Forum Topic

Please stop constantly blaming those who ride bikes

Hi,Can I respectfully please ask that you all stop constantly bringing cyclists/ bike lanes into what feels like every single thread on this forum? I acknowledge that some people may be struggling given everything that's going on in the world right now and all the various problems with traffic around Chiswick isn't helping but please stop blaming all of this on everyone who just happens to ride a bike!The traffic problems are not caused by me riding my bike. If the council decides to reduce the road space available to motorists don't assume that I've asked for this just because I have two wheels.  There's been a significant increase in the amount of abuse I've been getting from drivers while on my bike in recent times varying from purposely overtaking me at close range, beeping horn/flashing lights at me, shouting abuse out their window as they pass, etc. When this is sporadic I can normally deal with it but it's happening more and more these days and getting more extreme.The most recent example was this morning on CHR westbound at the junction of Elliot Road around 9am. I was on the main road, not the bike lane, and was around a third of the way into the lane. I've used the bike lane a few times since it's opened but didn't use it this morning as I'm still a little confused on some of the traffic lights on it plus traffic on CHR was very light this hour of the morning. A H91 bus was right behind me and the driver started beeping his horn several times until I moved out of the way and let him pass. As I said, there was very little traffic on CHR at this time so he could have so easily just overtaken me if he felt that I was slowing him down that much. However given he stopped at every bus stop along CHR up to Chiswick Business Park and I had to keep overtaking him each time the few seconds he had initially gained by forcing me into the bike lane were completely pointless. The most extreme example was a few weeks back where I was approaching Chiswick Roundabout having come from Kew. It was very early in the morning and there was only one or two cars around. A driver came up behind me blaring his horn then cut in front of me, rolled down his window and proceeded to shout the usual vitriolic abuse at me: "I shouldn't be on the effin' road", "I don't pay road tax", "I should be on a cycle lane only", "He doesn't want to see me on the road again or else", etc. I'm a 6'1" man in my 30s and not easily frightened but this particular incident did shake me. Do I believe that particular driver was someone from this forum? No. Why am I posting this then? Because I believe the constant moaning on here about cyclists and cycle lanes including the incessant counting that some people seem to do: "I only saw one using it today", etc. effectively adds to the demonisation of those who choose to ride bikes.Thank you

Adam McKinnon ● 2126d226 Comments

Richard,  As per the Highway Code I'm legally entitled to use most roads while there's no obligation for me to use cycle lanes if I choose. If the traffic on CHR is relatively heavy and I'm fully able to keep up with the flow while using the main road what traffic problem am I causing? If there's very little traffic as there was this morning and the road ahead is clear up to the next junction/traffic lights/pedestrian crossing (of which there are many on CHR) then why couldn't the bus driver just overtake me if he felt I was slowing him down that much, just as he would have done had I been a car driver? And what was the overall benefit to him given that I passed him out shortly afterwards? The junction I was talking about when mentioning I was still a little confused was, I believe, the lights at Dukes Avenue or one of the other junctions very close by. A while back I went along the bike lane here, got to the junction where the lights were red for both the bike lane and the main road. The lights for the main road then turned green but the bike lane was still held (presumably to allow cars to turn left). The lights for the main lane turned red again while the bike lane was still red and then some time later both turned green. Perhaps there's a specific left turn light for the main lane here that I didn't notice initially but if there isn't then it seems odd to allow the main lane to go and also turn left at the same time as the bike lane. Also perhaps this was just faulty lights or they were still in the process of setting them up correctly.

Adam McKinnon ● 2126d

Adam,I wholeheartedly support your statement that being a cyclist has become a bit more dangerous as road rage incidents (from motorists) have increased.Sadly I think it is just a polarisation - discussion seems to have become less and less important, and 'rights' have increased in the psyche - such that the alteration of the allocation of a road surface - which we all pay for - has become the denial of a right.I think a similar approach has been taken by some road users to things like the 20mph zones - designed to protect other people, but seen as an infringement and inevitably increasing journey times.Cycles are allowed to use all parts of a road (whether or not there is a cycle lane) and have probably helped pay for all parts of the road (there is no such thing as 'car tax').But - we are in a period where 'knee jerk' is the modus operandi. Just look at the K&C bike lane removal - the 'space' which had been 'denied' to traffic, is in stead occupied by parked cars. But, that is the status quo, and so ok. The fact that it results in increased journey times is also ok.I think we more and more hear what we want to hear rather than weigh the facts (myself included) and we are becoming more like the states where is it each for him/herself.Sad, but I have to smile a the motorist who toots me, then overtakes at speed the wrong side of a pedestrian island - all so they can sit and wait longer at the traffic lights as I sail past on my bike ......I am using my bike more and more, so I am not the traffic. I love many of the interventions, but also know they will probably be removed in time, because I do not shout loud enough.I get better protective gear each year as I kind of know the inevitable is closer and closer to happening, but not having to drive everywhere has been such a release. (I do walk, cycle and drive).I wish it was not this way, but there has been a paradigm shift .....James

James Holmes-Siedle ● 2126d

Tony, can I congratulate for posting such a moronic and hateful post on New Years day, insulting the majority of the local population seems a strange thing to do. Lets avoid the fake news from a cycling organisation that claimed a vehicle was parked on a double yellow for 10 hours. It also did not actually say journey times increased, just that at certain times vehicles were parked at the side of the road. I assume mainly in line with parking regs, for example a single yellow at evenings or weekends.Also I and most others don't expect to drive wherever they please. However, more generally people to expect to be consulted and have a clear input into measures that have a profound impact on their local area. I don't see this as unreasonable.Also, to you and other posters, the vast majority are not anti cycling nor anti safer roads. For example to push through the segregated section of CS9, TFL have installed a bus gate to throttle traffic and knowingly then divert that onto residential roads. That is not making roads safer.Adam: If someone verbally threatens you I would encourage you to note their licence plate and report them to the police, this is an offence. Similarly, if you feel harassed by a bus, then report them to TFLUnfortunately, the cycle lane and the way it and other measures have been implemented has caused huge anger and frustation.Of course, cyclists do not have to use the cycle lane, but when its put their at great expense and to the inconvenience of other road users and local businesses, then people are going to get frustrated when they see the new cycle lane ignored.I drove westbound on 30th from Goldhawk Rd to Heahfield Terrace. As the journey was so slow, I had time to count the bikes. A total of 15, of which only 5 were on CS9. ( of the other 10 were heading eastbound, so it generally seems many ignore CS9 when heading east. THis will I fear provoke more frustrations, though I also sympathise with those who choose not to use it as its dangerous in several locations.My preferred transport in normal times is the bus, but buses are the big losers. THere are many elderly residents in W4 who have been completely ignored by this scheme.Its particularly sad that Adam opens this calling for less hostililty, only to the odious Tony Mansell post one of the most antagonistic posts we have seen

Paul Green ● 2126d

Adam, so long as we're making things mandatory for each other, how about we make it mandatory for all cyclists to pass a proficiency exam and obtain a license exactly the same as drivers? We are all vehicle operators using a shared road network and until such time as all are on a level playing field with regard to understanding how the road works then these types of incidents will continue.As for your personal harassment, I've no doubt it is unpleasant. Walk a mile in the shoes of many pedestrians who have been harassed by cyclists using the pavement which is, in fact illegal. Pedestrians are often told to f*ck off. What's your view on that?Many of us have been tarred and feathered over the years because of questions and criticisms on the CS9 scheme. We have often asked why there isn't a with-flow cycle lane on each side of the road based upon cycle design guidelines TfL itself says it adheres to (just not in this case). We have been called "anti" for that inquiry and "anti" for that observation. I can't help but notice we are the same ones who are now being blamed for this new scheme. With what we have now I find driving east and turning right onto Cranbrook Road a nightmare. Someone else offered the example trying this maneuver going behind an idling west-bound bus. Been there. Done that. It's awful as there is zero visibility for drivers or cyclists. I've also seen east bound cyclists using the road by the bus garage attempting to undertake a bus at the signal by the garage entrance. Luckily that bus was headed west and not turning left. But the new islands scattered about and the narrowed lanes have compressed west-bound vehicles (especially buses) into a very tight pinch point. So with a wide cycle lane just opposite it's hard to fathom why any cyclist wouldn't be using it to avoid this circumstance. Using your logic, if you didn't want the cycle lane you shouldn't be the object of harassment. That could easily be extended to anyone who didn't want this iteration of CS9 for whatever reason. But the rhetoric has remained steadfastly polarized.Now I invite you to sit back, relax and just watch the vitriol come in my direction. If we're lucky, Ken Munn will weigh in with his signature TLTR.

David Lesniak ● 2125d

David, More than happy for people on bikes to have to pass proficiency tests. As for licenses, again happy with the concept but haven't seen anything as to how it would be implemented in a reasonable way. I believe this only currently exists today in a city in China. It was tried in Switzerland but it was rolled back. I could be completely wrong here and happy to be corrected if I am. There is a warning to be made here about "being careful what you wish for" as if using a bike is made too difficult then some may swap to using a car instead which, in the end, just adds more traffic to already heavily congested roads. As for pedestrians being harassed by those on bikes I don't condone this at all. Some may cycle on the pavements just to get through as fast as possible and don't give a sh*t about anyone else - in my mind there's no excuse for this and it should be stopped. Not sure the best way to tackle it but perhaps having more cops and their willingness to issue fines may help. I imagine quite a few are on pavements just out of habit and again perhaps fines or warnings would sort this out and get them back on the road. Others, and perhaps this is a small amount, are likely on pavements because being on the roads with traffic can be a little terrifying sometimes. Though initially your logic seems quite sound I do disagree with your second last paragraph "Using your logic, if you didn't want the cycle lane you shouldn't be the object of harassment". Why? For the simple reason that the harassment I'm getting is face-to-face, dangerous and can be quite intimidating when it's tons of moving metal against me on a bike. Or are you saying that those who have opposed CS9 are being physically harassed too, and not just on this forum? Finally I've read quite a lot of your posts on here on various topics, not just this, and while you are fully entitled to your views and opinions it does feel like you can be openly quite hostile to those who disagree with you. This is of course true of lots of other people on here, and probably myself also, but for you specifically I feel this shouldn't be as much the case given you run a local business and I would imagine have no wish to alienate customers, potential or existing. But perhaps this is just me and my view of the world.

Adam McKinnon ● 2125d

The point I was making is that if you started driving in the war years when driving tests were suspended and didn't take place, you could keep on driving until you were 70 without any further testing.  You should of course be responsible and making sure that you have regular eye tests and keeping DVLA updated as to medication and change of address.  Is everybody responsible?  Are younger generations less responsible?  Roads and vehicles have changed a lot in that time."There are more drivers in their 80s and 90s in Great Britain than teenagers, statistics from the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) reveal. The latest driving licence numbers from August 2019 show that there were 336 drivers aged 100 or older, including three drivers in their 108th year.14 Nov 2019"We also have masses of cars on the road which are not taxed or insured.https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/government-estimates-634000-untaxed-vehicles-uk-roadsHow has the country been allowed to fall into this state?There are 20mph signs on loads of roads.  Why are so many drivers of vehicles ignoring these signs?  Roads were becoming rabid before this happened - not helped by all the online shopping and the way in which many courier drivers are employed - they not just your purchases are being tracked - and our ridiculous expectations of instant everything no matter what problems that brings...  Me-me-me culture.Of course everybody should have eye tests before going on the road.  I also think that cyclists should have bells and speedometers and should obey the Highway Code.Hopefully the Dutch Reach will be incorporated into the Highway Code so that drivers will not open doors without looking into cyclists riding past.  Wider cars and this danger is a reason for cyclists not liking and not wanting to use the old cycle lanes. 

Philippa Bond ● 2125d

Adam -If using a bike becomes "too difficult" I find it hard to believe those who choose to cycle for environmental reasons would swap to a car. There is always mass transit to tick that box. I always find that line of defense curious not to mention disingenuous. For me, it also perpetuates an "its all about me and my bike" mindset everything else be damned. Though I must say, Adam, I'm still torn as to your stance. On one hand there's a bit of "poor me, I'm being harassed" and on the other despite in-depth knowledge an ignorance as to why that might be. It should be said the harassing is idiotic, meaningless and pointless no matter how you slice it. And yet it continues.Indeed pedestrians are being harassed face-to-face. I'm not sure what you thought. Did you think those challenging cyclists got polite emails? A box of chocolates with a little note? It can also be intimidating when you have someone barrelling on a bike toward you as you avail yourself of the right of way in a zebra crossing. Moving bikes can do plenty of damage to pedestrians as you are well aware. Side note - is using the bike lane to run your two dogs on a lead a good thing or a bad thing? Will that endanger the dogs? Other cyclists on the bike lane? Other road users in general? Is that what cycle campaigners yearned for? I digress.I'm disappointed you went with the trope about my hostility. You knit it together with the veiled threat of alienating customers. Another favorite of mine. After all these years I know that our best customers value discourse and difference of opinion and aren't prone to being sycophants advancing an agenda blindly. Those of us in hospitality and retail are in the service industry, yes. But we are not servants as many demand we be. I keep looking for the memo that a local resident and business owner must stay silent on issues of interest or those with direct impact to their trade and that of others. Still haven't received it. And I still can't see how when I share facts in a factual way it gets the response that I'm being "scathing" to use but one example. Or if when I ask a question about anything to do with urban infrastructure be it for transport or business (and residents) that earns me the "anti" label. Since when, exactly, did curiosity become a bad thing? Discourse isn't the problem. Strategic polarization and lack of transparency is.But know this, we have been here for 12 years and counting no matter what I say or how I might say it. Narrow-minded folk aren't those we serve or suffer. Sure we may have lost a few along the way (shout out to Ed Seaton) but we've also gained untold many as a result of my engagement.

David Lesniak ● 2124d

David,Your first post on this thread felt as if it were written with an already quite biased view as to what my responses may be. Indeed I perceived it as if you were challenging me by your various questions in the hope that I would fully disagree with you on everything and you'd be somehow victorious in outing me as the fanatic I believe you see me as. Maybe I'm just being overly sensitive. Though of course it's only my opinion and others may take a different perspective I felt that the bulk of my last response to you was reasonably open and balanced - I agreed with some of the points you raised and challenged others."I find it hard to believe those who choose to cycle for environmental reasons would swap to a car." - I'm sure this is true for those who ride a bike specifically for that reason but this isn't the only or main reason people use bikes.I don't really understand your sentence "On one hand there's a bit of "poor me, I'm being harassed" and on the other despite in-depth knowledge an ignorance as to why that might be." I don't believe I ever mentioned that I didn't know why I get harassed but please correct me if this isn't the case. I know full well why it happens. "Indeed pedestrians are being harassed face-to-face. I'm not sure what you thought. Did you think those challenging cyclists got polite emails? A box of chocolates with a little note?" Perhaps I've misread something here and apologies if I have but I don't believe I said that pedestrians who challenge people on bikes don't get harassed too. Or are you mentioning this in reference to: "Or are you saying that those who have opposed CS9 are being physically harassed too, and not just on this forum?". If so of course I don't condone this either but how does someone out on the street necessarily know that someone just walking on the pavement opposes CS9?As to your last three paragraphs there is nothing wrong, in my view at least, with being curious, asking questions and challenging the status quo. The point I was trying to make, albeit not that well it seems, is that you can be quite hostile, confrontational and overly aggressive to those who don't fall in line with your thinking. Perfect example is "shout out to Ed Seaton" - I've no idea who this person is, what their relationship or history to you is but it reads like an unnecessary addition and feels more like it was added for points-scoring.

Adam McKinnon ● 2124d

Adam McKinnonI road a bike through out my school years when the traffic was a lot lighter than today.But the use of a car, once I was able to drive, became necessary as carrying three tools box’s, materials and pipe vice around was a bit hard.I even tried a trade bike for a short while until I went over the handle bars as the front was over loaded.The old bike came out of retirement in the mid nineties and used most days  around Grove Park until it went back into retirement approx 2012. In that time I didn’t experience a lot of the problems that cyclist of today complain about, yes I did have one or two scrapes, but following my fathers advice of riding defensively and treating. every road user as an idiot must of paid off.But I came across the really nasty side of cyclist a couple of years back.Now I always thought that a short polite toot on a car horn was to let another road user that you were there and to warn them that we may end up on a collision path. Oh no, it turns some cyclist into rage, so when the row of traffic stops at the traffic lights, I find someone trying to open my drivers door, which is locked. Then he tried them passengers door while shouting obscenities at my wife at the same time, which was also locked.The gentleman then started kicking the hell out of the side of my car, only to reappear again at my window, now I might have done the wrong thing, but I turned my dash cam around to record the abuse, but this guy then went into overdrive, started kicking my side of the car, and for his last act, managed to kick my door mirror off.The dash cam footage was shown to the police just for reference as there is no way you can identify a cyclist, so nothing ever came of it.How do I treat cyclists now, I don’t use my car horn or warn them in any way. If they are not looking where there going that’s down to them, but I would do my best to avoid them, also hope my front and rear cameras have picked up enough footage as evidence of any incident. I am thinking about adding a hand held camera to record the face and any abuse that is directed into my direction, while still keeping the car doors locked at all times, in case of a weapon being produced by any third party.

Bernard Allen ● 2124d

Adam -Let me start by saying I find your posts a breath of fresh air especially on this topic so a big thank you is in order.Discourse means challenge as it should. I have no desire for you to agree/disagree with me in part or in full although the very nature of the beast means we (the proverbial we) will never see eye to eye. Any collaborative effort will not end in victory for any of those involved but it should end with the majority feeling as if it has been heard and be able to point and see evidence of same. Sadly this last bit has gone missing repeatedly during the course of the last 3-4 years with regard to the CS9 debate now debacle. I quite like fanatics except for when they close their minds off and attempt to smear, or worse, others who disagree or have a mere niggle. Again, we've seen this all too often. You seem to have been following this forum debate so surely you have seen plenty of examples. The one I gave is recent to me with explaining something only with factual comparison yet being labelled as "scathing." The sky is blue. Scathing. The only point in saying that is to try and discredit. For no reason except, perhaps, to big yourself up or brush aside your own shortcoming. The more appropriate response would be "I didn't realize that was the case" or some such thing. And when someone can't answer a question only to dodge it repeatedly, you have to ask why that might be. I offer all of this as perspective to the dynamic of the entire debate as well as my own. This particular method of engagement via forum has its limitations so, no doubt, some of  your points/tone have gone missing as have mine or those of others.Supporting CS9 or questioning its design, intent and  efficacy are almost moot. My sense is you felt being harassed wasn't merited because you didn't support the scheme and/or find it worth using. Even if you visibly identified yourself as to your position it wouldn't matter. Take that further, to me, harassing simply isn't helpful. Period. Wearing "pro" and "anti" armbands would be irrelevant when confronting bad practice. What is relevant is abiding by the law and simple common decency. Both are woefully in short supply. So its an enigma to many why, after all the sturm und drang, with road space minimized to maximize space for a cycle lane cyclists don't use it. Surely that gives credence to some of the so-called "anti" arguments. I don't take issue with your choice. I take issue with the lack of coordination between advocacy, implementation and regulation. If the cycle lane is about safety why, then, are certain safety measures not made mandatory? There is a disconnect. Add cyclists not using the cycle lane because they don't feel it safe and you go from disconnect to debacle. If safe cycle guidelines are being ignored and cyclists don't use it any and all tax payers should be irate. Especially now.Perhaps look at it this way: if people were to walk in the cycle lane instead of on the pavement, what would you think? How would you react if you were pedaling along only to encounter someone strolling? The perfectly good pavement is right there! Right next to where you're walking!For context, businesses have been targeted for their concerns not only with the cycle lane but now with LTN schemes. Note I said concerns. Even they are somehow invalid. Some, like Ed Seaton, have stopped patronizing places because others, like me, have been vocal. Not anti as they like to paint me, but just vocal. Others have advocated boycotting local businesses over those businesses having concerns about the recent removal of parking and road closures. Boycotting local independents during pandemic lockdowns. Does that seem right all because of a disagreement? Do you stop being friends with someone simply because you disagree with them? Do you harass them? Or do you hear them out and find a mutually agreeable way forward?  There seems to be a whole lot of "listen to me but I'll be damned if I'll listen to you" going on these days. And I suppose that is intentional in a campaign sort of way. Wear them down and hopefully they'll shut up.As for me, I won't shut up. And I know that bothers many. So be it.

David Lesniak ● 2124d

Let's just face it all this chitter and chatter is irrelevent.  The simple fact is HOUNSLOW COUNCIL IN CONJUNCTION WITH TfL HAS COMPLETELY BUGGERED UP ALL PERSONS WISHING TO PASS ALONG AND THROUGH CHISWICK HIGH ROAD.  It has been a mistake!  The entire roadway must be dismantled and returned to its original state.  Keep bus lanes - admit cyclist cannot be accommodated in a segregated cycle lane - there simple is no space between the existing shops/businesses and homes, someone suggested they share the bus lanes.  Without exception NONE of my many cycling friends will use the newly configured Hi Rd - it is far too dangerous.  All of them prefer cycling in mixed traffic, but then they obey the Highway Code and ensure their children know and understand how to as well.  Their kids are banned until really proficient cyclists, no learning wobbling about for them!  Only the 3 cycling Hounslow Lead Cllrs Hanif KHan, Guy Lambert and Katherine Dunne persist in saying how safe it is!!!    Speeding commuter cyclists will have to divert to using the cycle lane along the A4.  ALL users of Chiswick Hi Rd must be FORCED to obey the highway code, STOP AT RED LIGHTS - drive carefully, allow sufficient space for cyclists, beware of random kids, dogs, infirm or elderly pedestrians.  Make sure 'NO CYCLING on pavements' is enforced.  Not sure what to do about little and large kids on scooters!  Users of electric scooters - roadway or pavement?  Can't be allowed on both.How to get this reversal done mighty pronto is the actual question.

Jennifer Selig ● 2124d

Justin, I don't believe I could be classed as a zealot though after reading this post I'm sure some will put me firmly in that box. But I guess that's not for me to judge. However there is something to be said about reducing car journeys overall. As a simplistic level traffic jams are caused by motor vehicles, not bikes or pedestrians. Take LA for instance - miles and miles and miles of huge roads several lanes wide in both directions that are constantly jammed. Closer to home look at the M25 - no bikes are on it (or at least shouldn't be!) and yet it is colloquially known as Britain's biggest car park. As a society we can't just continue to use cars as we have in the past - something needs to change and usage needs to reduce. Building more roads or increasing capacity on existing ones in the end just creates more traffic.David,I appreciate your thanks.Your question about how I would feel if pedestrians were to walk in a cycle lane is a fair, valid and well thought point. It already happens in places today and can be quite frustrating. Surely, I hear you ask, this makes me understand the point that everyone has been trying to make to me? I can certainly appreciate the similarities but there are some differences. As I've mentioned before I'm either able to keep up with the flow of traffic if it's somewhat heavy or traffic is so light, I'm not hogging the full lane and can be easily overtaken (just for reference I seem to cycle mostly when it's the latter). Both instances should mean I'm not causing traffic to build up behind me and in both cases I'm not behaving erratically so drivers can know what to expect and can hopefully react accordingly. Perhaps it's my own blinkered view but I can't fully see what the problem is with this and no-one here so far as been able to answer that question either. But I'm not so high-minded to believe I'm infallible so more than happy to take feedback onboard. Well, apart from the obvious one: the lane exists, its mere presence is pi$$ing everyone off and so I should just bl00dy well use the damn thing! I'm afraid I refuse to back down on this one until someone comes up with a good enough reason plus, as I've said before, me and every other bike rider using the lane won't resolve the crux of the issue. Back to the earlier point about pedestrians using a bike lane. Pedestrians will generally be a lot slower than a bike and can wander around all over the place, quite often glued to their phones or listening to music, without any concept of what's going on around them. This makes them very difficult to navigate around due to their unpredictability. I know someone will pipe up that some cyclists can be exactly the same and this is true but, apart from being slow (the very reason bikes aren't allowed on motorways), they're not supposed to be and by doing so are putting themselves and others in significant danger. If you were to suggest that runners should use a cycle lane, were able to keep up with the average speed moving around them or were easily overtaken and behave as cyclists *should* on the road (i.e. don't hog the lane unless you don't wish to be overtaken, signal appropriately, don't act erratically, etc.) then I don't really see this as being a major problem.  As I'm feeling quite mischievous today and plan on this being my last post on the subject let me put the cat amongst the pigeons so-to-speak and see what the reactions are to two other alternatives to the current cycle path (which, as I veer quite off-topic, was never what my intention was with this thread at all): (i) close CHR to private vehicles altogether and only allow buses, bikes and pedestrians down it's length (I can already see my image being burned in effigy at the mere hint of such a suggestion with calls for capital punishment to be swiftly returned to the statute books)(ii) return the bus lane(s?) as it was and instead segregate the existing footpaths to accommodate bikes - the popular view is that most bikes seem to be on the footpath already so why not make it official.I'm also curious to see how people react to the other thread I started earlier about the stolen bikes: how will some Chiswickians resolve their somewhat entrenched views on bikes with that of the under siege NHS and its magnificent staff? Just to clarify in case people read some flippancy into this: neither of these two threads I've started are in any way fictitious or just for sport. And with that I take my leave. I was curious to see what people's reaction would be to my initial post on this thread from Friday and, by and large it was as I had feared: most focus on the bike lane and little else of what I originally wrote. Perhaps, with hindsight, I shouldn't have mentioned the incident with the bus on CHR at all to see if that would have altered the course of the debate but I have a suspicion it wouldn't have made a significant difference. I realise that quite a few people may just read these threads without posting anything and so hopefully I've at least been able to get one or two people to think twice about the whole subject from a different perspective. Finally, just a thought for your business David though you may rather hell freeze over first than consider it... I've heard proper cyclists (and by that I mean those who are members of cycling clubs, go out cycling in groups when restrictions allow, the type that most people envisage when they think "cyclist") generally like stopping somewhere on their bike rides for cake and coffee. Perhaps you could entice some to your establishment and become a bastion of bike-tolerance within the environs of an otherwise belligerent Chiswick. Who knows? They may even converse with the locals, both sides could start to see that neither are complete monsters and so start to heal the divide.

Adam McKinnon ● 2124d

Adam -It does seem as though you fancy yourself exempt because you are a supremely skilled cyclist. Perhaps even flawless in general. What comes across is an air of exceptionalism and entitlement not one of doing your part. It has this taste of I'll do what I damn well please because I'm really super good at it so please stop harassing poor little old me because I don't give a shit about the rest of you. But that's my opinion.Your recommendation for closing CHR to vehicles suggests you are not from the area. If you are then you'd know it is daft. There are many residents and businesses with one single means of access/egress and that is CHR. With no vehicles on CHR please explain how that would work for these homes and these businesses if they can't get home or receive deliveries. You can't. Job done.Your point about pedestrians using the cycle lane doesn't hold much water. It pretty much alleges pedestrians are not nearly as skilled in walking as you are at cycling hence you can do what they want but pedestrians, alas, must also do what you want. Add to that there are plenty of incapable, unthinking cyclists using the road and not the new cycle lane putting themselves at risk as well as others. Selfish? Stupid? Negligent? As to your point about our business - we already are a stopping point for cycle groups. We do more than cake and coffee. We are bastions of tolerance, not evangelism. We welcome honest, open discourse. And the last business we know of that aimed squarely at those you mention is no longer. They pivoted to that "model" at the height of the CS9 consultation debate. And then they closed permanently. So your promise, or perhaps I should say premise, is as empty as all those that came before it. And I'm all too aware that my knowing that makes many cycle advocates furious. It's why I laugh at those who threaten and advocate a boycott of independent businesses during a pandemic. It reveals a lack of character that undermines their position not to mention a complete lack of empathy.

David Lesniak ● 2123d

‘All car drivers taking to the road at once’ - yes it doesn’t happen, but when a lot of them do (think London going about to go into a higher tier) there were instances of gridlock all over London. Why? Not because of the cycle lanes but because there were too many cars on the road. The hold ups weren’t just in places where there were newly introduced cycle lanes.I’m genuinely  sorry that you Jennifer suffer from congestion when others who are able to use alternative modes of transport decide to stick to the easy and convenient although now more time consuming mode of travel by car. You don’t have the choice of another mode - a lot of them do, but choose not to, and what we have now is the result.The cycle lanes are meant to be about making things easier for cyclists (though the current one doesn’t appear to be achieving that to any degree) but I also think they are probably about encouraging drivers to change their behaviour and get some to move away from cars.For what it’s worth, I think a better solution would be to have a bus lane back, with it extending further out into the carriageway where there are bus stops so that cyclists can still stay in the bus Lane and overtake stationary buses without leaving the bus Lane. And I think cyclists should obey traffic signals, have lights at night and there should be an insurance scheme that those over a certain age should have to subscribe to. I also think that cyclists like Adam (and there are plenty of them around) should be able to cycle without encountering aggression from some drivers (a minority I know). And the converse of course.

Andrew Jones ● 2123d