Forum Topic

Where do Atheists meet in Chiswick?

With 5,000-10,000 religions in the world apparently...it does seem crazy that some groups would happily do harm to others who have alternative views.Now I appreciate that there needs to be a World Order/or codes of conduct for this billion year old Universe and some are happy to rule and inflict their authority.Even the Labour Leader has recently stated that he doesn't believe in God...and I've been watching too many Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens videos.I have been most influenced in my understanding by a recent interview with the Scottish Comedian Billy Connelly. With Parkinson's he has no fear of the future. "We know of nothing before we were born...and in my view...we'll know nothing of the afterlife"Where do like minded people meet?I've never been 82 before!

Jim Lawes ● 2012d69 Comments

"We know of nothing before we were born...and in my view...we'll know nothing of the afterlife". How profound.

Simon Temple ● 2012d

Does meeting other Atheists constitute the formation of a religion or a belief? Just saying

Jimmy Kim ● 2012d

It's a fine line.

Simon Temple ● 2012d

Interesting post Jim.Christopher Hitchens is great.I'm not sure ..I'd say the pub..usually foundopposite a church for the fallen out of grace :-)

Ben Gemmingen ● 2012d

There are humanist and atheist groups nationwide but all online at the moment for obvious reasons.This is the nearest group I can find-https://swlhumanists.org.uk/

Ben Gemmingen ● 2012d

Are they the same thing?

Simon Temple ● 2012d

Haha.They were but the atheist humanists fell out with the humanist atheists.They're bitter enemies now.

Ben Gemmingen ● 2012d

Good stuff. Long may it continue.

Simon Temple ● 2012d

I've witnessed old folk on the Outer Hebrides make their way to Church..having had a dreadful week with wild weather and now ducking from the rain..the old fashioned ladies with their face netting and masks and dangling stockings.The sermon is bellowed at them for well over an hour in Ian Paisley fashion telling them of their sinful ways etc.etc.Having donated their best coins..they then stagger home in the rain...only to be overtaken by the Minister in his new Volvo Estate car..and without being offered a lift.Maybe a charming chapel, a charming meet up with friends,a sing song..but what a message and being reminded of "your bad behavior report"I feel so relieved at casting off my guilt.

Jim Lawes ● 2012d

Thank you Jim.Very poignant and evocative.

Ben Gemmingen ● 2012d

Jim, the West London Humanists who meet in Ealing in non-pandemic times is the nearest I know of.  Further afield there is the Sunday Assembly.  They offer get-togethers for non-believers in the Conway Hall.  Google them.

Alastair Banton ● 2012d

My Great Uncle John was a dour Minister of the Kirk in the Highlands - long gone to his Maker.  His Merrie Widow, Great Aunt Millie, wife no. 2, previously married to another Minister, was great fun - she was a source of much merriment and exciting stories when she came down to stay,  including ones of nicking the Minister's secret stash of whiskey. Needless to say, she was disapproved of by all except my parents.  What a strict miserable lot they were.  Great Aunt Millie squandered all her money on travel, drink and exotic clothes and distributing happiness wherever she alighted!  We loved her dearly.

Jennifer selig ● 2012d

When I heard the Catholic Church owned land the size of France I remember thinking, wow, these guys are great businessmen, maybe I should sign up! :)

Adrian Irving ● 2012d

do believe in good and evil and prefer to stay with the good, althoughnever been to Church.

Janice Evans ● 2012d

Thank you for your responses and bless you all...not forgetting Jimmy and Alastair's leadsNow straight to sleep and don't worry about the future!I'm just going to listen to Richard Dawkin again..he sounds sensible.

Jim Lawes ● 2011d

Happy Birthday Jim!🎂

Fay Kazemi ● 2011d

Thank you Fay.  I've never been 82 before!

Jim Lawes ● 2011d

Athiest's meeting, Chiswick. Agenda.1. There is no God.2. AOB.

Simon Temple ● 2010d

Yeah - but what on earth is going on with reincarnation?  Some of the cases are very well evidenced and appear to defy rational explanation, certainly based on current scientific understandings. They don't prove the existence of a God, of course, but they do make me wonder about my understanding of things.

James Tickell ● 2010d

That makes a lot of sense.

Simon Temple ● 2010d

Simon:At any meeting... item 1 ought to be a welcome to members (if there are any)..Item 2) Welcome and initiation of new members.Hopefully everyone would be in agreement and would take the opportunity of praising each other for their enlightenment.We could also perhaps hire the Brentford Stadium or Wembley for a dissenters "open day and jamboree" event.

Jim Lawes ● 2010d

Can we dance to That's Livin' Alright by Joe Fagin? If so, I'm in.

Simon Temple ● 2010d

"what on earth is going on with reincarnation?  Some of the cases are very well evidenced and appear to defy rational explanation"10 years ago, Boris said he'd be reincarnated as an olive if he became PM.I'd be careful drinking that martini.

Ed Saper ● 2010d

A classic operator git.

Simon Temple ● 2010d

A what now?

Ed Saper ● 2010d

A political operator. Knows how it works to get ahead. With contacts etc. Same in business for those who aren't really the best-qualified but rise higher. Not rocket surgery.

Simon Temple ● 2010d

Have the Atheists been letting off fireworks in celebration?!

Ed Saper ● 2010d

Godless swines

Simon Temple ● 2010d

Don't they know it is Sunday — a sacred day when we all get to watch Line of Duty?

Ed Saper ● 2010d

Sod LOD! I was listening to Aled!

Simon Temple ● 2010d

Jim Lawes ● 2010d

Jim Lawes ● 2010d

Apologies for those two double blanks.Now have I got to study "reincarnation","hypnosis" and "regression" to make headway in these studies.I recall listening to a Hypnosis experiment once involving a ladywho had never been to France...(in this life) and yet she was able to describe in detail the intricacies of a medieval abbey ceiling. ..whilst the video camera shadowed her amazing utterings.I heard others too.But hey...I'm supposed to be denoucing such happenings!

Jim Lawes ● 2010d

Anastasia wasn't killed in 1917. No way.

Simon Temple ● 2010d

Its zest for religion has brought India to its knees. A little less activity in the Ganges might have saved them ?What a catastrophe !!!!!!!!!!!

Chris Vessey ● 2010d

"Its zest for religion has brought India to its knees. A little less activity in the Ganges might have saved them ?What a catastrophe !!!!!!!!!!!"For Daily Show / Jon Stewart fans....."Religion. It's given people hope in a world torn apart by religion."

Ed Saper ● 2010d

Terrible situation in India, hope they will get it under control with helpfrom others for supplies.

Janice Evans ● 2010d

‘Religion.  It’s given people hope in a world torn apart by religion’.Neat.

Alastair Banton ● 2010d

I'm just listening to some Rachmaninoff on Classic FM. It's heavenly!Jim: You mustn't say that!

Jim Lawes ● 2010d

Come on, Jim, freedom from religion means you can say what you like, or are you trying to invent some new blasphemy laws for unbelievers?!Things can be divine, heavenly, hellish, godforsaken, godgiven, blessed, damned, magical, etc without meaning you accept the literal meanings.I’ve even been known to say ‘someone up there must like me’.;-)

Alastair Banton ● 2010d

Jesus, I’ve even been known to say ‘inshallah’!

Alastair Banton ● 2010d

There is certainly some interesting text on this thread.The Times newspaper uses two interesting words today:"YOLO" (you only live once)."ABIOGENESIS" (Natural process by which life arises from non-living matter!"We live an learn.

Jim Lawes ● 2009d

"We know of nothing before we were born...and in my view...we'll know nothing of the afterlife"Trust Billy Connolly to get right to the heart of the matter. It reminded me of the account by Bede of the initial conversion of the Kingdom of Northumbria. When King Edwin "reached out" to his advisers on what to do about Christianity one memorably mused that the life of man was like a sparrow flying through a great hall. We know nothing about the life of the sparrow before it entered the hall nor after it left.He suggested that if the new religion threw a bit of light on what happened "before" and "after" it was worth a try. Hardly a ringing endorsement but wonderfully English.Of course as soon as Edwin died the Northumbrians changed their minds and reverted to polygamy and incest. However, on the return of Edwin's son Oswald from exile, at the head of highly trained war band (that included warrior monks) the tables turned again.

Cllr Sam Hearn ● 2008d

Whether YOLO or more than once, do we really have any control?  Can we choose to choose? Here’s an article that considers such questions.  It might interest you Jim, or anyone of a philosophic bent.https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/apr/27/the-clockwork-universe-is-free-will-an-illusion?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Alastair Banton ● 2008d

A truly thought inspiring article. Twice as long as it needs to be but still well worth reading. Thanks for the recommendation.

Cllr Sam Hearn ● 2006d

Heard this a long time ago: Q. what do atheists use for churches? A. libraries.

Paul Barnett ● 2004d

Glad you liked the article, Sam.  I find the issue enthralling.  It is quite easy to present an argument that everything is in some way pre-determined by natural laws and therefore every action we take is fated to happen and that free will is therefore nothing but an illusion.  And most counter-arguments are quite easy to demolish IMO.  But the one I like is this.  If someone argues that everything is pre-determined then they would have to agree that their own words and thoughts are pre-determined.  And therefore in a real sense they were compelled to speak as they did.  So they couldn’t help but say what they did.  Therefore their claims can’t be accorded any credibility.  Checkmate?  I don’t know.

Alastair Banton ● 2003d

IMHO I think we are far less in control of ourselves seeing as 'we' are merely empty vessels populated by billions of bacteria and fungi ,all competing for supremacy.Collective unconscious: How gut microbes shape human behavior' Genes within the human gut microbiota, termed the microbiome, significantly outnumber human genes in the body, and are capable of producing a myriad of neuroactive compounds'.https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022395615000655#:~:text=Gut%20microbes%20are%20part%20of%20the%20unconscious%20system%20regulating%20behavior,underlying%20neurochemistry%20is%20profoundly%20altered.

Ben Gemmingen ● 2003d

Alistair - I remember from my youth reading Isaac Asimov's Foundation trilogy that explores the issue of predestination on an enormous intergalactic canvas. The discipline of psycho-history that he invented for the trilogy fascinated me for rather too long. The ultimate stumbling block appears to be that any Society that becomes aware that its future is predestined will actively change its future but in ways that cannot be predicted.It would be interesting to discuss the implications of this for Chiswick's section of C9.

Cllr Sam Hearn ● 2003d

‘will actively change its future in ways that cannot be predicted’.  Cannot be predicted by whom?  And inability to predict the future has no bearing on whether that future is pre-determined.  A society that had come to accept that its future was predestined would also understand, surely, that there was nothing that could be done to alter it and that to believe otherwise would be deluded?This sort of thing was addressed quite entertainingly in a recent TV sci-fi drama ‘DEVS’.  Flawed, no doubt, but I enjoyed it.

Alastair Banton ● 2003d

I don't think society has a collective consciousness to understand (or not) anything.A door step survey or a multiple choice questionnaire might illuminate all...or maybe not.CS9 , the new Star Trek soap ,chronicling the interstellar travels and travails of the humanoids living at the far west of the Galaxy of Londinium .Edge of the seat viewing.

Ben Gemmingen ● 2003d

Oscar Wilde once said that when bankers dine together they discuss art but when artists dine together they discuss money.From my experiences of atheistic get-togethers I can confirm that atheists rarely discuss atheism.Sometimes in my imagination I wonder what an atheistic equivalent of an Alpha Course might be like.  Indeed, I am curious about what goes on in Alpha courses.  Anyone willing to share?  Apparently in the USA there are non-religious summer camps for college kids that provide an alternative to the proliferation of Christian ones.

Alastair Banton ● 1995d

Do atheists marry in Church ?

Janice Evans ● 1995d

Well I’m guessing that on the whole if two atheists were tying the knot then almost certainly not.  If one were a believer then it would be up to the couple to decide, just as in ‘two-faith’ partnerships.

Alastair Banton ● 1994d

Similarly, atheists affirm in court, rather than swearing on the bible, which means nothing to us.

Vivienne Cox ● 1994d

Thank you for your wisdom Alistair. I shall report back after I have visited Conway Hall and other meetings. I must say I do feel more comfortable in my head since taking on board Billy Connelly's belief.I gather that some 40% of UK citizens are non religious.Vivienne used the phrase "nothing to us". Is the lovely lady an A too?

Jim Lawes ● 1994d

And thank you, Jim.  I look forward to your reports.  The National Secular Society used to hold annual lunches which were enormous fun but these stopped a few years back.  I got to meet several interesting ‘names’ including Richard Dawkins.  I’m afraid he turned out to be a bit tetchy.  Ian McKellen, though, was charming.

Alastair Banton ● 1994d

Makes sense Alastair.

Janice Evans ● 1994d

And I believe that in the U.K. the church likes some sort of proof of Christian commitment from anyone who wants a church wedding so it would be a very strange for a pair of atheists to pretend to be believers.  Why would they?

Alastair Banton ● 1994d

Yes, Jim, all my life : family of good atheists.

Vivienne Cox ● 1994d

Although not a Church person, never have been I don't want to be open to the dark side, how do you avoid that.

Janice Evans ● 1994d

Did religion not invent the ‘dark side? Some religions also hijacked morality which I believe is innate and our consciences are under our own control.

Vivienne Cox ● 1994d

I'm  a non-believer but I don't mind church and sometimes I love it.It's the ritual and the theatre I enjoy – and obviously the music.On a small scale I like hymns and chants and that sort of stuff.  I'd love to have been around in the 1890's when the Great Synagogue in Aldgate was in full swing.Then there's the big stuff.  Bach,  Mozart etc etc.  The big choral masses.  Coronations, state funerals, Remembrance Sunday.  Nothing to beat them.If there was a God, this would have been how he sounded...

Stuart Kerr ● 1994d

Vivienne, personally I do believe there is a dark side which you can leave yourself open to if not already drawn towards it best to be aware.

Janice Evans ● 1994d

I agree that there is a ‘dark side’ but I see it as the negative and destructive sides of our (my) human nature.  Rather than avoiding this I think we do better to face it full on and deal with it otherwise we and those around us are likely to become its victim.  But the process of confronting our demons -another way of putting it - can be quite unpleasant.I would also say that one way some people avoid this sort of hard work is by inventing imaginary demons, devils etc and projecting these outside of themselves.  This can have nasty consequences.

Alastair Banton ● 1994d

Have done just that and have learn how to keep them away althoughsometimes the force is very strong and think we can be drawn either way.

Janice Evans ● 1994d

Must add you do need prayer and belief in order to do that, so obviouslyI believe in both.

Janice Evans ● 1994d

Well, whatever gets you though the night, it’s alright, as somebody once said, but personally I believe in neither God nor prayer so ‘obviously’ I don’t practise either.On the contrary, having had a religious upbringing, I have found that the process of shedding all that baggage (as I see it) has made me better equipped to deal with all the bad stuff.

Alastair Banton ● 1994d

I feel the same. I’m not sure what is meant by the ‘dark side’ . People can do terrible things in the name of religion and also some remarkably worthy things too.

Stewart Jones ● 1993d