Forum Topic

Diversions due to waterworks and Fines for using alternate routes.

Can anyone enlighten me. A friend delivered something to us in Grove Park today.  They came from north London. Due to the waterworks on Acton Lane and Sutton Court Road they struggled to find a way to reach us. In the end they came via Thames Rd. I am concerned they may get a fine. There was no alternative. Are the cameras preventing through access along Thames Rd now operational and are fines being issued?.  If so will our friend be able to appeal on grounds that other routes were closed?  Thanks

Alina Dansord ● 2090d19 Comments

I live in Hartington Rd - I and my neighbours have managed to register our car numberplates onto the Council's White List meaning we can enter and exit via the Roko Club A316 traffic lights - if not on this list you get a hefty fine.However, three close neighbours have received fine notices, one has had TWO!  When the phone is answered, all knowledge of their registration on the White List receives a blank  "we don't have your car registered", this is despite one lady able to provide proof there and then!!!  All 3 are prepared to go to prison rather than pay any fine!!!Meanwhile, explain how a Fauconberg Rd company delivering to me in Hartington Rd then carries on to deliver to Chiswick Quay, a minute from my home?  They have now received two fine notices and the driver is refusing to make any more deliveries to Hartington Road.  I rely on this company (pretty sure the C.Quay househlds would say the same, I don't know them - they don't always order on the same day as me).    Route please so I can advise.  These stupid LTNs far from helping are a nightmare and of no benefit to anyone!

Jennifer Selig ● 2090d

"If so will our friend be able to appeal on grounds that other routes were closed?"Yes, they could appeal on those grounds, and also that the exemption "except for access" could reasonably apply to an access to Grove Park at a time when other routes were closed.  I'll gladly help them if they get a PCN, but the last I heard the cameras hadn't been installed.

Richard Jennings ● 2090d

Jennifer, I'm sending you a PM about the PCNs that your neighbours have received.Regarding the deliveries from Fauconberg Road to your home and to Chiswick Quay, any PCN must have been triggered by the return journey.  Where exactly are the "No Motor Vehicles" sign and the camera in relation to the entrance to Chiswick Quay?

Richard Jennings ● 2090d

"Regarding the deliveries from Fauconberg Road to your home and to Chiswick Quay, any PCN must have been triggered by the return journey"And there we have it, proof positive, LTN schemes are bad for local businesses. Surely local SMEs should be able to access the communities they serve without threat of penalty. I don't blame the supplier for telling Jennifer they can no longer take on the risk. Nor should they have to spend more time/money to do so.One thing is clear from all this: independent businesses are disposable. Planners and LTN advocates simply don't care about them. And yet they demand we care about them.

David Lesniak ● 2090d

Thank you Richard. Very helpful.  Can anyone enlighten if lights Thames Rd operational. If not, when is this likely to happen?

Alina Dansord ● 2090d

This is from Lbh traffic in late January:The camera technology that will be utilised at Strand on the Green / Thames Road is currently being trialled at Green Dragon Lane, to the west of Kew Bridge, for a similar access restriction. The Green Dragon Lane location was the trial site for this camera technology in the borough. It is the first time the camera equipment has been used in the borough, with an entirely new back office system to enforce against an access only restriction and correctly issue penalty charge notices. The trialling of this new technology has taken longer than initially envisaged, with numerous technical issues occurring over the last few months. The positive news is that these have been resolved so far and the trial is currently working well.Prior to procuring cameras for further sites, the council required a high level of confidence in the technology and its ability to work effectively, to ensure no waste of public funds. Cameras for Strand on the Green / Thames Road have been ordered and we are awaiting a date for installation. A decision was made to install the signing for the scheme in December and then push for the cameras to be installed as soon into the trial period as possible.As of today there are no cameras installed and no PCN being issued.

Strand on the green association ● 2090d

re Hounslow Streetspace Programme - Hartington Road Trial, starting November 2020 - this is an extract from a LBH letter from Tom Sharland Tel 0208 583 3322 traffic@hounslow.gov.uk  dated 15 Oct 2020 to Resident Re this trial:-"... is the introduction of a northbound access restriction on H.Rd, to the south of the junction with Chiswick Quay.  This will be controlled  via an automatic number plate recognition (ANPR)camera, with 'resident only' access beyond this point.  Residents of streets listed on the next page (I won't type them out):- ... residential area covered by the CS and RV controlled parking zones are permitted access and can register their vehicles via a short eform found here www.tinyurl.com/hartingtonroad  Please register asap as the trial will start .. in Nov 2020.  Access for visuitors and deliveries will not be permitted ..... so these vehicles will need to find an alternative route."    It continues " southbound travel through the area will remain unchanged."Well there you have it!  After almost 2 hours of trying to complete their eform, (my details not recognised!!!) I had to revert to phoning and was finally on their "White List" of two tiny CPZones CS & RV, confirmed 21/10/2020 and given a ref no.    In Jan 2021 I had the same problem when trying to register a neighbour's car (they don't have a computer).For the Fauconberg company,(not in CS or RV CPZs) delivering to my home in Hartington Rd and proceeding to C.Quay  (all of a minute) is OK BUT they are not allowed to retrace their steps and continue their deliveries - they have to exit at Roko Club onto the A316!  VERY USER FRIENDLY - NOT!!!ARE THE ANPR CAMERAS WORKING, HOW & WHY ARE FINES BEING ISSUED AND TO HOW MANY PEOPLE - How many are actually paying???  Good money spinner for Hounslow Council!

Jennifer Selig ● 2090d

I find the explanation irritating that, while they wait for the cameras, no fines will be issued along Thmes Road. In that case they should also take down the signs to avoid law abiding drivers obeying them 'unnecessarily'.

Peter Evans ● 2090d

I wish I had known that Strand on the Green cameras are not operational.  Yesterday I needed to go to Brentford for my closest petrol station. I went via Sutton Court Road and the A4, Windmill Road and Brentford High Street to reach the Jet garage. On the return journey I planned to go down Sutton Court Road not realising it was closed as was Dukes Avenue. On getting to Chiswick High Road I was unable to turn right due to solid traffic so, drove to Chiswick roundabout, back on the A4 to the Hogarth roundabout before eventually making it to Sutton Court Road. Strand on the Green should be open to all W4 residents who  live south of the A4, I dread to think how much pollution I caused (in my small low emission car) by the huge distance I needed to drive.

Louise Mirwitch ● 2089d

Isn't the one on chiswick r/b closer?

Rob Reynolds ● 2089d

Or down to Hogarth Roundabout and back for one of those either side.

Vivienne Cox ● 2089d

Sorry, down to Hammersmith of course.

Vivienne Cox ● 2089d

The jet petrol station in Brentford is cheaper and less busy than the suggested alternatives. More importantly people keep their distance and don’t stand on your shoulder when waiting to pay. I recommend it. It used to be the easiest to access before recent road changes. I am not brave enough to use the one on the Chiswick roundabout as exiting and crossing lanes of traffic can be difficult.

Louise Mirwitch ● 2089d

At least I have an answer now. Although once cameras up and running I will still use SOTG myself as even if I to sit somewhere for a few minutes on the way to avoid a fine my journey will be quicker.  In winter I may even need to sit with engine running to keep warm. Either way more pollution ie either take longer detour or  sitting engine running along Thames Rd.

Alina Dansord ● 2088d

The trouble with that strategy is that the prescribed waiting time is a secret as closely guarded as the nuclear codes.

Bruce Hammal ● 2088d

"sit somewhere for a few minutes on the way to avoid a fine"You would still be in contravention of the "No Motor Vehicles except for access" signs."need to sit with engine running to keep warm"Oh, that's another contravention.  It's been illegal to do that in Hounslow and most other London boroughs for nearly 2 years.Your 'answer' might prove rather expensive.

Richard Jennings ● 2088d

I still don’t understand the rules around the Thames Road access soon to be implemented. The signs say no entry except for access. So if I need to travel from Sutton court rd to dentist presumably that is fine, or am I mistaken.?  Can I then carry on to Brentford exiting at Kew Bridge. There definitely needs to be some clarity on this. As Bruce said it all seems to be a closely guarded secret.

Sean Wales ● 2088d

This was the response I got from Hounslow when I enquired about a time limit in Thames Road. If you can make something of it, pleases explain it to me!"In response to the question you raised regarding the time limit for Thames road, At the current time the Council does not hold the information requested regarding the time limit. However, should at any time the Council hold such information then it is likely that we would treat that information as exempt under Section 31 (2) (c) of the Freedom of Information Act 2000 as the timing element is in place to facilitate and enable the enforcement of a restriction. Further, releasing the pre-determined timings relating to the linked-cameras for this scheme is likely to start to dilute the effectiveness of the measure over time as there is a chance this information would become general knowledge. This in turn would likely undermine the purpose of the scheme which is to prevent through traffic.Details can be found in the FOI guidance here: https://ico.org.uk/media/for-organisations/documents/1207/law-enforcement-foi-section-31.pdf .There is no intention to issue penalty charge notices for legitimate access journeys. The penalty in question is not the time limit, but the purpose of the journey i.e. is it for access (permitted) or non-access (not permitted) purposes. These type of access-only schemes are being trialled as part of Streetspace and we will be reviewing ways in which they can be made clearer and more effective. Residents feedback on this will be very important."A further enquiry under the Freedom of Information Act met with no greater success.

Jeffrey Cope ● 2088d

"So if I need to travel from Sutton court rd to dentist presumably that is fine, or am I mistaken.? "If your dentist is on Thames Road or can only be accessed via Thames Road/SotG, then that is an allowed access."Can I then carry on to Brentford exiting at Kew Bridge."Yes, after your visit to the dentist.

Richard Jennings ● 2088d