Forum Topic

How thick can you get?

"Tears flow for Brits as they head home to avoid being deported as illegals in Spain"Another returning at Malaga airport today was Shaun Cromber who despite voting for Britain to leave the EU, didn’t believe it would end his Spanish lifestyle, he said: ” Yes I voted out, but I didn’t realise it would come to this, my application has been rejected and we are on our way home – the wife is in tears, she’s distraught if I’m honest and I’m not too happy at the prospect of returning back to the UK.“I’ve loved living on the Costa del Sol and after 5 years can’t believe it has come to this, we applied but got rejected and so have no choice, although long term I think the Spanish will regret chucking us out of Spain”The above quote from Global247News dated 26th March raises serious questions about the mental faculties of some of our fellow countrymen. Mr Cromber voted FOR Brexit and is shocked that things for ex-pats in Spain have changed. Another quoted in the article complained that he was coming home because he would no longer be able to work cash in hand and did not want to register to pay Spanish taxes. Their return will inevitably lower the average IQ in the country, something we could do without.

John Connelly ● 2038d60 Comments

I'm reminded of something frae North o'ra border.'Every time a Scot moves to England it increases the average IQ in both countries.'

Ken Munn ● 2038d

'Every time a Scot moves to England it increases the average IQ in both countries.'Mathematically impossible

Mark Evans ● 2038d

"Mathematically impossible"Not at all. If the Scot moving to England has a lower than average IQ for Scotland, but a higher than average IQ for England, then the average IQ in both countries would increase.

Gail Busza ● 2038d

The pure stupidity of these people never ceases to amaze, we have very old friends who have a house in Spain and also voted Leave, now they can't go back and forth as they used to as they've got a dog, so would have to get all the paperwork for the dog and drive where they used to fly. So they now want to sell up - all I can say is 'Good Luck' with that. I also heard some moron banging on about hoping to retire early slagging off the EU and how she voted leave, but was planning retiring to Greece! Thick hardly fits these individuals.

Vanessa Smith ● 2038d

I knew my husband (a Spanish national) would come in handy eventually. Now to get a bargain-basement apartment in the sun, without rough Brit neighbours that is.

Gordon McDonald ● 2038d

Mark, I'm worried about your IQ.

Ken Munn ● 2038d

What a clever lot you are.Yes they didn't think through the possible consequences but then haven't we all done that to our cost?Luckily I had no need to buy on the Continent has I have family in the most beautiful part of Tuscany but I do think the Spanish authorities could cut a bit of slack for these unfortunate people. The Spanish were happy enough to let them buy in the first place and allow massive developments of holiday homes catering for the British.I think they will regret their actions in the long run

Adrian Irving ● 2038d

What is Spanish for 'Bite off my nose to spite my face'?

Keith Iddon ● 2038d

It is probably unwise to question someone's IQ when you have misunderstood your own joke made in attempt to laugh at someone you consider to be your intellectual inferior.This very old joke should be told in the context of an individual the teller deems to be stupid departing for a country which is collectively thought to be more ignorant. It doesn't work as a comparison between two nations because it would require everybody who has ever left Scotland to travel to England to have been below average (Scottish) intelligence.You could perhaps argue that Mark is wrong to say this is mathematically impossible and he should have said 'practically' but that's just splitting hairs.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 2038d

Having unfortunately seen some of the TV programmes about 'Brits in the Sun' I should think the Spanish people will be only too glad to see the back of them! The downside being they'll come snivelling back here.

Vanessa Smith ● 2038d

Vanessa, the vast majority of Brits living in Spain or anywhere else abroad, are law abiding,peaceful and respectful citizens and the type who contribute to the local and national economy.Just like the vast majority of foreigners who live here.They are not the type of people that the makers of any low rent sensationalist TV programme would be remotely interested in.

Keith Iddon ● 2038d

I know, what a buffoon!British governments for years have been happy to have an educational underclass unable to think realistically.

Basil Finnis ● 2038d

AI > "I think they will regret their actions in the long run"Maybe not.The report says these people had their applications (for long term residence permits?) rejected. Could it be because they didn't meet the income or health insurance requirements and would have become a burden on the Spanish state?

John Whitworth ● 2038d

Yes John maybe not, who knows but treating some of your best customers in a shabby fashion nearly always comes back to bite you on the bum.My business philosophy is to treat all people the same, rich or poor.When economies improve even the well healed may well think twice before buying in Spain for fear the Spanish imposing something unwelcome.I don't pretend to know the full ins and outs but why couldn't the authorities just allow settled residents to stay then impose whatever measures they like with newcomers?That seems fair to me.

Adrian Irving ● 2038d

You really like putting the boot into those suffering, don't you ?

Richard Greenhough ● 2038d

Stuff your nose up at commoners Maybe they want the rock back in a deal

Julian Pavey ● 2038d

AI > "Yes John maybe not, who knows but treating some of your best customers in a shabby fashion nearly always comes back to bite you on the bum."The thing is, Spanish law has always required nationals of other countries (including EU countries) to register for residency if they intend to live there for more than three months. The people mentioned in the report must have failed to comply with this legal requirement. That is also rather shabby.

John Whitworth ● 2038d

Its not about them being thick or common. It is simply about them being an illegal immigrant, not meeting residency requirements and not paying tax locally. Same as all the calls to kick out immigrants from the UK who are not adhering to the immigration rules. This particular selfish, uninformed person decided that he is being wronged because he got caught not being a legal resident. Anyone who is even slightly in support of stronger immigration rules and measures in the UK should be applauding Spain's actions and not bleating.

Alan Clark ● 2038d

Adrian, we voted to leave and one of the consequences is that there is no longer freedom of movement, These are not new regulations that the Spanish are imposing but are a result of the electorate voting to leave the EU and to make ourselves à third country’ I have some sympathy with some of the people being deported as they were lied to by Johnson and Gove who stated that Brexit would have no consequences for people residing in other EU countries.

Stewart Jones ● 2038d

They’re chucking out tax dodgers. Ireland will be doing it next. Erm hold on...https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/tax-evasion-in-ireland-costs-other-countries-16bn-a-year-1.4414706

Russell Pearson ● 2038d

RP > "They’re chucking out tax dodgers. Ireland will be doing it next. Erm hold on..."I really can't see what this has to do with the subject under discussion.Incidentally, the report referred to in the article you linked places Ireland ninth in the league table of 'worst offenders' for global tax losses. The UK is second.

John Whitworth ● 2038d

I think RG after five years of being told at every opportunity "we won, you lost, get over it" and "we knew what we were voting for", whilst not especially edifying, an element of schadenfreude is perfectly understandable. Both for the unfortunate simpletons like this individual, who couldn't seem to comprehend that freedom of movement was a reciprocal arrangement, and for those in the fishing industry who are now discovering that increased fishing quotas are meaningless when access to the market that up until 31st December last year was seamless is now tied up in dirty great swatches of red tape. I seem to remember, you and others calling all this "project fear" well project fear is project here. Don't say you weren't warned.

Huw Burford-Taylor ● 2037d

Denying the real issues that Brexit would cause has been the core approach of the Brexit fan. Well, either denial or ignorant inability to think through the consequences. The fall in exports is dramatic with the shoddy free trade agreement. Imagine how much worse it would have been if there was no agreement - even more painful documentation and through in tariffs. Yet there are still some who want no deal exit.I see also the government forgot to make reciprocal driving license arrangements. So now thousands of Brits face the dilemma of an expired UK license and no way to exchange for a local country license. So unable to drive. Thanks Brexit geniuses.

Alan Clark ● 2037d

'I have some sympathy with some of the people being deported as they were lied to by Johnson and Gove who stated that Brexit would have no consequences for people residing in other EU countries.'You're a softie - the rest of us managed to work out that Johnson and Gove did nothing BUT lie, and aren't we being proved right?

Vanessa Smith ● 2037d

"..an element of schadenfreude is perfectly understandable."Oh well, in that case continue being rude and nasty about those suffering. Aren't Remoaners nice people ?

Richard Greenhough ● 2037d

Presumably expat Brits have the option of either applying for an international driving licence or taking a test in their country of residence. I recall that when I was in Canada in the 1970s, British visitors could drive using their UK licences, but landed immigrants - i.e. those applying to settle in Canada - could not do so until they had passed a Canadian driving test. So the rule in the EU is now similar to that. Anyone currently in driving limbo probably didn't do their homework.

Richard Greenhough ● 2037d

Re moaners wanted those living abroad to vote, I said they would choose to leave.

Janice Evans ● 2037d

Please try to get at least a little informed before you post. First, the international driving licence is an addition to your actual licence. You need the principle licence to be valid and not out of date. So for those people whose UK licences have run out of date then even if they had obtained an international licence then it would also not be valid.As regards taking a local test, whilst possible in theory it is impractical for many. First the test all have theory and practical elements to them and you need a high level of proficiency in the local language, i.e. not just the good enough conversational language skills that most will have (or for many Brits in Spain, no local language skills). Also, the wait time to get a test can be months - so what does someone do for 3-4 months, living in the countryside and unable to drive?Finally, you have not done your homework. While the UK 'guidance' was for people in the EU to exchange their licence the deadline was the end of this year. Plus many of the local processing offices (that countries version of DVLA) were overburdened with the demand last year. So they requested that people do not rush to put in the application, and wait until their UK licence was close to running out of date. That is, the UK government may have said "change your licence" but the local government said "not yet". No-one said anything about the UK forgetting to set up post-Brexit reciprocal arrangement for licence swap. So many were holding off until this year... only to find that the reciprocal arrangements were not in place and they were stuffed. This is a Brexit driven shambles, greatly enabled by the total incompetency of the Johnson government.

Alan Clark ● 2037d

You are wrong. First, provided you had not been abroad for over 15 years you could vote. Many did. And the vast majority of Brits abroad wanted to remain. And that is probably because it is easy to see the disadvantages of Brexit when you take a wider view of the world, not a narrow little England view. Or because it can be humbling to be the immigrant in a foreign land, makes you much more sympathetic to immigrants in the UK.

Alan Clark ● 2037d

Many voted leave, and nothing to do with immigration which you always lean toward.

Janice Evans ● 2037d

When have I ever claimed to be a nice person? Correct ≠ nice.

Huw Burford-Taylor ● 2037d

The majority of Brits who live abroad voted to remain. Which aspect of that do you not understand?And as for immigration, whatever your reasons for wanting Brexit a core facet of the leave vote was immigration. Why else did Farage put out that poster of a great line of refugees? He knew very well that many would respond to the supposed threat of more immigration and vote leave. It was a central part of the Brexit argument.

Alan Clark ● 2037d

JE: "Many [expatriates] voted leave..."Some, not "many" i.e. a minority"Britons living in other EU countries overwhelmingly back the UK remaining in the union, according to a new survey.It found 72 per cent of expats on the Continent eligible and planning to vote on June 23 intend to back In.Ninteeen per cent are Outers, with just under nine per cent still to make up their minds."https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/eu-referendum-three-quarters-of-british-expats-back-staying-in-eu-a3269901.htmlOf course the above was only a Poll (I don't know whether the actual vote is known), but its findings are backed up elsewhere eg:"Polls in the run up to referendum showed expat feelings ran at a reverse to those on the mainland.Although the polls may not have been scientific, the anecdotal evidence collected by the Financial Times, global expat network Angloinfo and similar groups reflected at least seven out of 10 expats would vote remain, against 20% for leaving and the rest sitting on the fence as don’t knows."Indeed that article indicates that if all Britons abroad had all been entitled to vote, then the result might have swung to Remain:"With around 5 million Brits scattered around the world, that expat vote could have weighed in with 3 million or more remain votes and just a million for leave."https://www.iexpats.com/what-if-british-expats-had-voted-in-the-brexit-referendum/(The final Leave majority was 1.27 million.)

Richard Cathcart ● 2037d

Alan, do you really think people take notice of that, many thought it was not working for the U.K and had no thoughts on immigration, as most of us are immigrants can you not see why.  have never blame the EU as how can they possibly understand our needs here that works for everyone, I blame the Government for joining.

Janice Evans ● 2037d

Richard, was told it was closer to 40% but don't have the figures, it's interesting that remainders thought they would all vote remain, therewill always be difference of opinion but why they voted out at their own expense is crazy.

Janice Evans ● 2037d

Please try to get at least a little informed before you post. Driving licences are not like passports. Most UK licences are valid to the age of 70, so for anyone under that age, their licences will not simply "run out of date". For anyone approaching or over that age, if they had done their homework they could have made arrangements sooner.

Richard Greenhough ● 2037d

No-one would ever mistake you for a nice person after reading a few of your posts, HuwB-T. Or indeed for a correct one. ;-)

Richard Greenhough ● 2037d

And, apart from being carbon based life forms then I guess that's about the only thing we do have in common.

Huw Burford-Taylor ● 2037d

"You're a softie - the rest of us managed to work out that Johnson and Gove did nothing BUT lie, and aren't we being proved right?" I think you will find the majority of people that voted didn't ""manage" as well as the rest of us, whoever "us" is and voted out.No softie in my view, just a bloke with a little more compassion  than you seem to have Vanessa.

Adrian Irving ● 2037d

The Schengen Area is an area comprising 26 European countries that have officially abolished all passport and all other types of border control at their mutual borders. The area mostly functions as a single jurisdiction for international travel purposes, with a common visa policy. THAT didn't last long!

James Roy ● 2037d

James, can't see what you're getting at. Schengen exists and functions except for  a few hiccoughs over Covid prevention measures (rather like Scotland, Wales, England and NI).

Ken Munn ● 2037d

And Schengen is comprised of sovereign states who can take control of their borders if they so desire. Who would have ever thought?

Huw Burford-Taylor ● 2037d

In the same way that there are no border posts within Great Britain, making the diktats from London, Cardiff and Edinburgh restricting free movement due to Covid hard to enforce, I recall crossing to and fro from France to Spain a few years back and noting that they had also removed their border posts - something I suspect may apply to many other borders within the Schengen area. If that is the case, reinstating the borders because of the pandemic may be easier said than done.

Richard Greenhough ● 2037d

Showing your age? The photo cards are only ever valid for 10 years. The old paper licences are long gone. At the end of 10 years the photo card licences run out and being out of date are no longer valid or legal. Understand ?

Alan Clark ● 2037d

So you agree ,Richard, that the UK, being non-Schengen had always had control of its borders even when we were in the EU?

Stewart Jones ● 2037d

I rather think m'learned friend is leading the witness!

Ken Munn ● 2037d

May I approach the bench, m’lud?

Stewart Jones ● 2037d

"The photo cards are only ever valid for 10 years. The old paper licences are long gone"No the old paper licences are not long gone.  They remain valid as long as you do not change your address.  Admittedly my paper licence is looking a bit decrepit but then again so am I

Justin Stephenson ● 2036d

It may be just me but there is something about the original story which does not ring true for a couple of reasons.1. Is you are going to be permanently resident in Spain you are obliged to register as such with the Spanish authorities2. Under the Withdrawal Agreement any Brit who can demonstrate that they were permanently resident in an EU member state prior to 31 December was entitled to stay (and same is true for EU citizens resident in UK).The rather idiotic Brit that is being deported clearly failed to do the first one (to avoid Spanish taxes - I wonder if he declared the income on his UK tax return) and could not prove the second?Even if he could have shown the second I have no issue with a serial tax evader (ie a criminal) being deported by Spain back to UK.

Justin Stephenson ● 2036d

Just AC displaying his ignorance.

Richard Greenhough ● 2036d

Yes any Brit in a EU country needs apply for residency and to do this you need to demonstrate that you are resident and fiscally resident (paying income tax, not just local tax on your property), and not going to be burden on the country you wish to live in. This last part normally comprises two elements - private health insurance (not travel insurance or EH101 card) or you are in the local country health care scheme; and you need to demonstrate sufficient funds or income to live with state support. The last bit (sufficient funds or income) is not required if you can demonstrate that you've been resident for more than 5 years.So fairly simple but does require that you adhere to the standards set. The big one is fiscal residency. Quite a number of Brits in places like France and Spain were living there under the radar - not having health cover, not paying tax locally (often not in the UK either) and dodging paying their fair contribution to the country they live in. That is illegal and means the person is illegally resident and rightly can be expelled from that country.

Alan Clark ● 2036d

'No softie in my view, just a bloke with a little more compassion  than you seem to have Vanessa.'Frankly I have no compassion for any of the muppets that dragged the rest of us out of the EU against our better judgement, the fact they're whingeing now only proves their stupidity in placing their faith in two proven lying rats.

Vanessa Smith ● 2036d

Were you a Labour supporter in the era under Michael Foot when it was party policy to leave the EEC (as it was then)?And did you vote Labour in the last two general elections when it was led by a man who had campaigned for most of his political life to leave ? If so, perhaps if you looked in a mirror you might see a muppet looking back at you.

Richard Greenhough ● 2036d

You said it Vanessa.Silly me,I forgot you're more outraged about what colours Hounslow paint their properties than "stupid" people being deported.

Adrian Irving ● 2036d

Yes, these people needed to have registered within three months of moving to Spain and were breaking the law even before we left the EU.  But they will blame the EU regardless. Freedom of movement happened within a legal framework and wasn’t a free for all as was sometimes portrayed.

Stewart Jones ● 2036d

Totally different subject - doesn't make a scrap of difference how you try to twist this to suit - same goes for Mr. Greenhough. If those people voted out of the EU - what did they expect?

Vanessa Smith ● 2036d

More than likely our press is blowing this up out of all proportion to how people actually feel.When have any of us not done something we should in order to gain some advantage(although ignoring these basic and reasonable rules is plain stupid),and then had to 'fess up and pay up? Deep down we know we were wrong but at the time of being sussed we all bleat about the injustice it a bit, when there is no injustice to bleat about.I have no sympathy, whether they voted leave or remain.

Keith Iddon ● 2036d

Gordon 😂😂😂😂😂😂 lol

Donna Fraser ● 2036d

It’s English exceptionalism, pure and simple

Alan Clark ● 2036d

I don't think so.

Keith Iddon ● 2036d