Forum Topic

TGT, Devonshire Road and Fishers.. are people getting tickets?

Are people actually getting tickets, have any appealed and have any appeals so far been successful and if so on what grounds? I see so many cars whoosh down those roads and am curious to know whether they are getting ‘done’, warned or just carrying on. How much are the fines? Or is the Council waiting before implementing enforcement? Ultimately I believe these schemes need to be strongly opposed  but it would be good to know whether enforcement is currently being upheld.

Jackie Elton ● 2266d56 Comments

I think people are 'whooshing' down TGT because they simply don't know they are not allowed to as the signage is so terrible.  Whatever the pros and cons of these new restrictions at least make it clear to people -  a massive yellow sign just before turning would be a good idea.

Helen Whitman ● 2266d

What fascinates me is the way so many drivers are choosing to ignore the road signs enforcing these closures. Is this intentional bloody-mindedness to resist to the closures, or are drivers just not 'seeing' the signs? Either way, it's a dangerous situation that needs to be addressed, either by better signage or more obvious physical barriers or road markings.  The other option would be to abandon the scheme, but it would seem wrong to do that just because drivers' don't want to respect it.

Peter Evans ● 2266d

I believe it's called  Civil Disobedience!

Jennifer Selig ● 2266d

There is no enforcement on Fishers Lane, I do not know about Devonshire or TGT. I asked the question last week on another thread and no one indicated that anyone had received a fine.

Andrew Steed ● 2266d

Andrew, don't tell everyone 'there's no enforcement'! But it's come to something when people increasingly choose not to follow rules or regulations because 'there's no one to make me!' This has come to the fore during the virus crisis, with so many regulations being announced, such as mask wearing and safe distancing, with no accompanying 'enforcement', that people are increasingly saying '..if they can't be bothered to enforce it, why should I bother to do it!'

Peter Evans ● 2266d

I say again maybe some of it is down to signage.

Helen Whitman ● 2266d

I personally think most people are driving down because they don't realise - and Google maps etc aren't showing these roads as no entry.  Others probably see others doing it nad think they can probably get away with it.  But I would just be really interested to know if any parking fines or driving fines have been issued and tested on appeal.I actually think having the lack of parking availability is making it worse - because it makes the traffic go faster - no need to stop for people who are emerging or entering parking spaces - so hardly a pededstrian shoppers paradise.

Jackie Elton ● 2266d

We have to accept that the changing nature of our economy requires that the closure be managed in this way. Law abiding legitimate businesses and means of employment are in decline but drugs, prostitution, financial fraud are seeing good growth and they will be the drivers of economic recovery. Our new main trading partners of China, Russia and Columbia will also require that non-legal sectors become more important.Just as our industrial policy changes so should our transport policy. For far too long schemes have been designed for the benefit of the law abiding but now finally Hounslow and Ealing Council have recognised that they need to give preferential access to the wealth creators who now will be able to proceed through Chiswick on what are effectively private roads where as those who insist on obeying the rules can sit in a big queue of traffic on Sutton Lane North or Acton Lane.

Francis Rowe ● 2266d

A bit like the congestion charge then?

Bruce Hammal ● 2266d

I went down Devonshire this morning. There are two disabled bays and only two loading bays both of which were occupied the rest is a sea of wands and buckets.Clearly more loading bays are a must otherwise your chances of finding a free one are slim.

Adrian Irving ● 2265d

Yesterday I drove to DR to drop off 2 large, heavy bed spreads to Top Hat - nowhere to park so I did what I thought was a legal exit and re-entry to DR. Still nowhere to park. I gave up and to dry cleaning to the place next to Rhythm n Brews, no problem parking.Sorry Mike but blame LB Hounslow and all others who supported this lunatic scheme

Loraine Pemberton ● 2265d

A legal exit Loraine?I think you better cross check that with Guy Lambert to see how long you have to linger before being zapped.He should know but so far isn't telling.

Adrian Irving ● 2265d

It is still legal to enter Devonshire Road but you must stop to drop off, pick up or even shop ... for no more than 20 minutes, using one of the two loading bays.  Driving through, including to come back to try again, is not allowed and you could be fined.  I say "could be" because, until the ANPR cameras are in, enforcement is being done by a mobile CCTV unit which comes and goes and, according to reports, sits near the end of the shops waiting for a vehicle to pass by.  As others have said, if there isn't space in either of the two loading bays, to beat the system you must linger, though no-one is telling us the minimum amount of time we must linger for.  You have up to 20 minutes - in two possible spaces.  We had 30 minutes free stop and shop parking before, in eight spaces on Devonshire Road, plus the 24 (I think it was) spaces on Turnham Green Terrace.  Remember that there is free parking in the Glebe Estate (in fact, the whole of the central Chiswick CPZ) between 12.30pm and 4.30pm Monday to Friday; from 12.30pm on Saturdays; and all day Sunday.  I'm not going soft in my opposition of this scheme; just pointing out that there is still some parking (though reaching it will create rat runs and traffic blocks on other roads, as everyone knows).

Joanna Biddolph ● 2265d

Thanks for the useful update  but if the few parking spaces are full where do we linger without blocking the road ?Sorry but like quite a few others, if I have to deliver / collect heavy items and therefore need to use my car, I'm taking my business elsewhere, I don't need the hassle or the stressWell done to the decision makers at LB Hounslow who've won Gold, Silver and Bronze in being shortsighted, tunnel visioned and truly moronic ! Surely there were other roads that could have been  used that wouldn't negatively impact businesses ?I wonder if the Government Grant will make up for the loss of revenue in Business Rates if businesses cease to trade ?

Loraine Pemberton ● 2265d

As I have said before, I know what the French would.

Adrian Irving ● 2265d

There is free parking in the central CPZ, but of course you can't (legally) get to the Central CPZ via Devonshire Road without stopping somewhere in Devonshire Road/Prince of Wales Terrace. 'Fine' if you are a local and know the other (legal) routes into central CPZ, or a fine if you try to do it from Devonshire Road.

Andrew Jones ● 2265d

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/cars-allowed-back-whitley-bays-18577560  Public pressure.

Mick Collins ● 2265d

Just reading this thread is mad, so someone innocently drives down DR to drop off dry cleaning, can’t park so has to linger before exiting DR and can not try again, this is utter madness. Clearly the traders will suffer I have never heard of such a crazy scheme if we have any active councillors that do anything please stop this local craziness, DR is a great street we should be supporting the traders there was absolutely nothing wrong with this road!

Jayne Thorburn ● 2265d

"Yesterday I drove to DR to drop off 2 large, heavy bed spreads to Top Hat"I few options for you, Loraine.1.) Stop cleaning the linens. 2.) Park in the cycle lane on King Street to drop off at the cleaners by Sainsburys - I watched a woman do precisely that with her duvets on Monday. She looked a bit aggravated but was clearly also desperate.3.) My favorite - go to Top Hat further down King Street so Mike still gets your business. You can double park on the crossing if you can't do so in a proper spot. Pedestrians love having to veer out on to King Street in order to go around cars that block the pavement. It also happens a lot when parents pick up kids from Latymer at Weltje Road. I like walking into the car door to scare/piss them off. Sometimes I do it twice when cars are on either side of the road. And parking wardens are much more sympathetic in W6.

David Lesniak ● 2264d

DavidGreat idea about Top Hat in King Street  I'd completely forgotten about that. However, it's ridiculous that I have to drive further thereby adding pollution to the environment, kinda defeats the object of LBH and Governments grand plan !

Loraine Pemberton ● 2264d

I haven't been following all that's been posted about making Devonshire Road access only. But am I right in thinking that one of the objectives was to stop rat-running? Rat-running to where? I can't imagine that anyone would take Devonshire Road to get to the A4. At the bottom of DR you are obliged to turn left into Dorchester Grove, which means that to arrive at the A4 you have to take Eastbury Grove, Cornwall Grove, Chiswick Lane, and Dorchester Grove again in the reverse direction. Am I missing a trick here?

Robert Fish ● 2264d

If memory serves the bus lane outside Top Hat Hammersmith is now a conned off cycle lane.

Adrian Irving ● 2264d

Indeed it is, Adrian. But in Hammersmith people use the cycle lane for parking to pop into shops and nothing gets enforced.If Loraine were to visit Top Hat Hammersmith she would be proving a multiple of things relative to the W4 traffic initiatives:She is taking her business elsewhere hence the measures are indeed bad for W4 businesses.She would be generating more pollution which she is loathe to do but left with no choice - unless Paul Campbell would like to cycle Loraine's dirty laundry forher.And she would be able to stop-and-shop in another borough without penalty.Accept for the inconvenience to Loraine, its sort of a win-win scenario in terms of data collection for an awful temporary traffic measure. Sorry..."temporary."

David Lesniak ● 2264d

Jayne, You can try again - as long as you follow the same rules: park in a loading bay or linger which, as Loraine says, means blocking the road.  All nine of Hounslow's Chiswick councillors are fighting against this. The six who represent Chiswick Homefields ward and Turnham Green ward issued a statement last week but none of our local media has published it. It called for Cllr Hanif Khan to come to Chiswick to meet residents and traders to hear first hand what locals think. He's been a couple of times but avoided contact with people with opinions. I'll add that statement here a bit later today. We are working on other actions, too.Devonshire Road, and Turnham Green Terrace, are both great roads with fantastic shops along them and I'm proud to have the western sides of both roads in Turnham Green ward. We must fight against unnecessary change that risks livelihoods, creates gridlock and rat runs in residential roads, and ruins Chiswick's character and attractiveness as a place to live and visit.  If you haven't already commented on the official consultation site, please do: https://haveyoursay.hounslow.gov.uk/traffic-and-transport/streetspace-feedback/

Joanna Biddolph ● 2264d

Loraine, you still have the option of parking free in the Glebe Estate between 12.30 and 4.30 Monday to Friday; from 12.30 on Saturday; and all day Sunday (Top Hat isn't open on Sunday - and the team deserves a day off). You can't get there legally via Devonshire Road now. You can turn into Dukes Avenue, go left into Bourne Place, right onto Duke Road then left into Glebe Street.  And, yes, that is a new rat run and we and residents in those roads anticipate gridlock at peak times. There's no link with business rates which are being reviewed and which the Chiswick Shops Task Force has said, in its retail report, should be abolished and that there is a need to look wholesale at the ways retailers are taxed.

Joanna Biddolph ● 2264d

And not 'fine' if you are a resident of the roads that feed into Dukes Avenue from the west, and south, as they could well become new rat runs to the Glebe Estate parking spaces. You can imagine how the residents of those roads feel about that.

Joanna Biddolph ● 2264d

Rather than drive right through Devonshire Road and get a penalty, I'd stop in the road by Top Hat with my hazard lights on and do the necessary. You wouldn't be 'blocking the road' as there shouldn't be any through traffic wanting to get through. Any that is should be thankful you've delayed them as they might thereby avoid a penalty.

Peter Evans ● 2264d

"Yesterday I drove to DR to drop off 2 large, heavy bed spreads to Top Hat - nowhere to park ..."There's more space for dropping off heavy things than you might realise.  Devonshire Road has 3 loading bays, which are quite long (designed for vans), so can easily accommodate 5 cars if the drivers park sensibly.  I saw 2 cars in the bays by Beehive this afternoon, with plenty of space for a third one.  There's also another loading bay as you enter DR from the High Road, outside where Whisk used to be.Unless your car is exceptionally wide, you could also stop on the yellow line opposite Top Hat (outside Genco) and still leave room for traffic to pass.  Remember that all you want is a space to stop while you load or unload, not a proper parking space.

Richard Jennings ● 2264d

Loading bays are for commercial vehicles, are they not?

David Lesniak ● 2264d

David, this is a relevant point. I believe from various posts that anyone can now use the loading bays on Devonshire Rd, although there is no signage to this effect and I am not sure if you got a ticket what your right of appeal would be. But the bays on CHR are still for commercial only, and people still get ticketed for using them. I would not want to risk it. Any wonder people are avoiding DR and TGT....

Paul Green ● 2264d

So we're left with identical signage (assuming there is some) but different usage per loading bay? Is that right?Because I know the loading bay outside our door is commercial only and we have never had 30-minute free parking anywhere near us for customers. Disjointed. Confusing. Typical.

David Lesniak ● 2263d

"Loading bays are for commercial vehicles, are they not?"Only if the signs say "goods vehicles loading only".  Otherwise any vehicle can use them.  None of the Devonshire Road loading bay signs now mention goods vehicles.

Richard Jennings ● 2263d

"But it's come to something when people increasingly choose not to follow rules or regulations because 'there's no one to make me!'"Absolutely. This has been the mantra of hooligan lycra-lout cyclists for a decades when they openly flout the law so why should motorists bother if they believe they will get away with it?

Steve Taylor ● 2263d

Anyone can use the loading bays in Devonshire Road not just goods vehicles for a maximum of 20 minutes . The council should be making this clear. All the uncertainty I see and hear from road users highlight the lack of clear communication from Hounslow Council and in particular Hanif Khan. I have emailed him about this twice but have had no response....

Penny Ledbury ● 2263d

Maybe you could give bis email address here then people can go straight to the source. Thanks.

Helen Whitman ● 2263d

Hanif.khan@hounslow.gov.uk 28 summerhouse ave heston tw5 9d8 07866 785368 good luck

Mick Collins ● 2263d

HelenIt's:-hanif.khan@hounslow.gov.uk

Loraine Pemberton ● 2263d

I've suggested he come down and have a heart to heart!

Helen Whitman ● 2263d

So have we! More than once. No acknowledgement to my email yet, never mind a date and time. In fact, three Hounslow cabinet members are jointly working on these schemes, not just the cabinet member for transport, traffic and parking so best write to all three:Cllr Hanif Khan, cabinet member for transport, traffic and parking: hanif.khan@hounslow.gov.ukCllr Guy Lambert, cabinet member for highways: guy.lambert@hounslow.gov.ukCllr Katherine Dunne, cabinet member for communities and climate emergency: katherine.dunne@hounslow.gov.ukPlus the official consultation with a drop down menu for comments on specific roads/schemes: https://haveyoursay.hounslow.gov.uk/traffic-and-transport/streetspace-feedback/Two of our statements on these schemes are here: 18th June: http://turnhamgreen.yourcllr.com/2020/06/18/central-chiswick-roads-and-parking-cllr-hanif-khan-must-listen/14th August: http://turnhamgreen.yourcllr.com/2020/08/14/central-chiswick-councillors-seek-meeting-with-cllr-hanif-khan-hounslow-cabinet-member-for-transport-traffic-and-parking/Most of our weekly blogs have included comments on these schemes, too.

Joanna Biddolph ● 2263d

"I have never heard of such a crazy scheme if we have any active councillors that do anything please stop this local craziness, DR is a great street we should be supporting the traders there was absolutely nothing wrong with this road!"Unfortunately with this local Stasi it is impossible to support the traders. It is too frustrating to have to consider all the 'rules' imposed by these morons. Easier to shop elsewhere where parking is easy!

Steve Taylor ● 2262d

SteveI agree, and I don't need the logistical hassle and having to check what I can do and where I can go and inadvertently  making a mistake and getting a PCN. Far easier to do some of my chores and shopping outside of Chiswick which is fast becoming a dictatorship thanks to the likes of Cllrs Curran and Khan and Mark Frost.

Loraine Pemberton ● 2262d

At least Cllrs Lambert and Dunne have shown themselves willing to engage on CW4 from time to time, although they do seem to disappear when the questions get tough. Cllr Khan is conspicuous by his absence, which given that he seems to be the main man behind these road schemes is disappointing.

Richard Greenhough ● 2262d

STAY AT HOMEPROTECT THE NHSSAVE LIVESSTAY OFF SOCIAL MEDIASTOP INSULTING YOUR FELLOW CITIZENS

Richard Greenhough ● 2262d

Reminder to stop stalking little Dickie. lt's vewy, vewy silly!

Steve Taylor ● 2262d

"The council should be making this clear. All the uncertainty I see and hear from road users highlight the lack of clear communication from Hounslow Council and in particular Hanif Khan." You are asking far too much of these people.

Steve Taylor ● 2262d

If you stop flinging insults like a baboon flinging its excrement, I will no longer need to remind you of the rules.

Richard Greenhough ● 2262d

I have literally just emailed Cllrs. Khan Lambert and Dunne (sounds like a brand of cigarettes) complaining about their lack of willingness to engage.In fairness I have to say I have received an instant reply from Cllr. Khan.I also have to say it was the kind of pro-forma response I would expect with the usual generalisations and re-statements of the obvious. I have also used the opportunity to copy in Ruth Cadbury and remind her that it is now well over a month since I raised the matter with her and got nothing but a general acknowledgement in reply. I fear nothing will be addressed before the review period is up no matter what sort of confusing mess and chaos results. Being a councillor means never having to say you're sorry....

Bruce Hammal ● 2262d

Well done Bruce

Mick Collins ● 2262d

It's a waste of effort I'm sure but what else can be done? It's no longer the emergency traffic orders per se that I'm complaining about, rather the fact that not only are they failing in their main intended aim, but they have been so badly  implemented that they are already causing possibly irrepairable damage to the quality of life in Chiswick as well as helping to destroy businesses.My fear is that by the time a decision is taken as to whether or not to make any of the measures permanent it will be too late to recover.

Bruce Hammal ● 2262d

Think you could be right Steve. Third email sent to Hanif Khan today .

Penny Ledbury ● 2262d

"I will no longer need to remind you of the rules."Your needs are not my concern little Dickie. If you really need to be a stalking Troll, get some help little chappie. Your stalking is creepy and perverse. Get help!

Steve Taylor ● 2262d

Many drivers today are completely ignoring the signs and driving up and down FL and TGT. It seems pretty pointless to implement a change then not to bother to monitor its impact or regulate it.

Stewart Jones ● 2262d

The words P*ss Up and Brewery come to mind.

Bruce Hammal ● 2262d

Never mind getting tickets, it was very amusing to see one driver getting seriously ticked off as she drove through Fishers Lane earlier this afternoon.She happened to find herself caught behind a group of cyclists (3 adults and a kid) taking up the width of the road as they pedalled at a very leisurely pace towards CHR.All the while oblivious to the Do Not Enter signs, the large Cycles painted on the road, and the pedestrians who were laughing out loud at her silliness, she was instead gesturing furiously at the cyclists to speed up and/or get out of her way, while they took absolutely no notice.But on balance I'm glad there were no cameras to catch her, since had a ticket subsequently arrived in the post, her head would likely have exploded.

Richard Cathcart ● 2253d

We sometimes walk in the road under the Fishers Lane bridge to avoid other pedestrians on the narrow elevated pavement, and we often have to explain the facts of life to cars trying to drive through. Not that they seem particularly interested!

Peter Evans ● 2253d

You have something about walking in roads peter. Like you once or still do think TGT is for walking down in the road where only part is for walking on Does a bus crawl along behind you.

Julian Pavey ● 2253d