise from the fact that the operators only incomewill derive from *fines*.If it's assumed *fines* will be in the plus £50 range then many visitors might wish to pay £6 for six hours parking so as"to be on the safe side" and to make for a stress free afternoon.After all the extra £2 will be less than they'll be paying for a cup of coffee.However there's *a maximum stay of 4 hours.". Which includes walking to and from the car park. Now quite how this will affect cricketers where presumably matches including changingand intervals last more than four hours isn't clear. Never mind ordinary families. Who if they turn up before lunch will have to leave around two or three. This is supposedly a facility which is hoping to attract people for a "day out" when they can relax and spend freely inthe overpriced catering facilities provided. Just providingthey keep an eye on the time and stay within running distanceof the car park. How many visitors who end up paying these £50+ fines which theoperators rely on for their income, are ever going to come again ?Most sites who operate these schemes are distress locationswhere people have no choice. Hospitals or retail parks.This simply isn't the way to encourage repeat business.Its almost as though the objective is to discourage peoplefrom visiting in the first place. michael adams*Apparently *fines* can only be imposed by statutory authoritiesnot parking companies; but this distinguishes them from standard "charges"

Michael Adams ● 1849d53 Comments

I don't see the need for a four-hour time limit. I can't imagine any commuters being willing to pay £10 a day to park at what is still a good trot from the tube station. Are they admitting that they haven't provided enough spaces?

Susan Kelly ● 1849d

Susan Kelly asked" Are they admitting that they haven't provided enough spaces? "At a guess, the four hour limit was insisted on by thecar park operators; as otherwise they wouldn't generateenough income in *fines*.They last thing *they'd* want, would be for visitorsto be allowed to pay say £8 for 8 hours parking, with all that income going to the park. As in that way *they'd* make no money from fines at all.You might have thought that this thought might have occurred to the CIC management when *negotiating" the contract but apparently not.Presumably the parking company would have been evenhappier with a two hour limit - but in *only* restrictingvisitors to the park to a four hours stay, the CICmanagement really do seem to think they've struck somesort of bargain. michael adams

Michael Adams ● 1849d

Excellent point about the cricket which hadn't occurred to me before. Teams will have to park on local streets assuming the games are at the weekend.I'd love to be able to say that the four hour maximum stay isn't driven by the desire to maximise fine revenue but I can't think of another reasonable explanation for having it.

Francis Rowe ● 1849d

FYI, the fines imposed will be £100, as per Gemini posting in the car park.

John Roberts ● 1849d

May I suggest when you find the pay machines are out of order you take a photo of the screen.I used a NCP in Lewes three weeks ago and have only just received a letter demanding £100/£60 for early payment.Fortunately I took photos and have submitted an appeal with them attached.I am suspicious that these companies know full well when the pay stations are of order but still send find notices.Nice people, not.

Adrian Irving ● 1849d

I don't think a lot of commuters would baulk at £10 per day to park, though the carpark doesn't seem unduly full during weekdays currently, so maybe it issn't an attractive parking spot for them. Good point about cricket parking. 4 hours not long enough and not solved by car sharing etc. I noticed they seem to be preparing the cricket square for next season now. Is there a club going to be associated with it, or is it just up for adhoc rental to clubs, schools etc?

Rob Reynolds ● 1848d

It's the private contractor who ONLY gets the fine money that is a potential problem. They will try using every trick in the book to ensure maximum fines are charged to as many people as possible.ie you park and pay to finish at 11am on a Saturday. You return to your car and leave the space at 11am. Due to other cars coming and going you pass the camera on Popes lane at 11.02. Is there a common sense leaway time to exit?....or is a £100 ticket issued?.

Nick Jenkins ● 1848d

AdrianI understand it to be only pay by app or phone call, no cash ticket.So again what happens if you park ,go to pay, dont have a phone, and so leave. Will the camera issue you a ticket for those "5 mins"?

Nick Jenkins ● 1848d

Rob Reynolds explained" I don't think a lot of commuters would baulk at £10 per day to park,"Indeed. But a *six/seven/eight hour* limit which would perfectly adequate for all legitimate users of the park, and would allow them to use the park without the threat of a £60/100 fine hanging over their heads would be of *no use whatsoever* to commuters.That's the point. This four hour limit was insisted on by the parking company *for the most cynical of reasons.*Either the CIC management are equally cynical or were too stupid to realise what they'd signed up to.And its not just cricketers. How can people have a family day out, and spend freely and make use of all the facilities if they've only got four hours maximun - including walking time to and from the car park ? I walk across the park regularly both during the week and weekends and have yet to seen any of the openfootball or cricket pitches in use. The only users ofany of the facilities I've ever seen are parties of schoolchildren.michael adams

Michael Adams ● 1848d

Nick Jenkins " It's the private contractor who ONLY gets the fine money that is a potential problem."Indeed. And any park user who feels aggrieved at being unjustly fined £60 or £100 is hardly likely to come back next week; or next month for that matter. To be fleeced all over again. What better way to remember your nice day out at Gunnersbury ? How about a nice letter through the post a few days later demanding £60; or £100 if you wantto argue.Talk about building up *goodwill* for your brand and drumming up *repeat business*.Whichever business school all these CIC clowns attendedmaybe they should ask for their money back.michael adams

Michael Adams ● 1848d

What colours the sky where you don't think people would baulk at paying £10 a day for parking?Are you ready to pay it or are you just trying to impress others of your conspicuous wealth?

John Davies ● 1848d

John Davies asked:" What colours the sky where you don't think people would baulk at paying £10 a day for parking?"If there's a six/seven/eight hour limit imposed, as against four, as I explained, how could *anyone* possibly pay for a days parking ?he then went on to ask" are you just trying to impress others of your conspicuous wealth?"All I can suggest Mr Davis, is that if you're trying to impress others in respect of your reasoning ability, and your basic English comprehension skills with that riposte, you appear to have failed miserably.michael adams

Michael Adams ● 1848d

I ferried an elderly person up to the park today and can tell you now this concession will be a goldmine for Gemini. The parking charges are not yet live but there are a relatively small number of signs and they are not particular big. The machines are also very small and will be obscured by a car parked in front of them.As far as I can see there is no way to extend your parking so if you can't linger in the park longer than your original intention.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 1847d

Nick, I don't know the answer to your question but all I would say is assume the worst.

Adrian Irving ● 1847d

The web site www.visitgunnersbury.org/news-blog/news/car-park-charges-at-gunnersbury/Makes no mention of a 4 hour limit.That apart unless street parking is free on weekends Cricketers will be very upset to have to pay for 7 hours for a game on a Saturday or Sunday.

Derek Hill ● 1847d

Derek Hill points out" The web site ...Makes no mention of a 4 hour limit."Indeed, But it makes no mention of fines or penalty charges either. Let alone sums such as £60 or £100.What it does say however, is - " Blue Badge holders will not be charged, or have a time limit on their stay"implying that a time limit of some kind would indeed be applied to non Blue Badge holders michael adams

Michael Adams ● 1847d

Derek Hill explained" The web site www.visitgunnersbury.org/news-blog/news/car-park-chargesat-gunnersbury/ Makes no mention of a 4 hour limit."Looking for any excuse for a walk in the rain I just visited the car park. There's one large sign on a round pole situated next to the pay point which is presently turned away from the car park.On it it explicitly states that there is a four hour limit and a "charge" of £100 for any infringementof these conditions.I took some photos but can't access the other new sitefor some reason.The fact that this sign isn't personalised to Gunnersburybut is a standard Gemini Sign suggests that these aretheir standard terms of business and aren't negotiable.Neither quite possibly is their minimum contract period.The fact that every £100 that goes into Gemini's coffersis potentially another customer lost to Gunnersburyforever, along with all the people they're going to tell all about it, may well turn this into a very expensive contract as far as Council Tax payersare concerned. Not that the CIC management will beoverly concerned I'd imagine. Just so long as theirown contracts of employment with the Councils arefully adhered tomichael adams

Michael Adams ● 1847d

My very last post on this topic.With the photo blown up X 500%, in the very small printat the bottom of the sign it does say the £100 charge is "discounted to £60 if paid within 14 days"michael adams

Michael Adams ● 1847d

Not quite

Michael Adams ● 1847d

So do we assume from this that GEMINI (Maximum stay 4 hours) over rule whatever the people who run the Park want to impose?

Derek Hill ● 1847d

Derek Hill asked" So do we assume from this that GEMINI (Maximum stay 4 hours) over rule whatever the people who run the Park want to impose?"If implemented, these arrangements will be the result of a legally binding contract, negotiated and agreed by both parties Gemini and the CIC. That's assuming a contract has actually been signed,and is not the reason for the delays.michael adams...

Michael Adams ● 1847d

I can't find any reference to the four hour limit any where else other than this site. They are usually pretty reliable. As someone has already pointed out the Gunnersbury Park statement implies there is a limit but they are reluctant to specify what it is - which is telling.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 1847d

Out off curiosity I visited the car park yesterday evening (while I visit the Park a lot I don't usually walk through the car park) and took some photos of the sign one of which I eventually managed to post on here. The sign is next to the pay terminal on your right in the first car parking area as you go in. But turned around This confirms the 4 hours.This is probably Gemini's standard contract when offering cost free solutions. While its o.k for retail parks I doubt its acceptable for hospital parking contracts, So there must be alternatives out there which the CIC could have chosen instead even if it slightly reduces their income. And that's assuming that this four hour limit will be Gemini's *only* source of £60/100 fines which is doubtful. I was going to post another photo of the car park but that's boring. The swans all returned to the pond a fortnight ago although some have now left. Maybe including this chap

Michael Adams ● 1846d

It's worth bearing in mind that car parks that use ANPR have been known to 'mistake' someone coming for, say, an hour in the morning and an hour in the evening, for someone who was there all day and to fine them accordingly.

Susan Kelly ● 1846d

A previous discussion concerning the car park concerned the likely conflicts which were likely to arise as a result of there only being a single lane exit/entrance to the car park. More especially with drivers desperate to leave so as to avoid a £60/100 fine. Possibly with the onset of Winter and the shorter days there may not be too many problems. But come next Spring and Summer.... Clearly, any reference to ordering in plenty of popcorn in anticipation, could rightly be regarded as being in very poor taste,. michael adams

Michael Adams ● 1846d

Couple of points.No sign of the ANPR camera yet, so I guess they can't start until that is put up....and there is building work occurring in that actual spot atm. That spot is "College Gate" according to the planning application, which is given where the entrance road opens up to the car park area....so not on Popes Lane junction, which in theory is better.The App to pay is NOT the PaybyPhone or RingGo apps which we commonly use, Its some app called "Y-Pay". The feedback from someone on this app is that it you can only set it up on a computer/laptop first via their website ....and then download the app and log in.... for it to work!!I have done this and it does work.....however the app gives you the choice of ANY numbers of hours up to 24 hrs! (not the max 4 hours at this location) so some people may get caught out unless this is changed on the app. The parking machines are covered up, so unsure if they take real money and cards or just cards.The signs are up...but I bet some people will not notice and get caught out when it suddenly goes live, unless an effort is made to warn people the first week or so. Kerching!!

Nick Jenkins ● 1845d

Has anyone raised this with the relevant local councillors, particularly regarding the four hour limit and its impact on cricketers ?

Richard Greenhough ● 1845d

Nick Jenkins suggested " The parking machines are covered up, so unsure if they take real money and cards or just cards." Maybe the ones in the main car park, around the corner. However as you enter. there's one on the right with the sign turned to face the park The sign in the second photo
This shows "cards only" except it may not be clear in the photo I've just realised that photos only appear full frame in the old original version of the site but may be cropped in the new version The second image below has already been posted and was posted by mistak

.

Michael Adams ● 1845d

Thanks for the picture Michael.I have had an email from the Gunnersbury Park information team, informing me vehicles on leaving, have a 10 min. grace period to pass by the camera once the ticket time has expired.

Nick Jenkins ● 1845d

It'll be interesting to see what happens after parkrun when lots of people are trying to get out of the narrow exit at the same time. I tend to avoid the park when it is on because I know it will be busy but I'd assume queues develop at the exit which might take more than ten minutes to clear.

Mark Evans ● 1844d

"Has anyone raised this with the relevant local councillors, particularly regarding the four hour limit and its impact on cricketers ?"I sent an email to Hounslow's Head of Culture , who have forwarded to the Head of Operations at Gunnersbury CIC, so we wait to hear.

Nick Jenkins ● 1844d

Is there a grace period for pick up / drop off in the car park?

Rob Reynolds ● 1844d

Rob Reynolds " Is there a grace period for pick up / drop off in the car park?"For sports etc as it is, there's already plenty of pick up and drop off outside the park in Pope's Lane, on both sides of the road. This is possibly because of the congested entrance. It's only saving a couple of hundred metres walk at best, to actually drive intothe car park. For drivers ferrying passengers with disability issues such passengers may well be holders of BlueBadges which " can be used in any car in which the badge holder is a passenger, " In which instance the car will be exempt from any charges.According to the Gunnersbury Park Management anyway. Who will have definitely confirmed all this beforehand with Gemini. Along with the ten minute grace period. And so nothing can go wrong, go wrong, go wrong...michael adams

Michael Adams ● 1844d

Ive never been to the Park when there has NOT been a parking space. So why the need for this 4hr max stay period? There will be even less cars now that we have to pay. Lets face it, this stinks.

stephen gould ● 1844d

Osterley Park arrangements are also really awful. I don't remember the detail but I was so disgusting I didn't stay.Some hoyty toyty woman in her Barbour and Hunters told me when I complained about the outrageous charges excluding the less well off that they could always join the National Trust and park for free!Unreal.

Adrian Irving ● 1844d

How does the ANPR camera know the car is carrying a passenger entitled to a blue badge?

Jeremy Parkinson ● 1843d

Jeremy Parkinson asked" How does the ANPR camera know the car is carrying a passenger entitled to a blue badge? "ISTR earlier on there, were suggestions that blue badge holders would have to "book in". Although this was achieved by using any of the "facilities" in the Park. However definedThere "may" be a scanner on the parking terminals for this purpose assuming there are separate passes issued - there is certainly a keypad. Although there is nothing actually written on the terminal or any ofthe signage to that effect.michael adams...

Michael Adams ● 1843d

Is there a grace period for pick up / drop off in the car park?CIC said "There is a 10 minute grace period between when your ticket expires and exiting the car park" ......and in following up to the above question, CIC Gunnersbury also say " there is a similar grace period for drop-offs or in case someone comes into the car park and then turns round and decides not to park"

Nick Jenkins ● 1843d

Nick Jenkins explained that CIC said" there is a similar grace period for drop-offs or in case someone comes into the car park and then turns round and decides not to park"Sounds like fun. Given the restricted entrance a cynic might even suggest that it's a case of the more the merrier as far as Gemini are concerned. Especially at busy times.michael adams...

Michael Adams ● 1843d

From the Gunnersbury website:"Car park charges will not be introduced before November"

Nick Jenkins ● 1843d

Hopefully it is moral rather than technical concerns which are causing the delay.

Francis Rowe ● 1841d

"Has anyone raised this with the relevant local councillors, particularly regarding the four hour limit and its impact on cricketers ?"The answer from CIC is they are aware of various issues and are working on them. No actual reply to the "cricketers problem"....but then again they have 6 months to work on that one!

Nick Jenkins ● 1841d

I am an octogenarian and do not use a mobile phone. How am I supposed to pay for parking I wonder ?

Beryl Bashford ● 1841d

Beryl Bashford asked" I am an octogenarian and do not use a mobile phone. How am I supposed to pay for parking I wonder ? "Although its not clear from the signage, it will be possible to pay by card by which I assume they mean credit cards and debit cards. There are keypads on the terminals and there may be slots or touch points.michael adams...

Michael Adams ● 1841d

It is probably too late now given the ink will be dry on the contract with the parking provider but they should have offered reasonably priced annual parking passes to regular users of the park. For regular dog walkers and members of the Sports Hub the extra expense will be significant even if you avoid a fine.

Paul Corcoran ● 1840d

It's not just Cricketers, how many people will be using the Football pitches over the next 6 months? There are 2 full size 3G pitches, 6 adult and 3 Junior grass pitches. That's an awful lot of cars!

Derek Hill ● 1840d

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/cars/article-7541041/Fined-car-park-doesnt-cash-appeal.html?ito=1490&ns_campaign=1490&ns_mchannel=rssInteresting article ....

John Roberts ● 1840d

Unfortunately when you read the article it only says that you 'might' be successful if you appeal but with a third of parking machines already possible this is probably a long shot.Not sure I have a huge problem with the machines being cash free - they would be vulnerable at night to people breaking into them if there was something in them worth stealing. While it was clearly wrong for TfL to try and stop taking cash fares because there are a lot of people on low incomes without a bank card, is it likely that there will be a significant number with a car that they will want to take to Gunnersbury Park?

Francis Rowe ● 1838d

This is an up date on my first post.I have just received an email from NCP apologising for any inconvenience and cancelling the fine.Without having taken photos of the Out of Order notice on the screen I am fairly sure the outcome would have been very different.

Adrian Irving ● 1838d

Hope Michael is correct about card payments at the machine as a lotof us only take old mobile phones out with us and some don't use a mobileat all. Not that I visit Gunnersbury but think all parking machines should have pay by card.

Janice Evans ● 1837d

Hi Janice, the machines do have a facility to pay by card, its cash they won't take.

Anita Blake ● 1837d

Thanks Anita, that makes it much easier for most of us.

Janice Evans ● 1837d