Forum Topic

The Rashford penalty

Excuse me asking, but in no way am I up with football. The Marcus Rashford penalty tactic: is it a recognised technique? In my naivety it would seem the traditional way (what I'd call 'giving the ball a good clogging') is a pretty reliable scoring technique.

Ken Munn ● 1932d17 Comments

Yes, basically get the keeper to commit first and then put the ball in the place where the keeper isn't...although preferably in the net rather than hitting the post or shooting wide !.To be fair to Rashford his penalty record is good, but to not even force the keeper to make a save is bad.  What annoys me is that before the penalties were taken, the commentators (on the Beeb) were going on about how the team had been practising penalties etc., and then our last 3 takers all hit poor penalties - not that hard, not in the corner and at an ideal height for a goalkeeper.

Adam Beamish ● 1932d

There are two basic ways to take a penalty. Decide beforehand were you are going to put it and hit it hard or watch the goalkeeper and try and judge which way he is going. The latter is much harder and Rashford got the first part right but tragically misjudged where he placed the ball. Having worked out which way Donnarumma was going there was no need to hit the ball so close to the post. Easy to say this as his heartbeat was probably off the scale making fine muscle control very difficult. The biggest skill required is putting your hand up when asked who is taking a penalty.

Mark Evans ● 1932d

Pretty sure the 'traditional way' saw us lose penalty shoot-outs in 1990, 1996, 1998, 2004, 2006 and 2012, so...

Ross MacDonald ● 1932d

Good in theory, poor in execution - he was watching the keeper rather than the ball and didn't hit it quite right. IMHO, sending players on with a couple of minutes to go specifically to take penalties is a bad idea (and I thought that when I saw them warming up, so not with hindsight). They don't have time to get used to being in the game, and the touch of the ball in the prevailing conditions, and practically their first involvement is taking the long walk to the penalty spot - nerve-wracking enough at the best of times, but even more so when you've only just come onto the field. I felt very sorry for all three lads, but especially the two sent on so late in the game. If Rashford, in particular, had come on at half-time in extra time and had fifteen minutes of on-field action, his touch with his penalty might have been better and made all the difference.

Richard Greenhough ● 1932d

Gosh Richard, if only the FA had appointed you England manager we would be European Champions now. Was it your modesty that prevented you from putting in an application?

Mark Evans ● 1932d

Nah, the fact that I support Wales ;-)

Richard Greenhough ● 1932d

Da iawn !

Stewart Jones ● 1932d

This whole thing would have been gone into in great detail with huge amount of research both into the individual England player capabilities and the ability of Donnarumma the Italian goalkeeper. Mark is right about the importance of heartbeat control and Southgate apparently had picked the penalty takers before the game which speaks of a high degree of planning. Those chosen had probably been tested to show how their heartbeat responded to stress.The England research appears to have identified a weakness low to Donnarumma's left but unfortunately it was only a relative weakness. He is one of the best goalkeepers in the world and a monster. Normally big goalkeepers are vulnerable to low shots and that was clearly the intention with Saka and Sancho's penalties. Unfortunately Donnarumma appears to have read their body language having been conned by Rashford and the penalties were not hit low enough to beat him. It is very easy to say they should have been hit lower but there is a trade off between hitting the ball parallel to the ground and power.People today telling us how some of the best footballers on the planet should have taken their penalties are delusional and are showing zero understanding of the game. The highest pressure sporting moment in my life was a college pool tournament with about forty people watching and I totally fell apart. I wasn't a terrible footballer but some years ago there was a stall at the Gunnersbury Mela in which there was a chance to take penalties against a long-retired and overweight Neville Southall. Despite me hitting three with what I thought was decent power and accuracy he seemed more to pick them up rather than actually save them. Most of the armchair critics wouldn't have been able to manage the walk from the centre circle to the penalty spot let alone kick a ball with exact precision and power at the end of it.

Francis Rowe ● 1932d

Francis, when I saw the two lads coming on right at the end of extra time, my thought was that that is a risky idea, but that Gareth Southgate and his analysts obviously knew better than an armchair supporter like myself.Unfortunately the result suggests otherwise.I gather Roy Keane felt that Jack Grealish should have been one of the first five penalty takers, and assumed that Grealish had not volunteered to do so. Grealish has since stated that he was ready and willing but wasn't selected.Gareth Southgate did a terrific job getting England to the final, but that doesn't make him immune to criticism, and he quite rightly said that he should take the blame for the shoot-out failure, not the players who missed.

Richard Greenhough ● 1932d

It is not a question of where the blame lies. A designated penalty taker for a professional team normally has a success rate of between 80 and 85% so even in less pressured circumstances they will be missed sometimes. Italy will have done similar homework to England and will have had their own strategy. The result is random other than England players are under more pressure than any other nation and the history of failure has a psychological impact. Southgate will have tried to mitigate this but it is an impossible task.Donnarumma probably guessed which way Sancho and Saka would shoot and can't have been 100% sure when he started his dive. The England players would have been coached not to give non-verbal clues as to which way they were shooting. Ultimately luck plays a huge part and criticising Gareth Southgate for losing a penalty shootout is like criticising an England cricket captain for losing the toss.

Francis Rowe ● 1932d

Penalties are a lottery and the poorest penalty can be successful and a very good penalty can be unsuccessful.  It's best to be a goalkeeper because you have nothing to lose.It stands to reason that if a ball isn't hit hard enough then the goalkeeper has longer to react.  As Francis also say, if a ball isn't hit high or low enough, i.e. at an ideal height for the keeper, then that reduces the likelihood of the penalty being successful.If a player, regardless of whether they are the best player on the planet or a child playing in the park, doesn't hit the ball hard, near to the corner and either low or high, then that greatly increases the likelihood of the goalkeeper saving it.Kane's penalty against Denmark was a poor penalty, his penalty last night was excellent.  Maguire's was unstoppable but on another night might have gone wide or over the bar.  Before Sancho missed last night he'd converted 10 out of 11 penalties, Rashford 15 out of 17, Saka 2 out of 3 (albeit all at 'junior' level.  On paper you can certainly see why Sancho and Rashford were selected to take theirs.We're all human, we all make mistakes or things don't go our way.  To me there's got to be something seriously wrong with people who abuse the players on social media or are 'distraught' at our loss.  Yes it has to stop, but it just continues and continues, and personally I don't think no matter what action is taken you will ever stop the significant minority of amoebas from doing what they do.  I don't believe it's anything to do with education or awareness, some people are lowlife scum no matter what.Yes it would have been nice if we'd won, but it's just a game, the people involved are not our nearest and dearest, and at the end of the day today would have been pretty much the same for all of us in terms of our jobs, responsibilities etc. regardless of the outcome.It is very difficult to be directly involved - some years back a personal friend of mine was a professional tennis player, including at one stage ranked in the world's top 35, and having attended her matches on several occasions I can say that it is absolutely awful to go through the emotions of watching someone you know playing professionally and then, if they lose, commiserating and trying to pick them up afterwards.

Adam Beamish ● 1932d

If you want to see how a "Rashford Penalty" should be taken, just look to Brentford's very own Ivan Toney.Last season he scored 11/11 (17/18 throughout his career).You can pick them out of this video:https://youtu.be/YtxYbGsLRAg?t=114(Also one penalty at the very start of that video)

Richard Cathcart ● 1932d

If I can remember correctly from when I was growing up,all this hop, skip and a jump nonsense used to be deemed ungentlemanly conduct and the penalty had to be retaken.I remember John Aldridge ex Liverpool used to quite often  feint when he was taking a penalty and it gathered momentum from then on.I think it's bad form myself, the goalie is not allowed to move forward and there seem to be no restrictions for the penalty taker.It should be easy enough for a decent player to score.When a player misses after doing his little dance he looks daft, as did Rashford imo.

Keith Iddon ● 1932d

I think it was also a bit strange that Southgate selected the penalty takers on the basis of what he had seen in training.Apparently Grealish volunteered but was not selected.I would go with those players who fancied it most.I thought the order would be something like Kane, Sterling,Rashford (the three most experienced forwards) Grealish,Maguire or Shaw, then the less experienced forwards like Sancho and Saka.

Keith Iddon ● 1932d

Although the goalie can’t go forward before the kick, they are allowed to move left and right on the line, which balances out the ‘hop, stick and jump’ antics of some penalty takers in my opinion.

Andrew Jones ● 1931d

I don't share that opinion.I free and unhindered shot at goal from 12 yards id advantage enough.To get back to the Saka penalty,as soon as I saw his face as he was walking to the spot I was pretty sure he would miss.He looked scared witless, understandable considering his age, that he hasn't played at anywhere near this level for Arsenal and for me his run up was too short to be able to get any real power behind the shot.He is a great prospect however, I hope he can put it behind him,regain his confidence and go on to have a brilliant career.

Keith Iddon ● 1931d

...for giving some context.

Ken Munn ● 1931d