Forum Topic

An Italian job

In all the current debate over the future of traffic in Chiswick there is a large green and gold elephant in the room (or at least next door). It was brought back into my consciousness with a news item today from Italy.In August 2018 Genoa's Morandi bridge collapsed, with tragic loss of life.In August 2020 the rebuilt bridge is preparing to reopen.Meanwhile....In April 2019 Hammersmith bridge was closed to vehicular traffic because it had become dangerous.By August 2020 there is still no date for the bridge to reopen. The work to fix it is projected to last 3 years but as yet there is no agreement as to who will pay if it ever starts.As we await the full impact of the emergency traffic measures in W4 the  role of Hammersmith bridge in the equation never seems to get a mention. I am merely pointing out what can be done with sufficient organisation and will; not something normally associated with Italian governments. It's an interesting comparison. (Please don't turn this into another sterile inter-lobby slanging match - we have enough of those already.)

Bruce Hammal ● 2281d18 Comments

"Please don't turn this into another sterile inter-lobby slanging match"Wouldn't dream of it.....only interrupting to say re important local connections and your over-stretched headline, the family of the late and great film director, Peter Collinson, who gave us "The Italian Job" - live in Chiswick.... now it's straight back to the traffic...

Stuart Kerr ● 2281d

It would be easier, and probably cheaper as well, to demolish Hammersmith Bridge and build a new one.It is a listed structure though so that isn't an option.  They have to work with the existing bridge, which is a lot more complex.It's not a valid comparison.Politics is slowing it down, but it would never have been as simple as you suggest.

Al Webber ● 2281d

Agreed, it's a major restoration of a listed structure rather than just throwing up some reinforced concrete.

Paul Scullion ● 2281d

Maybe it would be better to dismantle Hammersmith Bridge and rebuild it upriver as a pedestrian-only access to Kew Gardens, and then put a modern bridge in its place.

Richard Greenhough ● 2280d

Interesting Stuart.Where in Chiswick did Peter Collinson live?

Rima Jones ● 2280d

I'm not sure politics is the major problem, though that rarely helps.Cold, hard cash seems to be at the root of this one. If you'll forgive another over-stretched international analogy, there seems to be something of a Mexican standoff between LBHF, TFL and central government, all of whom of course scarcely have a pot to **** in at the moment. Here's the take of our local authority neighbours in W6."Residents of Hammersmith & Fulham will NOT be paying for the repair of the bridge. They pay enough already and this bridge is used by, and belongs to, all Londoners.Hammersmith & Fulham Council is working with TfL to submit a bid to the government to fully fund the restoration of one of the capital’s most iconic river crossings."  I suspect that statement has been somewhat overtaken by events.

Bruce Hammal ● 2280d

Bruce, when I heard the news my immediate thoughts were the same as yours.I have driven over Italian bridge a number of times and hope I will agian.Like most things in life I think it's all about motivation.The squabbles and money would soon be sorted if the will was there.My claim to fame? I valued Mr Caine's riverside home in Windsor back in the 70's. "Big? B I G, big" (quote from The Italian Job)

Adrian Irving ● 2280d

Hang on lads, I've got a great idea!

Bruce Hammal ● 2280d

this listed thing is a bit....annoying.  by rights the Thames river is listed and probably is.  And that particular crossing point formed of geographic/physical dimensions (un)connecting north and south london would be too as well.  And since the river is a living thing and was there before the bridge, it was never possible to list that bridge completely from the start???

Mike Chisholm ● 2280d

Vauxhall Bridge will be closed from the 9th for urgent repairs due to reopen in late November.That is unless .....? or 'Mr Bridger' has different plans.

Adrian Irving ● 2280d

IIRC the Italian bridge collapsed because it used prestressed concrete surrounding steel cables and water got into the space around the cables corroding the steel.The same construction technique was used on Hammersmith flyover and they did do repairs to it in the early 2010s because the cables were suffering from the same problems that led to the collapse of the bridge in Italy.  You can see the additional cables installed if you stand under the flyover.So I'd say that is kudos to the UK engineers as they spotted the problem and did the remedial work to Hammersmith Flyover that stopped it collapsing in the first place...Doubtless if Hammersmith Bridge collapsed in a similar fashion to the bridge in Italy, a new bridge could also be built quicker and cheaper.  No need to worry about a listed structure.

Michael Robinson ● 2280d

its not one of those 'heated' bridges is it?

Mike Chisholm ● 2280d

Michael will no doubt correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the cables in the structure of the Hammersmith flyover had heating elements incorporated in order to help prevent corrosion, Unfortunately a bit like the Hammersmith bridge problem no agreement could be reached about who would pay for the electricity so they were never switched on. The repair job is very impressive though and was done pretty quickly as I recall.

Bruce Hammal ● 2280d

I heard they couldn't plug it in.  Although was it someone unplugged it?  Who was Mayor at the time?  Although I don't think it was quickly fixed (you are joking are you?).  Quickly discovered, yes (ie no other inspection/report in the past 50 or so years had discovered it), quickly closed, quickly impacted

Mike Chisholm ● 2280d

I thought it had been unplugged from the start, way before London had an elected mayor. Maybe my memory is playing tricks over the time it took to fix things - was it that the road was reopened quite quickly and the full repairs followed? Anyway it was quick in comparison with the Hammersmith bridge saga.

Bruce Hammal ● 2280d

I believe the flyover was prioritised as the Olympics were in the offing, and it’s bang on the way in from the airport.

Vivienne Cox ● 2280d

https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/exclusive-no-money-for-hammersmith-bridge-in-1-3bn-shovel-ready-fund-04-08-2020/

Michael Robinson ● 2277d

Agreed.  It may be more complicated than just restoring the beautiful original Hanmmersmith Bridge.  Maybe an additional structure is also needed.  But whatever, it is difficult for West London to survive without another working What fun. And all enormous pressure on Chiswick.

Rae Lewis ● 2277d