Forum Topic

Why is it always half measures?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56037420Rather than learning lessons from countries such as Australia that have accumulated considerable experience in operating quarantine systems, our system, which does not require travellers from many countries where the South African and Brazilian Covid variants are already present to quarantine, also fails to provide full protection to staff in hotels who will be responsible for dealing with their reluctant guests. Does our government really want to bring down infections as fast as possible or is this just another gesture like the failed track and trace project?

John Connelly ● 2084d21 Comments

This would be the same Australia that has just put Melbourne back into full lockdown ? Any idea how their vaccination programme is going ?

Richard Greenhough ● 2083d

That would be the same Australia whose death rate per 100,00 of population is currently 3.64.As opposed to the UK, whose equivalent figure is 174.09.https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

Richard Cathcart ● 2083d

Perhaps the Australian government aren't in thrall to so many donors and backers, I suspect this is the reason for the appalling shilly-shallying over the cladding scandal. He who pays the piper etc.?

Vanessa Smith ● 2083d

Richard, why not boast about the vaccine campaign to the friends and families of the 110,000 and rising dead, many of whom would still be with us if we had a competent government.

John Connelly ● 2083d

John, perhaps you could advise how you think the UK government could have done significantly better ? The figures for England are comparable for the parts of the UK where the devolved governments have taken on the responsibility for tackling the pandemic. Drakeford's Socialists and Sturgeon's Nationalists have done little better than Boris's Conservatives. Australia's geographic location makes it much easier for them to reduce those travelling in and out of the country, and yet they are still having outbreaks and lockdowns.

Richard Greenhough ● 2083d

Not sure one can compare us to Australia or NZ, populations size, much less population density, not an international hub, different challenges to the UK. Vaccination programme is best in class let’s celebrate that and be thankful, this will absolutely reduce death and hopefully start to rebalance the economy for millions of people struggling right now just to financially survive.

Jayne Thorburn ● 2083d

Richard, we have no land border except for that between Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic. Germany, with a similar ageing population to us and a number of dense conurbations like us has a mortality rate significantly less than half of ours despite having 9 or 10 land borders. Perhaps Boris should have asked Mrs Merkel for advice on how to make hard decisions at the right time rather than delaying, dithering and deferring. We know advice from scientific advisers was not acted upon immediately because of the PM's fears of upsetting the fruitcakes on the right of his party. Cheltenham should not have gone ahead as the initial lockdown came to late. The "world beating" test and trace system flopped. Quarantine measures on foreign travellers were not actively implemented. (What happened to the Covid Marshalls we were told we would have at the start of the first Lockdown?) Christmas relaxations killed many an elderly parent or grandparent as Boris again ignored advice in the hope it would boost his popularity. The latest quarantine measures are running weeks behind the advice to put them in place and are half-baked. And so on........

John Connelly ● 2083d

JC > "Rather than learning lessons from countries such as Australia..."It's quite infuriating because this government has shown itself willing to follow Australia's lead in other matters such as an Australian-style points-based immigration system and an Australian-style Brexit trade deal.Why not an Australian-style pandemic response?

John Whitworth ● 2083d

John, I note that you point the finger at Boris and ignore the efforts of Drakeford and Sturgeon. Could that be because they are more on your wing of the political spectrum ? We may not have a land border (except on the island of Ireland), but we have one of the busiest airports in the world and some very busy shipping ports. And I don't know where you spent Christmas, but mine was cancelled the Saturday before by the government, so which relaxations are you thinking of ?

Richard Greenhough ● 2083d

One thing no one mentions is us, the people and our own behaviour, if deaths resulted after Christmas the people only have themselves to consider. We all know if we mix with others we are taking a risk if people felt Christmas was so important to mix with others that’s their decision. Boris and all the experts said and continue to say stay home.

Jayne Thorburn ● 2083d

Let's not forget the appalling example of not-being-locked-down set by Dominic Cummings, and Johnson's very visible and lamentable failure to come down on him like a ton of bricks. What sort of lesson did the British public take from that?

Ken Munn ● 2083d

Richard, Boris repeatedly points out he is the Prime Minister of the UK, hence his decision to visit a Scottish vaccine facility despite knowing there was a major Covid outbreak there and many workers were either off work Covid positive or isolating. Devolved governments cannot act independently. For example, Scottish attempts to enforce full quarantine on incomers from outside the UK cannot proceed because UK Border Force has been advised by UK Government not to pass on details of incomers to English airports intending to travel on to Scotland. Wales limited movement in their pre-Christmas lockdown to people's local authority areas. The UK government refused to take action to prevent English people travelling over the Welsh border to visit Snowdonia and Welsh beaches etc. and potentially spread the virus. Boris repeatedly tells us his Covid mistakes demonstrate the strength of the union.Does your Tory Hack status prevent you from being objective?

John Connelly ● 2083d

"The UK government refused to take action to prevent English people travelling over the Welsh border to visit Snowdonia and Welsh beaches etc."John, what exactly would you have had Westminster do - set up police patrols on every road leading between Wales and England ? Even the socialist Cardiff government realised that that was impractical. People were clearly told not to travel, and as happily we do not live in a police state, it was the individuals ignoring that instruction who potentially spread the virus. Does your socialist hack status prevent you from being objective ?

Richard Greenhough ● 2083d

Have a look at this report and tell me it is all the government's fault - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-56039285

Richard Greenhough ● 2083d

As someone who has not been a member of a political party for 15 years I cannot comprehend why you keep bringing party politics into discussions on Covid. Governments of many hues have been successful at keeping the pandemic under control. Similarly, governments of many hues have struggled.I do blame the government if its "stay at home" message is being wildly ignored. This is not the first time. We have already seen packed beaches without social distancing shortly after the first lockdown and uncontrolled crowds at railway stations after the Christmas lockdown. I suspect lax enforcement (just as is planned for the hotel quarantines) has a lot to do with it.

John Connelly ● 2083d

It is a fact that you can make all the laws and regulations in the world, but if you do not have the people and stringent requirements in place to enforce them you are wasting your time. This 'quarantine' model proposed is just another half-arsed government plan.

Vanessa Smith ● 2083d

Well said John. They should be ashamed but obviously aren't! Disgusting how some people seem to have amnesia with awkward facts.

Basil Finnis ● 2083d

Yes, but we have a government who time and again have demonstrated that their own members can flout Covid restrictions with impunity thereby setting a shocking example.  It’s not too surprising if their attempts at regulation are widely ignored.  So it goes beyond matters of enforcement, important though these are.

Alastair Banton ● 2083d

Not sure if government broken rules filter down to make rules being flouted by the general public. Look outside now in W4 Face masks are 50/50, is that down to any government flout of the rules. I've seen kids and parents on the green all playing and standing around flouting all the rules. I take it they are part of households as key workers being at school. To put flouted rules on the government's own rules of engagement is just a thought rather than fact. If you did a poll of 100s of thousands of people id think the number who want out of lockdown now is most likely 50/50 like face masks. Except we seem to have the ususal polls of around 1.5k hugely in favour of lockdown. I don't buy it...People in large numbers are flouting the rules in many ways, and that is not down to government reactions

Julian Pavey ● 2083d

Julian - accept that some people are their own worst enemies but the failure to come down hard on the likes of Cummings, Jenrick and Mogg, also send a message that some are more equal than others, you lead by example. I doubt there's a person in the land who doesn't want out of these restrictions, we've all had a gut-full, but irksome as it all is - I'd rather stick it out and fall into line for a while longer than take the chance of another bloody lockdown just because I wanted to meet my mates down the pub or meeet up for lunch, so I'm afraid the government really haven't helped with this don't do as I do - do as we tell you example.

Vanessa Smith ● 2083d

Julian - all known in the trade as 'Doing a Dom'.

Ken Munn ● 2082d