Forum Topic

Bus drivers views on C9

"In a hard-hitting interview a local Chiswick bus driver has confirmed that C9 is a disaster for Chiswick bus drivers, cyclists, pedestrians and other road users.  He describes being in a near miss with a cyclist and is fearful of what might happen if there is a major incident requiring all emergency services to travel through Chiswick.The bus driver, who has asked to remain anonymous, currently drives E3, 272 and H91 buses and has over 11 years experience driving buses in London.  He volunteered to be interviewed because he is so frustrated by the effects of C9.Speaking candidly, he describes a near miss incident when he stepped off the bus at a changeover point and nearly got run over by a cyclist who was going in a different direction.  This was "a big breach" in safety, he said. He anticipates a "big big big clash” if an ambulance, a fire vehicle and police need to get through Chiswick High Road to reach a significant emergency incident.On travel times he said bus journeys had been drastically affected particularly at changeover points, when buses are loading, and at bus stops, and that this was affecting local businesses.  “There are big long queues” which slow down others’ journeys on Chiswick High Road.  He added that it "is not acceptable” especially "when you think about the ripple effect of it”. “Let’s watch out when everything goes back to normal … it’s going to be mayhem on Chiswick High Road,” he added. “The people who are behind the idea, they need to go back to the drawing board and have a rethink and re plan – listen to the bus drivers, listen to the locals, listen to the passengers and then we can get a better Chiswick” he concluded. The bus driver was interviewed by local resident Mar****e F**w. She asked him for his view and his immediate response showed just how much C9 is of concern to him and his bus driver colleagues.  She then asked him if he would be willing to be interviewed, mindful of the risks involved in speaking out.  He agreed saying it was extremely important to tell people just how concerned bus drivers are. The interview is attached and is available to view/listen.  The driver’s words are spoken exactly as delivered by an actor, to preserve the bus driver’s anonymity."Source: https://www.facebook.com/groups/onechiswick/permalink/3108811546072567/

Loraine Pemberton ● 2069d75 Comments

Thank's Loraine.Why oh why didn't they just make the bus lanes 24-7?This would have cost nought and be a lot safer.When I suggested this one of the die hard cyclists jumped in saying there had been a number of accidents between buses and cyclists.That of course is true but is no justification for ripping up bus lanes. Nothing is 'safe' only safer which cycling in a bus lane certainly is compared to the main stream traffic.

Adrian Irving ● 2069d

It seems obvious to me that to reduce traffic there needs to be better public transport. Quicker, niftier buses with dedicated lanes, almost a continuous stream of them, would attract people.  Children in one family go to different schools, making cycling unviable if they are young and need an adult with them. Older children often have to carry heavy books, plus sports stuff and now and then a musical instrument, and might not always know what they need to carry home.

Vivienne Cox ● 2069d

Pre Covid, I did use buses for journeys that were beyond my walking capability but not long enough to warrant using my car. However, due to the increase in bus journey times, thanks to C9, if it's too far for me to walk, I now use my car.

Loraine Pemberton ● 2069d

This bus driver has not felt able to identify himself. Apparently the Ambulance Service and Fire Brigade have been forbidden from speaking out. Is this acceptable!?  The cycle lobby’s have taken over everything and we have important information being hidden and people gagged ! I find that frightening and frankly ridiculous too. It’s not as if isn’t obvious what a nightmare these schemes are .

Maggie Dodge ● 2069d

There was an earlier interview with a disabled resident on Onechiswick.com who said she had almost been knocked over, and I'm sure this is the tip of the iceberg. Once lockdown ends the real issues will be very clear. It is so sad that all this upset has been deliberately introduced under the guise of the pandemic.

Mandy Waters ● 2069d

The new scheme is a disaster yet we get the same bland statements from TFL. The story on the front page has two points. First, TFL claim that bus speeds are broadly the same as 2019. Let that sink in, during lockdown, with traffic volumes down, Heathrow empty, no local sporting or cultural events, and most shops and all bars/ restaurants closed, speeds are broadly the same. You don't need to be a traffic planner to foresee what happens when all of these things reopen. Buses are being sacrificed for the obsession with CS9Secondly, TFL claim that there were serious delays when there were roadworks in the area. Lets be serious, this is London, when are there not roadworks in the W4 area? Recently there were roadworks on Acton Lane, Sutton Court Road and Dukes Avenue at the same time. Only low traffic during lockdown prevented chaos. Acton Lane before the tube station has another hole dug on the pavement and another no smoking sign along from it, exactly the same spot that was dug up recently for gas works. So more roadworks and closures are imminent. TFL and Hounslow know this bridge has structural issues, but choose to ignore it. Its not just roadworks, accidents and incidents on A4, Hogarth, Chiswick roadabout are normally at least a weekly occurrence. Final point, which is the bit that should scare us all. TFL say they will use measures such as 'bus speeds and cycling usage' to asses the scheme. No measure of congestion on surrounding roads or the air quality and pollution this causes, in order to force through the segregated section of CS9.

Paul Green ● 2068d

Is C9 deliberately awful to cause chaos and to be used as tool against motorists? The fact that it is dangerous to cyclists and pedestrians? you’ve  got to break a few eggs to make an omelette!

Maggie Dodge ● 2068d

Annandale Rd, Duke Rd, Linden Gardens, Brackley Rd (metro bank on corner) among others, are so dangerous to exit or enter because of the two lane cycleway and at night even more dangerous because the amount of cyclists not having lights of high visibility clothing. Unbelievable how nobody has been seriously hurt.

c james ● 2068d

Exactly, what person in their right mind came up with this scheme and why are the cycle zealots so desperate to keep it? It makes no sense to me.

Maggie Dodge ● 2068d

I completely agree about those junctions being really dangerous and the number of cyclists not wearing high vis clothing or having lights on when daylight fades.I am both a cyclist and a driver.  I have a high vis jacket which I wear when cycling outside of summer time and when I used to cycle from work (I now work from home so not relevant) I would always take bike lights with me.  These are basic safety rules which all cyclists should adhere to, but sadly the majority do not

Justin Stephenson ● 2068d

Going by the occasional brief conversation and a few overheard asides from bus drivers recently it would be safe to assume this view is universal.They all feel really dumped upon from a great height and find this infuriating given the death toll they experienced during the pandemic. As soon as the virus abates their terms and conditions are being changed to give them what is effectively a big pay cut.Nobody is getting on a bus for a jolly at the moment and they are filled with stressed people a small proportion of whom will take their stress out on the driver. Making their lives more difficult in the way TfL and Hounslow Council have at the moment just seems perverse.

Francis Rowe ● 2068d

Please do consider contributing to the fund raising platform (and share it with friends and neighbours) for the Judicial Review in June as sadly this is the only way we are able to fight these ludicrous measures.  https://uk.gofundme.com/f/onechiswick-united-against-streetspace-changes?fbclid=IwAR10BX2p1zTub4x7VRdR4tScK8oYkM_58zu62jT--QLc795-Ug-EJfSIOvU

Jane O'Donnell ● 2068d

“ These are basic safety rules which all cyclists should adhere to, but sadly the majority do not”Yep, that’s because the majority of cyclists in Greater London are morons.

Steve Taylor ● 2068d

In December I spoke to a bus driver on Chiswick High Road who was waiting for new shift to start. He told me unbidden that he and his colleagues were fed up with not being able to run on time on their Chiswick routes.  He was depressed because his senior TfL managers had told him and his colleagues that the new cycle way had been implemented because Chiswick residents had asked for it and were extremely happy with it. He was astonished when I told him that over 5,000 residents had signed a petition against it in 2019.

Cllr Sam Hearn ● 2068d

Not true. But a nice try.

Cllr Sam Hearn ● 2068d

Rumour has it the chiswick Buses, in the summer will be carrying  Drop down oxygen masks, Got a good deal With  the airlines

James Dow ● 2068d

Your insults towards cyclists are boundless crap !I envisage a CHR where only buses and cyclists and maybe electric scooters (when legal) are allowed.

Chris Vessey ● 2067d

In that case, Chris, the High Road will just be a through route as all the shops will have closed.

Claire Moran ● 2067d

Wouldn't banning cars from an A road mean they are more likely to drive on B roads which in Chiswick would be mainly residential? I thought the whole point of LTNs was to do the reverse.How would shops get deliveries?How would disabled people get to the High Road?Ultimately getting people to switch away from cars in such a proportion that will make a real difference can only be achieved by better public transport. Cycling can help but only at the margin.  By undermining the local transport network by taking bus lanes away the exact opposite effect of what we all want to achieve. The main reason people would switch from a car to a bus is that the latter offers better journey times. Right now the bus has no advantage through Chiswick. People are avoiding buses if they can due to Covid but the problem will become more apparent when many continue to do so because of the poor reliability of the service. Disastrously for the local area this comes on top of a substantial reduction in the number of buses operating along the High Road. You need to heed what this bus driver is telling you.

Francis Rowe ● 2067d

Chris was merely tossing a sigh and a pinch of wit into the local mire. But it's hardly a surprise that he's immediately taken so seriously.  I mean, why shouldn't a local “moron” and even worse a “cyclist zealot” not be taken absolutely seriously?One question – when does repetitious feisty turn into a nag beneath the washing line?

Stuart Kerr ● 2066d

They have now increased parking charges to a ridiculous level, seems to be different in all local boroughs , but quite a hike I understand.  Obviously it’s about forcing us out of our cars, as well as another money gathering scheme.  At the same time also now increasing fares.  Undeniable gridlocked roads thanks to LTNs and cycle lanes.  Who’s to blame? TFL the LCC the Mayor . The Government who offered money but the uptake was not mandatory and not taken by all Councils, our local cycling celebrity and his buddies perhaps.  Who do we thank for making lockdown worse and for  causing possible further financialhardship to many?

Maggie Dodge ● 2066d

Rubbish, it will be virtually pedestrianised and thus invigorated. The absence of cars and motorbikes and all the toxic fumes there from, how fantastic ! Come on get real !

Chris Vessey ● 2066d

Francis you are entitled to your view, however all the points you present are all entirely surmountable. How do you think it works in other towns and cities for instance.Few issues there. The end result being no cars puthering fumes, a regular bus service on CHR and all the fatties shedding weight by walking more. As for those who cannot walk they have their electric chairs I assume. Roll on !

Chris Vessey ● 2066d

Clever, very clever. Some folks just will not accept change for the better will they ? Like it or not this is exactly what is happening, get used to it.

Chris Vessey ● 2066d

Pedestrianised  shopping areas do work well but only when cyclists, buses etc are barred  with access for deliveries etc during restricted hours.If it was a main road like CHR there also has to be a viable alternative route.

Adrian Irving ● 2066d

And you too are entitled to your view Maggie, although somewhat misguided. Suggest you leave your car at home and accept the changes. Good for your health , mental and physical !

Chris Vessey ● 2066d

Not sure, if as Stuart suggests, you are being ironic. The comment about 'fatties' suggests that you are attempting humour rather than making a serious point.On the off-chance you are not, which towns and cities have closed A roads and diverted traffic onto B roads?

Francis Rowe ● 2066d

Hounslow, Derby, Nottingham, Manchester and many others

Chris Vessey ● 2066d

Local planners have all that sorted, let them do their jobs is best.

Chris Vessey ● 2066d

In Response To:"Local planners have all that sorted, let them do their jobs is best."You are pulling my leg I hope.Seriously?

Adrian Irving ● 2066d

Which road in Hounslow?

Francis Rowe ● 2066d

Sadly yet again Chris forgets to join up his thinking.The places he mentions that are "pedestrianized" are pretty much made into open-air malls. What he neglects to mention is they all have parking infrastructure to deliver these pedestrians and/or public transport to do the same. Another example often cited is Kingston. You know, by the mall. With several multi-story carparks a stone's throw away.He also proves himself disingenuous about no cars on CHR. And we've been through this already as he knows. His response is to blather out something denigrating which usually looks like THIS!Many residential streets only have access from CHR. It will always be so. He forgets about business deliveries and has zero understanding of how that network functions. But by all means, let him tell you what he thinks so long as you don't disagree in which case you're a FOOL! He also has no understanding of how the market works. By reducing access to the retail and services on offer, the value of the properties will decrease. Access to and for the ABC1 demographic will be curtailed. That demographic simply goes elsewhere as "no" is not an acceptable choice. As it was pre-COVID, the density of the local community does not sustain rents and rates at their current level. Increased footfall is needed which means casting a wider net and inviting people in from outside the immediate community. What he's proposing isn't an urban center, he's proposing a lovely little country town market. Only at city rents. In a city. Where people live. And drive cars. As do the black cab drivers and Uber drivers and Zip car operators all of whom would be banned from accessing his utopian village and thus be unable to deliver customers. If customers can't come, they sure as shit won't be spending.

David Lesniak ● 2066d

I think Chris is thinking of the pedestrianisation of town centre high streets which generally would have happened with a planned redirection of traffic often via a bypass. As you say shutting an A road like Chiswick High Road and inevitably ending up with more traffic in residential areas would make no sense. Pedestrianised town centres, including Hounslow, always have more than adequate parking facilities.The first test for buses will be the return of schoolkids. Does anyone know how this works with capacity limits? Are they still running school only buses or does anyone who needs to get to work by bus have to take the chance that one comes along that isn't already full? If so, taking away their priority lanes is going to mean lots of people are going to find using them to be impractical.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 2066d

A315

Chris Vessey ● 2066d

Mr Lesniak you really are full of blather !Can you not see what the authorities have planned for your future CHR. Your motoring zealotry days are numbered !You may not like it, but change from snarled up CHR is coming. Be afraid, be very afraid !

Chris Vessey ● 2066d

"It was already tense (meeting) because, after a year of meetings, no one had produced any designs for anything, and it was meant to be a four-month project starting last May,” he said."The above is an extract from the proposed A4 cycle path in Hammersmith.Are these the type of town planners we are supposed to rely on to sort things out then Chris?

Adrian Irving ● 2066d

Good news in the front page article about H&F funding the cycleway along the A4.  Where it always should have been.  Now, get rid of CS9.

Claire Moran ● 2066d

Adrian, yes they probably are, pretty useless are they not.Which layer of Govt do they get their instructions from ?This is vital information. Particularly I do not like the new multi storey tower blocks in Brentford, Hounslow and more planned for Osterley and Acton/Chiswick borders. Clearly a massive population increase expected within this Borough, why ? Clearly there will be no lack of footfall for shops on CHR.

Chris Vessey ● 2066d

Move the shops to the  Great West road,  Give over the  high road as a playground for cyclists. Good planning

James Dow ● 2066d

I just don’t believe that many people go shopping by bike. To start with, you become unbalanced and I always used to worry about my bike being stolen if I left it too long. I don’t think we will have cyclist shoppers from these Brentford and Acton blocks, and the bus services from there are dire.

Vivienne Cox ● 2066d

James, the buses will still ply up and down CHR to bring inthe lovely shoppers; although your suggestion is the best one "shops on GWR".

Chris Vessey ● 2066d

You would be surprised maybe, cyclists DO shop on bicycle !I've been doing so for years and years and years and years.I have no complaints. Unlike folks on this forum.

Chris Vessey ● 2066d

Such a 'witty' person. Not.

Claire Moran ● 2066d

The wit of James Dow, do you get that Clair ?

Chris Vessey ● 2066d

Buy a New York D Lock, fit baskets on your bike and take a backpack - sorted! Much easier and faster than walking too.

Chris Blackwell ● 2066d

Chris, lots of people shop by bike regularly but I think it will be more often for a single item needed for a recipe or other short term need. For instance earlier this week my wife sent me out to get some lemons knowing that on my bike I would be there and back in 15 minutes. Unfortunately there isn't always the time to pop out like this and, when you have a family, it isn't practical to do anything other than take the car for the bulk of weekly shopping needs. If you make it impossible for people to drive to Chiswick they will go somewhere else probably taking a longer journey. Just because your life circumstances allow you to dispense with a car doesn't mean that everyone else will have the same opportunity and you should fall into the trap of assuming this makes you morally superior.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 2066d

What all the cyclists forget is that there is the other high road user, the pedestrian, I keep being endangered by cyclists on the pavement who shout 'get out of the fxxxing way'. They are the rudest and deserve no special facilities. They should use the existing cycle-way along the A4. Many cyclists think they have a God's Right to use space, any where.

Mike Preece ● 2066d

No blather, Chris. Just facts. I do so love the veiled threats though. Days are numbered. Be afraid. Blah, blah, blah.When you find the plot, let us know.

David Lesniak ● 2066d

Ah but Jeremy my life circumstances do not allow me to dispense with a car. We used the car today to collect our early morning shopping from an unmentioned supermarket.We go early to dodge the germs. So you see I am really a motoring zealot at heart.

Chris Vessey ● 2066d

It takes about 3 minutes to cut this  New York D Lock with a portable angle grinder.

Alex Shpinkov ● 2066d

Mike that applies to motorists and pedestrians too.When cycling I often see motorists parked up on cycle tracks, double red lines and all the streets are now lined with cars. But YOU complain bitterly if there is one cycle out of place. Shame on you sir !

Chris Vessey ● 2066d

He he he !

Chris Vessey ● 2066d

Tottery old bods for whom buses are difficult or even impossible to access were they even permitted to travel there, will have been consigned to the rubbish heap of "Stay indoors - you're past it, not wanted here!".  Good old TFL and Hounslow traffic planners who insist they know best.

Jennifer Selig ● 2066d

Tottery old bods for whom buses are difficult or even impossible to access were they even permitted to travel there, will have been consigned to the rubbish heap of "Stay indoors - you're past it, not wanted here!".  Good old TFL and Hounslow traffic planners who insist they know best.This comment is repeated from higher up this thread.

Jennifer Selig ● 2066d

Jennifer it comes to us all eventually so hope you stay fit and healthy, it all depends on your genes does it not ? As for "Stay at home" under current circumstances this by far the best advice to heed, but difficult to achieve !

Chris Vessey ● 2066d

Discretionary use of a car is already quite expensive and likely to get more so. The range of charges and fines is being expanded and increased. This will ultimately make driving for pleasure the preserve of the rich.While it will reduce the number of cars on the road there is clearly a diminishing return for it as a policy. Car journeys across London have stopped decreasing in recent years. This suggests that much of the remaining traffic on London's roads is non-discretionary - people who need to commute by car, people whose jobs require motorised transport, people with mobility issues, people moving something too heavy to carry.With public finances in the state they are I have no doubt further increases in the cost of motoring will be introduced. This can only work as a policy to reduce congestion and pollution if a viable public transport alternative is offered. Otherwise the increased charges serve as a regressive tax on people who need to use their cars or vans who will tend to be from middle to lower income groups. Policy at the moment seems to make driving prohibitively expensive for some but at the same time making potential alternatives like buses unviable.

Mark Evans ● 2065d

Quite agree and with Hounslow introducing a park anywhere parking permit for £1100 - £1500 - why would you bother taking public transport when using the car is much easier and convenient

J Morse ● 2065d

But a Park Anywhere Permit wont allow people to park on say TGT and DR or will it ?

Loraine Pemberton ● 2065d

Based on a random sample of one...

Ken Munn ● 2065d

Yes it will. A permit is available that allows the owner to park in any onstreet bay in the borough. The council appears reluctant to confirm whether this also exempts the owner from any time limit e.g. if the bay has a maximum weight time of two hours.

Mark Evans ● 2065d

Do you think the driver's testimony is unrepresentative or incorrect?

Francis Rowe ● 2065d

But theres only Disabled parking bays on those 2 roads and isn't illegal for anyone other than Blue Badge holders to park in those bays ?

Loraine Pemberton ● 2065d

The bus drivers testimony aligns with what I was told by another bus driver before Xmas. So a sample of two!

Cllr Sam Hearn ● 2065d

I don't think that the permit allows anyone to park in blue badge bays but they would be allowed to park in adjacent areas e.g. Elliot Road or Thornton Avenue.

Mark Evans ● 2065d

In the article the interviewed bus driver makes mention of other bus drivers sharing his views, so clearly more than 2 !

Loraine Pemberton ● 2065d

“ Based on a random sample of one...”And that sort of comment sums up the Lib Dems beautifully and clear evidence of why they will never again have any power and have absolutely no chance the the London Mayoral election. They have no sympathy for the  Working Classes as long as they want to speed along on their expensive cycles, jumping red lights and tailgating buses and trucks.

Steve Taylor ● 2065d

Steve I am so glad I don't take you seriously. You're so full of IT man, calm down life is too short, start to enjoy yourself if possible. None of this is serious or life threatening be assured! Have a good day.

Chris Vessey ● 2065d

Chris, what's that saying about 'it takes one to know one' ?You have a good day too 😉

Loraine Pemberton ● 2065d

Thank you Loraine, I most certainly will. And you too !

Chris Vessey ● 2065d

ChrisIt's occurred to me, but of course I maybe wrong, that you may from your prolific earlier comments, run with the Hares and hunt with the Hounds ? After all you've yet to accept my offer, why is that ?Apologies but I can't reply to your response until tomorrow morning Best, Loraine

Loraine Pemberton ● 2065d

Loraine Dearest, I am too old for conflict. However enjoy a quiet chatty life rather like you I imagine. All the best.

Chris Vessey ● 2065d

Hey Chris. You need to chill out buddy and accept the fact that cars are here to stay for the rest of your lifetime and petrol heads like me will enjoy the freedom and speed and excitement of adventure and risk.  Cyclists in London will always be the despised  scourge of society until they learn to behave responsibly and curtail their arrogance. These locusts need to take a lesson from cyclists in China and Japan and the majority of countries in Europe.

Steve Taylor ● 2065d

Mental issues Steve ? Refer to your GP for treatment ! URGENT !

Chris Vessey ● 2065d

Oh dear, you really are an obnoxious old man aren't you Chris?    You need to get in that car of yours and try to get it out of 2nd gear omn the M4 or M3 and let off some steam. Go on - challenge yourself. Live the dream instead of limiting your life experiences to the confines of CS9. It must be terrible being you at the moment.

Steve Taylor ● 2065d

I'm not using the bus much at the moment for reasons I don't need to explain but on the small number of occasions I have over the past few months I have had short conversations with drivers about the delays in which they are adamant that the road changes in Chiswick were to blame. I've also heard other drivers express displeasure at them when stuck in traffic. Obviously this isn't representative but a clear pattern is emerging.I don't know how drivers get paid but as far as I am aware if their bus is behind schedule they don't get overtime.

Francis Rowe ● 2065d