Forum Topic

Harrington rd, by CHISWICK Quay

Does anybody know where the restrictions start, I turned off the  A316 , passed the sports grounds, took first turning on rhs, Cavendish rd,  going to Bolt on Rd to collect my wife and I have just received four camera pictures es and a charge from Hounslow Borough for £130. I thought the restriction started at the mini roundabout ?

John Southey ● 1853d34 Comments

The camera is before the mini roundabout,  shortly after the first entrance to Chiswick Quay.

Cecile Parfitt ● 1853d

Interesting my husband has turned right at the mini roundabout and not received a fine! The sign on A316 says you can go 320 yards along Harrington road which takes you to the mini roundabout, has it changed again? It is all very confusing and pretty disgraceful that it doesn’t very clearly sign where it does actually start!

Jayne Thorburn ● 1853d

That is what I did turned right at mini roundabout having come the reverse way earlier. The sign saying so many yards is contrary to the sign Hounslow published that they were going to put up( on their website) I feel an argument coming !

John Southey ● 1853d

Sorry to read this John but maybe you can take some cold comfort to know that your cash is being used to bolster the finances of the pointless multi million pound walkway under Barnes Rail Bridge that must be running seriously over budget.On the other hand maybe you can't.

Adrian Irving ● 1853d

Councillor Steve Curran, Leader of Hounslow Council, said:“The bridge has been designed to maximise views across the river and provide easy access for wheelchair, mobility scooter and pushchair users.“By improving access, we believe it will make a big difference to the many people who visit this beautiful area.”So cars get nothing as usual. What a waste of money. All thanks to the cycling lobby zealots and their new allies, the free riding pushchair zealots.

Ed Saper ● 1853d

My friend turned right at the mini roundabout many months ago because she misread the large sign as a sign about road works.  She didn't get a fine.  I thought she would. They really need to make the rules clearer, until it is finally removed altogether.

Maggie Dodge ● 1853d

I have posted here a few times now about this as it is very confusing, and in my opinion, been done on purpose to catch people out and fine them.It would of course make sense to allow people back on to Cavendish Road from the mini roundabout, as they purport the purpose of this restriction is to stop people carrying on down Hartington Road.You can drive up Cavendish on to Hartington, but not back the same way. And you are right - it gives a distance before the restrictions begin, and one assumes that is as far as the roundabout, when in fact it is just before. Very sneaky and underhand. I contested it fiercely, but ended up having to pay.Unless you can provide photographic evidence of the trees and foliage on either side of the road obscuring or part obscuring the signage, it would probably be better to pay the fine at the reduced early rate.

Mark Edwards ● 1853d

I returned from Richmond & turned into Cavendish Rd, received a fine, appealed as it was not clear that Cavendish Rd was included in restriction or camera shot/320yards!!?!  Was refused, even with still temporary freestanding signs-paid up, Hounslow Council are worst for fines revenue.

Suzanne Taylor ● 1853d

Are the fines administered by SERCO ?

John Southey ● 1853d

It really isn’t fair and no council should behave like this with the residents that fund them and they are supposed to support!

Jayne Thorburn ● 1853d

"The sign on A316 says you can go 320 yards along Hartington road which takes you to the mini roundabout" How have you measured that? I think you'll find that 320 yards doesn't take you as far as Chiswick Quay. Anyway the restriction starts at this No Motor Vehicles (NMV) sign immediately before the Chiswick Quay entrance. There is one each side of the road.
I've just had a look at recent adjudicator decisions. Since 1 Aug 2021, the adjudicators have considered 67 appeals for the Hartington Road restriction, of which 57 were rejected and only 10 accepted. Most of the ones accepted hinged on the nature of the signs, including the fact that the NMV sign forces a driver to make a U-turn at a point that is not suitable for such a manoeuvre. But evidently most adjudicators have found the total signage including advance warnings to be adequate.

Richard Jennings ● 1853d

There's always one, isn't there? Someone claiming that what is clearly unclear and unfair is justifiable. Pro cyclist? Anti car? This particular restriction benefits no one and nothing, all it does is catch out innocent people going about their daily business, and as such should be scrapped immediately. Along with all the other LTNs and traffic restrictions being torn out and reversed all over London.

Mark Edwards ● 1853d

As suggested, you'd expect a NoMotorVehicle sign to be located so there's an alternative route by which you can easily avoid passing it. Here that would either be at the junction of Hartington with the A316, or you'd need two signs at the junction with Cavendish so you can do U turn round the mini roundabout.  The present signs seem to be in the worst possible place if you expect people to obey them.

Peter Evans ● 1853d

Richard Jennings, Who are the appeal board or adjudicators ?

John Southey ● 1852d

Some drivers can't see or understand road signs but they can measure 320 yards in their heads. It must be a mutation and only time will tell if it leads to a more evolved species.

Paul Campbell ● 1852d

"Who are the appeal board or adjudicators ?"They are London Tribunals, a group of independent lawyers based at a building near Chancery Lane who adjudicate on PCNs where a vehicle owner disputes the judgement of the London borough who issued the PCN.  Adjudication is an option you can use if you have submitted a 'representation' to the borough council (or TfL) and have had it rejected. You can submit a written appeal online or by post, and can opt for a personal hearing if you wish and discuss the matter directly with the adjudicator (being done by phone currently during the pandemic).  London Tribunals is funded by London Councils, which sometimes leads to suspicions that they are on the side of the councils, but in my experience they are truly independent in assessing whether a PCN has been legally and fairly imposed.  They will not get involved in political issues such as whether an LTN is a good idea, nor can they force a council to be lenient if a contravention of the law has actually occurred.  An appeal to the adjudicator is free, but if the decision goes against you, you have to pay the full undiscounted penalty.

Richard Jennings ● 1852d

Richard if the restrictions are the same why are some fines overturned and others not. Apologies if this has been covered

Maggie Dodge ● 1852d

"'ve just had a look at recent adjudicator decisions. Since 1 Aug 2021, the adjudicators have considered 67 appeals for the Hartington Road restriction, of which 57 were rejected and only 10 accepted. "I looked at the decisions since the first appeal registered on 25 Mar 2021 and there have been 147 appeals, 128 refused and 19 allowed (so 87% rejected).

Michael Robinson ● 1852d

There is quite a lot of good content in those appeal documents. Useful for anybody wanting to identify and avoid law-breaking dangerous drivers in Chiswick.

Paul Campbell ● 1852d

"if the restrictions are the same why are some fines overturned and others not." - Because the advance warning signs you see depend on where your journey starts, - Because some signs have been added since the restriction was introduced, - Because in some cases tree foliage obscured at least one of the signs, - Because the appellant may have questioned some of Hounslow's evidence leading to uncertainty about the dates of specific photos.But above all, because the adjudicator is independent and is not bound by decisions on earlier cases which might be subtly different.

Richard Jennings ● 1852d

The signs need to be more specific. I am a permit holder (SOTG CPZ) yet I am not allowed to drive up Hartington Road from the A316. The signs really ought to say "Except CS and RV permit holders" (or whatever zones are permitted).

Alan McBride ● 1852d

Thank you Richard

Maggie Dodge ● 1852d

If you drive down Bolton rd turn right into Cavendish rd and then turn left at the mini roundabout int Harrington rd. towards the A316. There do not appear to be any signs or cameras so it is possible to drive one way without any restriction, however, retracing the route in the opposite direction attracts fines. I find this somewhat confusing. Because of this I assumed the restriction came into force at the mini roundadabout.

John Southey ● 1851d

It's even worse Ed, us cyclists get nothing either as we will be required to dismount before crossing.We will still have to make our weary way along an almost traffic free road, under a "narrow" 15 foot wide tunnel adding intolerable four minutes to our journey.Still it's only money sloshed over from the school budget  and fines from unaware motorists that's  going to stomp up the six or seven million quid to pay for the walkway.

Adrian Irving ● 1851d

Has anyone challenged or asked for an explanation as to why the rules are different depending on direction in relation to Hartington Road. Does it make sense to anyone

Maggie Dodge ● 1851d

You can come out of Grove Park through Hartington Road, but not go beyond the chicane when you come in.  The camera is catching people before the mini roundabout travelling from East to West. Think Hotel California in reverse!

Cecile Parfitt ● 1851d

Maggie, it was all explained by Hounslow council last year.  See the first two paragraphs athttps://www.hounslow.gov.uk/info/20053/transport/2181/south_chiswick_liveable_neighbourhood/3

Richard Jennings ● 1851d

Thank you Richard.  This reminds me of the figures quoted for Staveley Road. Both roads I used to leave Chiswick for Kew Retail for instance. Various times of the day and various days of the week. Genuinely never felt either was particularly busy so I don’t know how the figures stack up. I do however doubt anything and everything that comes from Hounslow Council. They’re the Council with the LCC member who states she not biased in favour of cycling, or is that Ealing ? Bad as each other and I suffer under both because of my location.

Maggie Dodge ● 1851d

Grrr. Got another fine today for the same reason !,

John Southey ● 1851d

"Got another fine today for the same reason !"John, I've sent you a PM.

Richard Jennings ● 1851d

We're in London, lots of people cycle and if you do it is sensible to join an organisation which looks out for you and your needs eg insurance, best routes, cycling infrastructure and safety considerations.  Many cyclists are also motorists and vice versa - it doesn't have to be one or the other.  It is about sharing the roads and pavements safely and cycles take up a lot less space than cars - one car space = 10 cyces -see this solution:https://www.cyclehoop.com/product/racks/car-bike-port/

Philippa Bond ● 1851d

Sorry Phillips but I do not see the connection . Between your post and the thread ?

John Southey ● 1851d

Maggie and her irrational anti-LCC stance.

Philippa Bond ● 1851d

Hi Richard, cannot find a pm ?

John Southey ● 1850d