Forum Topic

TURNHAM GREEN TERRACE PCN APPEALS WEBSITE BEING LAUNCHED

https://nextdoor.co.uk/news_feed/?post=17592196230614&init_source=copy_link_share TURNHAM GREEN TERRACE PCN APPEALS WEBSITE BEING LAUNCHED THIS WEEKEND. ALERT - All those people who have got tickets on Turnham Green Terrace, please do NOT pay the fine if you wish to appeal. This weekend a very detailed appeals website will be launched called Chiswickappeals.com that should help to guide people to appeal their penalty charge tickets (known as PCNs).We believe that there are several strong grounds for appeal on the basis of bad drafting, wrong codes used, lack of information and appallingly misleading or missing signage. If you appeal within 14 days, the amount payable continues to be discounted at 50%. If you appeal within 28 days of the notice - you are in time - there is no discount if you decide to pay. It is really important you get your appeal in - you can always add grounds for appeal later.  PLEASE BE AWARE IF YOU PAY THE FINE YOU CANNOT APPEAL IT.https://www.gofundme.com/f/onechiswick-united-against-streetspace-changes/share

Julian Pavey ● 2205d32 Comments

No sure I see the need for a web site. If someone feels they have determined good grounds for appeal just post a pro-forma for others to use. A crowd funding appeal appears a bit unnecessary.

Francis Rowe ● 2205d

Think your find its about making a stance rather than doing nothing. The fight back as they say

Julian Pavey ● 2205d

The "fight back" appears to be finding flimsy excuses not to pay fines which the drivers, ignoring perfectly clear signs, justly deserve.Julian you are true freedom fighter. Stick it to the man!

Will Watson ● 2205d

Will - did Magna Carta die in vain?The signage could have been a lot better. Only a tiny proportion of drivers would deliberately rack up a fine if they could avoid it.A few weeks ago I had one poor man on the phone in tears. He (used) to drive down Turnham Green Terrace three times a day as part of his job and had just received his first ticket. He was terrified about what was going to land on his door mat over the coming days. Here in Grove Park they initially hid a no right turn sign behind a large tree whose trunk was wider than the sign. I kid you not. But these are the people who installed the lamps for street light in the tree canopy of Park Rd and pushed a through route cycle way down a cu-de-sac (Russell Kerr Close). If you did'nt laugh you would cry.

Cllr Sam Hearn ● 2205d

Would that be the useful cycle route that goes all the way alongside the railway track down to Barnes bridge?

Peter Evans ● 2205d

Except they are not perfectly clear signs .... appeal my friends !!

Madeleine Hazard ● 2205d

Correct name of site is www.chiswickappeal.com(that is without the s.. )It works now but it is still  at  work in progress.

Jackie Elton ● 2205d

The signage is so poor there’s a good case for appeal. Could be a situation where Hounslow’s lack of forethought, due diligence, and application, actually comes in handy for once.

Russell Pearson ● 2204d

I was driving along Chiswick High Rd a week or so ago from Hammersmith end and, approaching TGT, I looked for signage as I’d read about the restriction on this forum. All I saw was a ‘No R/H Turn’ sign on the L/H side of the road – nothing else, and there are two west travelling lanes at this point. Inadequate, and I don’t believe compliant.

Michael Brown ● 2204d

In the States we don't rely on pavement marking as much as here in the UK. Surprising that for the cost of a stencil and some road paint even that signage is missing.

David Lesniak ● 2204d

My son got a ticket from driving down Turnham Green Terrace.Appealed and won with no problems.

Maggie Mckie ● 2204d

And he's learnt his lesson too, win-win.

John Hall ● 2204d

Err, no. He learned he can do it in future, especially with the new appeal page being set up.

Claire Moran ● 2204d

Maggie, did the council allow his appeal or did he need to refer it to adjudication?

Andrew Jones ● 2204d

That depends on the reason the appeal was allowed Clare. He may have been doing one of the things that motor vehicles are allowed to access TGT for e.g. loading.

Andrew Jones ● 2204d

Yes council allowed his appeal

Maggie Mckie ● 2202d

Thanks Maggie. Pleased that your son managed to avoid the stress of having to take his appeal to the adjudicator

Andrew Jones ● 2202d

The chiswickappeal.com website seems well intentioned but I don't understand why they don't simply put a standard response for people to use on the front page of the site. The only way Hounslow will scrap this PCN farm is if revenue is so low due to successful appeals and if there is a form of words that works then it is better that everyone sticks to that.The site seems to want people to draft their own appeals from scratch which might be straightforward to people with some legal training but for most will seem like extra homework. Some won't bother because they might feel the time and effort isn't worth it and many will find the process intimidating and will pay because they are worried about losing the discount.Perhaps the authors of the site are worried about liability but a clear disclaimer should protect them from that. If there is a good reason for taking the approach they have perhaps one of the people who created the site could explain it.

Paul Corcoran ● 2202d

When I have incurred PCNs before I've often been able to find pre-written appeal letters on various drivers' forums.This shouldn't be too complex in this case as the grounds for appeal are likely to be on the basis on inadequate signage and failure to follow the correct procedure for advertising the notice of the restrictions.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 2202d

Yes my son appealed on the grounds that Jeremy said and the council decided to exercise discretion and cancelled PCN.

Maggie Mckie ● 2201d

Do you need to follow the same publication requirements if it’s an Experimental Traffic Order though?

Andrew Jones ● 2201d

I drove down CHR towards Hammersmith and specifically looked for a 'No Left Turn' sign and then when driving back, looked for a 'No Right Turn' sign. Neither of which I could spot. And I was specifically looking, so God knows how anyone who is not aware of these restrictions could possibly see them. No wonder they're raking in all those fines!

Jill Merrett ● 2201d

You won't see those signs because some traffic is permitted to do those very manoeuvres. But the absence of these signs, combined with the presence of other prohibited turn signs as you approach the junction, has the power to mislead. The signage in place may (or may not) be compliant to indicate the restriction in place, but clearly it's not adequate if people keep driving up TGT.Yes, some people were bloody minded and deliberately chose to flout the restrictions, but I suspect the majority of people getting fines now are falling foul of inadequate signage and/or following their Sat Nav instructions like lemmings.My iPhone suggested I turn into Fishers Lane from South Parade yesterday. I ignored the suggestion.

Andrew Jones ● 2201d

The no left turn signs along South Parade towards Fishers Lane are clear there is no doubt and people are in general obeying.  This should be done for both ends of TGT using a no left/right turn arrow  (depending which way you are turning in)  with a separate sign underneath saying 'except for access'.

Helen Whitman ● 2201d

Signage is a lot more obvious by Fishers Lane. It also helps that the approaches to Fishers Lane underpass are a lot less cluttered and busy than either end of TGT.

Andrew Jones ● 2201d

This is truly a fight for our basic rights under Magna Carta whilst Julian may appear as a small minded NIMBY to some he is a fearless freedom fighter to others - righting wrongs and fighting injustice wherever he finds it. After Cllr Hearne set the example by laying infront of the bulldozers in Stavely Road Julian donned mask and tights and leapt into action at TGT the Sheriff of Hounslow must be trembling in the castle

Alex Brown ● 2201d

But traffic still comes through Fishers Lane bridge, maybe because Hounslow, as with TGT, can't be bothered to change the Give Way road markings so people realise something has changed. Both these schemes are now potentially more dangerous than they were before because of this lack of clarity and the confusion it creates. Hounslow's unwillingness to make these simple improvements suggests it must be intentional, so we've already had one serious accident, presumably to be set against the present scheme's significant revenue raising potential.

Peter Evans ● 2200d

'Do you need to follow the same publication requirements if it’s an Experimental Traffic Order though?'I'm not sure on this point but from what I can understand from the details that have been given of the judicial review being pursued by Ealing residents is that a notice of the order still needs to appear in a newspaper circulating in the local area. Unlike for a normal traffic order this only seems to need to go in the week before but it still needs to have been placed for the order to be valid. As no printed newspaper circulates in the Chiswick area, Hounslow Council cannot possibly have fulfilled this part of their legal responsibilities therefore it would provide an additional reason why a PCN issued on Turnham Green Terrace would not be valid.

Jeremy Parkinson ● 2200d

Very unedifying on TGT this afternoon. People at each other very aggressively about whether the lady with the signs is justified in what she’s doing.  Man and a woman screaming at each other. Lots of effing. All the shop owners and estate agents came out to watch. Not very pleasant at all. Neither side does itself any favours by displays of such aggression. I think I know which one instigated the argument but as I’m not sure I shan’t say.  One of the parties then proceeded to walk down CHR talking very loudly about how they were in the right and how they had freedom of speech. They then said that the next time they drive down TGT that they would it be responsible if they knocked the lady over as she was jumping in front of cars (which I don’t think is the case). Unedifying, as I said.

Stewart Jones ● 2199d

Glad I missed that Stewart..I saw the dear lady just before 3.00pm leaving her pitch...Love and admire her to bits..

Stuart Kerr ● 2199d

She wasn't jumping in front of cars but was trying to flag cars down by waving a large sign. I was only passing by but saw a couple of cars turn round on her advice.Very public spirited of her I thought. If only hounslow could have had some CEOs handing out fliers before this scheme went live, and in the first few weeks. Or even put up a dot matrix sign to indicate that access was prohibited and that you were likely to receive a PCN.

Andrew Jones ● 2199d

But in some cases (not all) it is simply down to the arrogance of the car's driver who thinks these rules don't apply to me, and I won't get caught. And as buses are allowed to pass the give way markings are appropriate.

Andrew Jones ● 2199d