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Your common sense is lacking and your logic flawed. One professor (of children's health, nice that you found an expert) says poor mask use risks you infecting yourself.This does not create a logic for not wearing masks. First, this only creates a case for better information on mask wearing (sorely lacking from our government). Plus, the primarily goal of wearing a mask is to protect those around you, not you. Self-inoculation, as your kiddie doctor defines it, might well remain a risk but the risk of infecting others by wearing a mask is reduced. The case for wearing a mask is not dented by your common sense.Your repeated bleating about masks not being required in pubs & restaurants is simply a complaint that the UK rules are very flawed. In trying to please that Weatherspoons bloke, the government is allowing a very flawed and weak set of rules. And thus creating more risks of infections. Nothing to do with the effectiveness of wearing mask. All to do with balancing the need to keep business happening in the hospitality sector.What we have is a very weak and issue ridden set of rules about isolating, limiting transmission and distancing. These weaknesses are somewhat offset by people wearing masks as often as possible. I'm unclear why you continue to think this is a bad thing. I'm also quite irritated that you do not acknowledge that wearing a mask is to protect others in the possibility that you are infected. That, for me, is simple self-centred thinking.You seem to want to refute the benefits of wearing a mask until (1) mass trials have been conducted, and (2) the perfect set of Covid-19 rules are in place, and (3) the perfect 'I won't get infected' mask is invented. It does not take considerable thought to work out that you are also being unrealistic. Why not simply be honest with yourself and state "I don't like them, I don't want to wear one"?

Alan Clark ● 1315d

We cannot permit an entire generation of young people to grow up totally unschooled and uneducated.  It must be a top priority to find some way of making schools/colleges and universities safe for both pupils and their teachers.  These young people are the future of Britain.Is it correct that this current Covid 19 virus, highly contagious, easily infects and spreads but does no more harm to the children and say under 30ties than catching the common cold?  Many carry the virus without any signs at all but infect others.  So means have to be taken to distance the teachers themselves from their fellows and from their pupils while continuing to teach.  I don't see why the children themselves have to be so spread apart - they're probably walking time-bombs but do no harm to one another! There is no doubt that to the older population with existing health issues such as heart, lung, diabetes diseases, Covid19 can be fatal and kill.  Those that do survive a severe attack could well be left with long term disabilities.  This basic fact must be impressed on the youngsters - do they want to be guilty of slaying their granny or a elderly neighbour?  No, I'm sure they don't.The parents must take over once school's out and instil in their off-spring how they must be responsible and do their utmost to avoid infecting their elders by abiding by the rules of distancing and hygiene. The highly vulnerable have to protect themselves from contracting this virus.  The most important thing though is to educate our children NOW!   

Jennifer Selig ● 1315d

"Exactly, also a lot of people say they are not socialising yet, it's obvious to me that is why there are less deaths now."Janice, please, I find it hard to reply to that comment respectfully because it has no credibility whatsoever.  The vast majority of people are 'socialising', so many people have going on staycations, are piling into restaurants to eat out to help out and we've all seen the  images of crowded beaches, camp sites and so forth.  And obviously the level of movement is far greater than it was when the lockdown was in effect from late March to  early June, yet at that time the daily infection rate and daily death rate was off the scale compared to current levels.That's why the level of new cases in both this country and other European countries has been rising again for several weeks now.  But why aren't death rates increasing  proportionately too ? - none of us know the answer, but the statistics show they're not.Turning to Steve's post, I'm pleased he used the words 'morally correct', because I couldn't agree with him more that if everything else is disregarded and all we consider is morals then that is correct.Unfortunately, I don't live in Xanadu, I live on Earth.In utopia, everyone can stay at home and stay safe until our wonderful rulers give us all a tablet or injection that permanently eliminates all risk of anyone getting covid, there's absolutely no danger of the virus mutating or become resistant to the vaccine, and that vaccine is 100% safe.Everyone has a beautiful big home so they don't need to interact with other humans outside their front door, everyone's job or employers enable them to work from home and stay away from other people, and the technology to enable you to do so is perfect no matter which part of the country you live.  Money isn't an issue because everyone has endless amounts of money, or because our rulers ensure that everyone (and I mean everyone) is given the financial support they need without ever having to pay it back.  Everyone you need you can purchase online, no matter were you live or what you need, and its delivered right to your door.A small proportion of people inhabit that existence, but most of the population don't.  That's where the selfishness comes in - "hey, I'm in the fortunate position where I can stay at home until all this is over, so I'm going to tell everyone to do the same".  Personally, I could do precisely that, but the world doesn't revolve around me and nor do I want or expect it to.The fundamental question is whether or not containment, be it on a local or national level, in the form of quarantine or lockdowns, is effective when the benefits are weighed against the harm.  In my view it isn't, because if it was we wouldn't be seeing an increase in cases across most countries.  But if death rates aren't increasing in most countries (and there are obvious exceptions such as Brazil, India, US, Ukraine and Romania to name a few) then aren't we getting to the stage where the vast majority of people who might now get covid are going to be no more ill than if they got a bad cold or the flu ?.But again, where we are in complete agreement is that the alternative is a forced vaccination programme.

Adam Beamish ● 1315d

Just google it How to put on a face maskClean your hands with soap and water or hand sanitizer before touching the mask.Remove a mask from the box and make sure there are no obvious tears or holes in either side of the mask.Determine which side of the mask is the top. The side of the mask that has a stiff bendable edge is the top and is meant to mold to the shape of your nose.Determine which side of the mask is the front. The colored side of the mask is usually the front and should face away from you, while the white side touches your face.Follow the instructions below for the type of mask you are using.Face Mask with Ear loops: Hold the mask by the ear loops. Place a loop around each ear.Face Mask with Ties: Bring the mask to your nose level and place the ties over the crown of your head and secure with a bow.Face Mask with Bands: Hold the mask in your hand with the nosepiece or top of the mask at fingertips, allowing the headbands to hang freely below hands.  Bring the mask to your nose level and pull the top strap over your head so that it rests over the crown of your head.  Pull the bottom strap over your head so that it rests at the nape of your neck.Mold or pinch the stiff edge to the shape of your nose.If using a face mask with ties: Then take the bottom ties, one in each hand, and secure with a bow at the nape of your neck.Pull the bottom of the mask over your mouth and chin.How to remove a face maskClean your hands with soap and water or hand sanitizer before touching the mask.Avoid touching the front of the mask. The front of the mask is contaminated. Only touch the ear loops/ties/band.Follow the instructions below for the type of mask you are using.Face Mask with Ear loops: Hold both of the ear loops and gently lift and remove the mask.Face Mask with Ties: Untie the bottom bow first then untie the top bow and pull the mask away from you as the ties are loosened.Face Mask with Bands: Lift the bottom strap over your head first then pull the top strap over your head.Throw the mask in the trash. Clean your hands with soap and water or hand sanitizer.

Bernard Allen ● 1320d

People do know Dr Harries is a PHD medical administrator in public health and neither a medical nor scientific doctor.  Perfectly entitled to be called Dr but would not be able to diagnose a splinter accurately (that's a direct quote from my cousin in law the ENT surgeon)  Sorry not written anywhere just my memory.  I am in the top 10 of most likely to die from this virus Everyone into my flat wears a mask gloves and an apron.  They wash their hands before wearing gloves and again when changing them.  They do not wear their street mask into my property and they do not wear their indoor masks out of my home.  They have gel and wipes to use on the bus or other public transport.  I wear a mask and do any minor procedures which would normally involve touching me and I use gloves and gel too. I use it after opening parcels and letters and we recycle bin the junk mail (where did it all go?) it.  i wear the PPE out of respect to my carers and other NHS workers who need to come to keep me healthy because you never know.  Last week two of my carers tested positive for antibodies and were told they had the virus around March.  They were both in my home before then and after then and it is a testament to my agency and the professionalism of my carers that I have not caught COVID19 from them. It is freedom of choice not to wear a mask as told to but it is also freedom of choice for people not to get on the bus with you or get off the bus when you get on.  The Bubonic Plague which was 1346 to 1353 7 years long and the deadliest pandemic ever killing around 2000,000,000 in 7 years. There were plagues before it and there are still plagues today.  Wearing a mask is like carrying an umbrella if it rains you need it if it doesn't rain your carry it just in case.  IF we can do this about water coming from the sky why can't people do it for something that may kill them?Plague Dr 1690 PPE recognise anything?https://www.historyanswers.co.uk/medieval-renaissance/why-did-doctors-during-the-black-death-wear-beak-masks/#:~:text=Plague%20doctors%20wore%20a%20mask,which%20they%20believed%20was%20airborne.&text=The%20costume%20was%20worn%20by,Rome%20and%20300%2C000%20in%20Naples.

Caroline Carney ● 1320d

Nick, a fair question.If they are coughing they ought to assume they are infected so they should be isolating themselves at home.  I think that by specifying a cougher you have missed the point of the pro mask argument that there a asymptomatic cases who can spread the virus.  Your one in five ratio does not reflect he actual proportion of people infected at any time.  The ratio is something like 1 in 1,900https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/datasets/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveydata (table 1b in the survey data)The NHS test and Trace system defines the conditions under which virus transmission is likely to occur:"Close contact means:having face-to-face contact with someone (less than 1 metre away)spending more than 15 minutes within 2 metres of someonetravelling in a car or other small vehicle with someone (even on a short journey) or close to them on a plane"So I would avoid engaging in face to face conversation with the splutterer.https://www.gov.uk/guidance/nhs-test-and-trace-how-it-worksAs I have said previously on this forum I'm not an anti mask absolutist.  The scientific evidence is equivocal but if there is a small benefit then I can see the argument for their use in the active stages of an outbreak.  As there are also documented societal and health harms associated with mask wearing there comes a point where these harms outweigh the benefits.Personally, If anyone coughs in my vicinity in an enclosed space I will give them a cold stare, ostentatiously put on my mask and walk away from them.  Apart from the mask bit this is what I did before we had heard of Covid-19.  In fact we have known for a long time "coughs and sneezes spread diseases"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGop2QiSWLU

Andy Riley ● 1321d

Its basic common senseMasks consist of woven material. As virus particles will be trapped by the vertical and horizontal threads of the weave but not by the air gaps in betwteenthe more closely woven the mask and the thicker the weave the more virus particles will be trapped. Although obviously the air gaps between the threads will need to be sufficient to allow the passage of air and thus possibly virus particles; hence a degree of compromise.Even a person of average intelligence shouldn't require "experts" to explain any of that to themApparently Dr Jenny Harries, one of the DCMOs, who said that  masks have "a nasty habit of trapping the virus."Exactly ! Thats what masks are supposed to do. If a person wasn't wearing the mask then the virus being "trapped" by the mask would otherwrise be being breathed in, Again basic common sense and you don't need an expert to tell you that.Now what Dr Harroes may have gone on to say, which has been deliberately ignored was that as a result masks need careful handling. So that after touching theoutside of the mask before storage the wearer should wash their hands. Again basic common sense.As it happens I feel people like Brian Coyle haveevery right to go around without a mask potentially breathing out clouds of Covid virus. All I do ask is that people such as Brian should be required by law made to wear a tall hat, preferably in fluorescent orange with a rotating light on the top along with a klaxon so that people  can see and hear them approaching from a distance and take any necessary avoiding measures.Again its only common sense.michael adams 

Michael Adams ● 1324d

Back in April, the WHO guidance was:“Persons with symptoms should: wear a medical mask, self-isolate, and seek medical advice as soon as they start to feel unwell”Note that this guidance is to limit the contagion from a person with Covid-19. Not to protect the wearer. This is actually the most important concept to understand.But at that time there was concern on PPE availability for health workers, so WHO also noted:“The use of medical masks in the community may create a false sense of security, with neglect of other essential measures, such as hand hygiene practices and physical distancing, and may lead to touching the face under the masks and under the eyes, result in unnecessary costs, and take masks away from those in health care who need them most, especially when masks are in short supply.”Note that this is not challenging the effectiveness of masks if used properly.Later in WHO updated their guidance:“Studies of influenza, influenza-like illness, and human coronaviruses (not including COVID-19) provide evidence that the use of a medical mask can prevent the spread of infectious droplets from a symptomatic infected person (source control) to someone else and potential contamination of the environment by these droplets.”“taking into account the available studies evaluating pre- and asymptomatic transmission, a growing compendium of observational evidence on the use of masks by the general public in several countries, individual values and preferences, as well as the difficulty of physical distancing in many contexts, WHO has updated its guidance to advise that to prevent COVID-19 transmission effectively in areas of community transmission, governments should encourage the general public to wear masks in specific situations and settings as part of a comprehensive approach to suppress SARS-CoV-2 transmission”The guidance also highlights potential disadvantages, examples being:“potential increased risk of self-contamination due to the manipulation of a face mask and subsequently touching eyes with contaminated hands; a false sense of security, leading to potentially lower adherence to other critical preventive measures such as physical distancing and hand hygiene”The biggest risk is poor usage and management, so:“clearly communicate the purpose of wearing a mask, where, when, how and what type of mask should be worn. Explain what wearing a mask may achieve and what it will not achieve, and communicate clearly that this is one part of a package of measures along with hand hygiene, physical distancing and other measures that are all necessary and all reinforce each other”“inform/train people on when and how to use masks safely, i.e. put on, wear, remove, clean and dispose”I note that the UK government has largely failed on these two key points.

Alan Clark ● 1326d

You're cherry picking data (again) why am I not surprised?The statements that Professor Whitty made regarding masks that you cite were made on the 4th March, 3 weeks prior the country going into lockdown & since then a lot has been discovered about how the virus is transmitted. Including Austria where transmission of the virus was reduced by 90% subsequent to mask wearing being made compulsory.https://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/25410/20200421/austria-90-drop-coronavirus-cases-requiring-people-wear-face-masks.htmhttps://healthybuilds.com/austria-has-90-drop-in-coronavirus-cases-after-requiring-people-to-wear-face-masks/Furthermore Professor Whitty has amended his mask advice in the light of recent evidence, as scientists will habitually do:https://www.gov.uk/government/news/public-advised-to-cover-faces-in-enclosed-spacesIn addition Dr Jenny Harries "clarified" her remarks to state that she was referring to medical masks, which should be kept for frontline health personnel, not specifically "face coverings"https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/dr-jenny-harries-issues-clarity-18136458The advice about not wearing masks in a pub is nonsensical (like an awful lot of this governments approach to this virus) but what has been demonstrated is that the overwhelming number of outbreaks have been traced to indoor events: "In a study of 318 outbreaks in China, transmission in all cases except one occurred in indoor spaces [64]."https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/covid-19/latest-evidence/transmissionSo, to conclude if you're genuinely, literally dying for a pint, go to a pub with no face covering. Why wear a mask? Because my mask protects you, your mask protects me. Is 30 minutes of minor discomfort whilst shopping really too much to ask? I've been wearing a mark whilst shopping for the last 4 months, I don't especially look forward to it, but I regard it as an infinitesimally small price to pay & in the current circumstances no more than common good manners.

Huw Burford-Taylor ● 1326d