Forum Topic

War on Plastic : the Fight Goes On

BBC1 at 9pm tonight.Tea bags and sandwich packaging.Most tea bags are not biodegradable and many of us are probably aware of the plastic mesh they use; what we may not realise is how much of that plastic ends up as tiny particulates that we drink..........

Rima Jones ● 2251d25 Comments

Thanks Rima - I'm sure I saw a trailer but couldn't work out when it was.

Philippa Bond ● 2251d

"what we may not realise is how much of that plastic ends up as tiny particulates that we drink.........."That is disgraceful!!  Surely it's a health risk issue?

Steve Taylor ● 2251d

Let's see what we learn tonight about marketing!

Philippa Bond ● 2251d

It seems that this documentary was started some time ago.The children who were campaigning for Macdonalds to stop giving away plastic toys at parties set up a petition ( with help) and succeeded. Sainsburys have already started reducing their plastics and selling loose fruit and veg for putting into reusable bags although sandwiches are a different matter with all the supermarkets.Teabags is another long standing one with manufacturers being obliged to find alternatives. Some have but others haven’t yet.Of course plastics are a bi-product of the oil industry which is now fighting tooth and nail for survival.If you would like to see more there is unearthed.greenpeace.org oil-backed trade group is lobbying the Trump administration to push plastics across Africa.It seems a pity that a celebrity had to be found to make a bit more known on prime time BBC 1 and involve an orchestra too!

Rima Jones ● 2250d

I came across this very worrying academic paper a few days ago: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-43023-xIt covers microfibre release from washing clothes made from synthetic fibres (another oil by product)."Microfibre release was analysed in relation to the nature and characteristics of the washed clothes. Results showed that microfibres released during washing range from 124 to 308 mg for kg of washed fabric depending from the type of washed garment that corresponds to a number of microfibres ranging from 640,000 to 1,500,000"

Guy Lambert ● 2250d

Synthetic fibres arrived shortly after WW2.My godmother made for me a wonderful rayon dress with smocking and embroidery so my very dear mother thanked her and dressed me in it. Put me in my pram and set off out with my godmother.Much to their dismay I howled and tore at the frock. “Off. Off” and refused to have any more to do with it.My mother was so amused that she kept the frock and I still have it, carefully wrapped in tissue paper as a souvenir.Then it was nylon and polyester. All those clothes and sheets that didn’t need ironing........The fashion industry has to be the very worst  for waste.Sweat shops turning out millions of cheap, throw away clothes and our very own Livia Giugglioli campaigning for it to stop. The Green Carpet Challenge when she had to appear on Colin Firths arm for the Oscars. She  managed to find some old clothes and had them cut and put together to make fabulous gowns. Then persuaded other stars to do the same.Right now the big fashion houses are actually burning their unsold clothes, rather than give them to charities, to protect their labels.

Rima Jones ● 2250d

We started doing Click & Collect from Tesco a few months ago and am astounded at how many plastic bags they use. We religiously take everything out of the plastic bags and reload into our re-useable bags in the car and give them back their plastic bags so they can 'hopefully' re-use them but we are even more astounded that we have never seen a single customer do likewise. Surely Supermarkets should be actively encouraging this?

Steve Taylor ● 2250d

Do we not need to look at the source? Which company is making plastic bags? Do they care about the pollution? Do clothing companies not need to think of returning to natural fabrics - although I realise this may mean wriggling back into non-stretchy jeans.And the problem of all the plastic in the sea. Apart from the water borne micro fibres is this not just due to people not disposing of things properly? I put my plastic in my recycling box and then hope it is monitored and dealt with safely.

Vivienne Cox ● 2250d

I changed away from PG Tips when I realised that there was a problem (there were just empty tea bags left in the wormery) and it was reported that birds were lining their nests with them (was that on here?) as well. They've now reconfigured their tea bags so they should fully compost.  And I'm still trying to move to more loose tea in the pot.We need to buy better and longer lasting clothing and alter and mend and upcycle it rather than just throw it away or send it to the charity shops.  Clothing sent to charity shops used to be better quality.  There are several recommendations on this website where you can get this done if you can't do it yourself.  Swishing parties hopefully will start again to exchange clothing with friends. Stretchy jeans are horribly hot when the weather is hot so not at all practical for a great part of the year.One of my greatest finds in the last 10 years has been the elastic with holes already made all along it for a button fastening so that you can easily alter the waistband on something. I used to just cut a hole in the elastic myself and a continuous choice of holes is much more useful.There are lots of problems with just making natural fabrics in the first place - like the amount of water and pesticides.Perhaps we should hold a quiz on who understands the washing/cleaning and drying instructions on their clothes.  I know I don't know them all - a virtual pub quiz showed me that!  www.loveyourclothes.org.uk

Philippa Bond ● 2249d

As Guy Lambert mentioned above this article is very interesting and it is worrying how the different fabric fibres and mixes are escaping into and out of our homes into the drainage system from our washing.I recently read a water company pamphlet where one of the tips to save water was actually to air our clothes more after wearing them rather than sticking them straight into the washing machine.  It reminded me of how we used to get dressed up in clean clothes and wash our hair to go to the pub and then have to leave the clothes we'd worn outside the bedroom because they stank of smoke when we came home.  Hanging them over the banister worked as did hanging them unwashed on the line.  Not so easy with long hair!I have had a special bag that is supposed to catch the fibres when washing for quite a while and it does visibly catch something.  I have also seen another filter that can be added to the drain pipe on the washing machine but have not investigated that.I think we usually use too much detergent when we wash anyway either from a lack of care bunging stuff into the machine in a hurry or believing the marketing hype.  If you've ever forgotten to put the detergent in you'll realise that unless it was something like nappies you probably won't need to put the wash in again as there was enough left in the machine and enough water going through to wash the clothes adequately.

Philippa Bond ● 2248d

I don't use it myself but a neighbour is an avid user of Vanish,  adding a scoop to every clothes wash.  She took an old sweater of mine 50% cotton/50% acrylic with olive oil drips down the front that was going in the recycle bag.  Back it came with these stubborn stains completely removed.  I still don't want the sweater because of the mixed fibres but what about the Vanish?  How safe is it for the environment?

Jennifer Selig ● 2247d

recyingling - to make an effective change in this direction the govt need to come up with a clearing labelling system (eg colours etc)  on what needs recycling and how.  I was taught back in the mid 1990's (yes that long ago) about how Germany was doing a wonderful job in regard to this - and it seemed to work based on clear labelling.  I

Mike Chisholm ● 2247d

From the manufacturer, Anglo-Dutch company Reckitt Benckiser""There are no additional ingredients present which, within the current knowledge of the supplier and in theconcentrations applicable, are classified as hazardous to health or the environment, are PBTs, vPvBs or Substances of equivalent concern, or have been assigned a workplace exposure limit and hence require reporting in this section".

Brian Coyle ● 2247d

what the supplier/manufactorer do is part/half of the solution.  The other half is how consumers know what to do to recycle properly - what, when, how.  Basically the current system is a mess, yet Germany had a system back in the mid 90's that seemed work?  Does anyone have any first hand knowlege of how well Germany is doing today with recycling?

Mike Chisholm ● 2247d

Not first hand knowledge, but Germany has what is called the Green Dot system."Germany produces 30 million tons of garbage annually. The Green Dot system has been one of the most successful recycling initiatives, which has literally put packaging on a diet. The crux is that manufacturers and retailers have to pay for a "Green Dot" on products: the more packaging there is, the higher the fee. This clever system has led to less paper, thinner glass and less metal being used, thus creating less garbage to be recycled. The net result: a drastic decline of about one million tons less garbage than normal every year". Sounds like we should have something similar here, but those in power seem reluctant to do anything positive.

Brian Coyle ● 2247d

Here are the current OPRL labels plus some other info eg green dot which you will find on some packaging but which means nothing here.  Also info about the mobius loop showing the confusion that this causes:https://www.recyclenow.com/recycling-knowledge/packaging-symbols-explainedand the changes here:  https://www.oprl.org.uk/our-latest-initiative/These are changing (and I've seen some already) to just Recyclable and Not Recyclable as mentioned on the TV programme.A lot of changes have been made over the years like the reduction in thickness of glass and steel and shape and thickness of plastic milk bottles.  You can read about some fascinating pilot schemes on the WRAP website (www.wrap.org.uk) that have been run with well known companies.  WRAP have also worked to reduce food waste with their websites www.lovefoodhatewaste.com and textiles with www.loveyourclothes.org.ukOne of the items that was featured was a bugbear of mine - the mixed material sandwich wrapper.  I've tried pulling the plastic window out and I've tried soaking it to see if they separate. They don't.  Currently it is labelled as Widely Recycled!!  It is also often contaminated with food.We need and hopefully are moving further towards greater producer responsibility.It is noticeable that there is less mixed material packaging now and less polystyrene -PS- (often used for cream and yoghurt pots which are increasingly made of polypropylene -PP) and less polyvinyl chloride -PVC- (often used for shampoo bottles now increasingly made of high density polyethylene -HDPE)

Philippa Bond ● 2247d

I'm sure that Tesco used to have an option of "no bags" or something similar for their deliveries.  If they don't for their Click and Collect perhaps you should ask for it.  Is everybody having the same problem?

Philippa Bond ● 2247d

I don't buy online but a neighbour does and tells me Ocado returned to plastic bags from boxes because of the Virus and disinfecting issues. When I shop I buy loose or when going to Chiswick Food Mkt for say feta, olives etc I take the same tubs over and over and wash and re-use. Also loose tea (much cheaper for families) or as it is just me tea-pig or Pukka which I think are plastic free.

Ruth Mayorcas ● 2247d

What's really annoying is that I've been religiously drying out my tea bags and putting them in my green waste for composting. Why didn't the council tell us? I honestly think they don't care.

Juliet Hogg ● 2246d

Maybe the commercial composters can deal with the tea bags (and it isn't all of them) and sift them out but that doesn't mean that they don't get shredded.  It is worth checking the packaging to see what they say because all the manufacturers should be aware now.  I'd have to watch the programme again to see whose aren't truly compostable.In the wormery the tea composts leaving an empty little bag.  I was horrified to hear that birds were using them to line their nests.  How much is being eaten?We put used tea bags into a ramekin and when cold squeeze them before they go in the compost bin or wormery.  We don't go as far as drying them!  The lack of Council info drives me mad. I'm not sure how far down you can actually dumb down.

Philippa Bond ● 2246d

If you are going to the trouble of drying out teabags, why not loose tea and a tea strainer? It doesn’t really take much longer.

Vivienne Cox ● 2246d

If Hounslow's recycling rate is only around 30%...what is included in the 70% which one understands is sold on at a cost of £100 a ton?Is it not possible to sift that 70% and cut down on the uncycled wsste.I'm still impressed with Marks and Spencers Plastic recycling scheme at Tolworth (see Google) but sad to read that it hasn't been extended to all branches yet...as planned. M&S even recycle bubble wrap and film and more.

Jim Lawes ● 2246d

You can recycle a lot of polythene with the carrier bags at the larger supermarkets.  This long list includes bubble wrap and the plastic that covers dry cleaned clothes... and more but not some kinds.  Do check it out. It is good to see that some bread bags now have a much larger green message about recycling them there. I've just taken a carrier bag with about 4 months of polythene there.The crinkling cellophane type of plastic film doesn't go in the recycling and goes in your black bin with crisp packets and cling film.

Philippa Bond ● 2245d

Lots of info available on synthetic fibres, natural laundry  and cleaning products including making our own ( very simple )ethical consumer.orgthegoodshoppingguide.com friendsoftheearth.ukTru Earth Eco-strips Laundry Detergent.I’ve been using Ecover washing and cleaning products including powdered bleach ( the next best thing to sunshine ) for many years and taking empty bottles to As Nature Intended ( Now Planet Organic ) or The Source for refills.Using tea tree oil as an antiviral hand sanitizer and adding a few drops to bath water, putting a few drops on a burner and breathing in for colds and coughs.Beware of all the greenwash with ads. At present nearly every commercial on tv is full of it!

Rima Jones ● 2243d

Faith in Nature shampoos and conditioners also very good.

Rima Jones ● 2241d