Forum Topic

Re: Harvard Hill

Since this was implemented on Thursday 30/7/20 , it has been a nightmare  THERE IS GOING TO BE A MAJOR ACCIDENT!! Vehicles are ignoring no entry signs , still turning onto A4/M4on the wrong side of road , coming head to head with vehicles turning off A4 into Harvard Hill, there is multiple vehicles either trying to 3 point turn , using the pavements & our driveways , often wheel spinning away causing danger to pedestrians & other road users , we now have a continuous stream of traffic, road rage , revving engines, beeping horns day & night , traffic on A4 building up & near crashes due to not being able to continue into Harvard Hill as met with vehicles blocking entrance with turning round or just pushing through restrictions. I’m also extremely concerned for the safety of children when school returns , as this is pushing traffic straight into their path. I am also a carer in Hounslow borough , instead of being able to turn left to travel towards Brentford , I now have to go down barnaby gardens , Gordon road , faulconburg , elmwood road , to try & pull out onto Sutton court road , to turn left on A4, to go past my road to start my journey We are 1 of only 4 houses on Harvard Hill , yet we have all the problems , we NEVER had any of this until now., it used to be a quiet road , now none of us get any peace.

Connie Murphy ● 2281d53 Comments

Just wait till everyone is back at work see sutton ct rd then...absolute lunacy.

Peter Brown ● 2281d

Yep. It's quite mental. We live at least 20 houses away from you and can hear it all too... I can see this causing a major problem if not a serious accident soon enough.

Brad Smith ● 2281d

"Vehicles are ignoring no entry signs"No. Drivers are ignoring no entry signs. The vehicles are innocent. The drivers are not.

Ken Munn ● 2281d

At least two cars were making an illegal left onto CHR yesterday afternoon from the wrong side of SHG.  Super dangerous and lethal if a vehicle was making a legal left into SHG off the High Road.  Surely these seemingly random closures are just several accidents waiting to happen.  And don't get me started on traffic in the vicinity of Kew Bridge!

Jane Martin ● 2281d

LBH really haven't thought this through, have they ? Are there large signs stating "No Access to A4" at the Fauconberg and Elmwood Road junctions on Sutton Court Road yet ? Or on the Grove Park Terrace junctions with St Marys Grove, Burnaby Gardens, Burnaby Crescent and Fauconberg Road ? If not, then LBH will be morally responsible for any accidents on Harvard Hill, as well as for the inconvenience to the local residents.

Richard Greenhough ● 2280d

You can’t call it an “accident” if someone goes through a No Entry sign on the wrong side of the road. There is nothing accidental about that, it is deliberate.There is signage on the approaches to Wellesley Rd and Stile Hall Gardens but that still hadn’t stopped some drivers from going through the No Entry signs on the wrong side of the road. The responsibility lies with the person in control of the car. No one else.

Michael Robinson ● 2280d

Just to add, low traffic neighbourhoods are being implemented all over London and drivers are breaking laws everywhere else too. This is video of drivers going onto the pavement to get around a road closure in Lewisham.Low traffic neighbourhood / modal filters on Upwood Road, Lewisham. pic.twitter.com/qlTDP5TSYS— Tom Edwards (@BBCTomEdwards) June 30, 2020

Michael Robinson ● 2280d

If LBH have not put up signage at all the junctions I mentioned, then they have a moral responsibility for any crashes on Harvard Hill, quite apart from the inconvenience they are causing local residents.

Richard Greenhough ● 2280d

Looks like another poorly thought-out road closure.

Richard Greenhough ● 2280d

I agree that the responsibility for that final decision to carry out the manoeuvre lies with the drivers concerned and they are wrong to do so. However some culpability does rest with whoever is responsible for the flawed design of the arrangement at the Harvard Hill junction. For the local authority to ignore the reality of the situation and do nothing to reduce the likelihood of a  collision (note - not "accident" Michael!) is frankly negligent.

Bruce Hammal ● 2280d

Hounslow stated this closure would start on 6 August. Perhaps by then they might have got the signs in place. Poor communication.

Vivienne Cox ● 2280d

I'm not sure that improved signage alone will obviate the risk, as there will always be some drivers who decide just to take the risk if there is little likelihood of sanctions. This is the trouble with these "temporary" measures - since in theory at least they might be removed after the trial period, they are being done as cheaply as possible. What price on someone being killed or seriously injured?

Bruce Hammal ● 2280d

LBOH haven’t got the signs. There is such a demand for new signage, the sign makers cannot keep up with the demand.LBOH should really wait until they have all the equipment and street furniture to carry out the closure.If they go ahead and only carry out half the job I think it leaves them responsible for any problem leading up the closure of the road.To drive around a barrier is down to the driver of the vehicle  .But insurance company’s will look for any excuse not to pay out . So a badly designed road closure measure is great get out for them.They will just tell you to sue the local authority’s involved.

Bernard Allen ● 2280d

"Looks like another poorly thought-out road closure."Looks like an 'entitled' Porsche driver to me.

Ken Munn ● 2280d

There is a sign up on the junction of Fauconberg where someone would turn left to go towards Harvard Hill.  It clearly says No Access to A4 via Harvard Hill.I don't know what other signs are around.

Al Webber ● 2280d

I am in Wolseley Gardens at the bottom of Harvard Hill. Nothing as you approach it. The only sign is road closed when you have turned into Harvard Hill gone up it and actually got to the barrier. Then you would have to do a dodgy three point turn, worrying about people turning in from the A4.

Vivienne Cox ● 2280d

There is a large "no access to the A4" sign at the bottom of Harvard Hill. You can see it if you are coming from Burnaby. We need a sign on the other side of the road for anyone coming from St Mary's and this has already been fed back to the team who are leading the project

Iris Hill ● 2279d

They need signs on the feeder roads off Sutton Court Road and Grove Park Terrace, to discourage cars from proceeding through the residential roads to the foot of Harvard Hill and then having to return. Perhaps that obvious requirement could be fed back to the team who are leading the project ?

Richard Greenhough ● 2279d

Ultimately this road closure is surely only intended to work in conjunction with the other proposed elements of the "South Chiswick" scheme. Unless there are notices all the way back along the established rat-runs then it will inevitably result in drivers following well-used trails until they have got very close to Harvard Hill. At this point it seems significant numbers of them are pressing on regardless, some all the way. Without adequate enforcement  I'm afraid lawlessness will prevail. Why not wait until everything else is in place? As things stand I just can't see who is supposed to benefit from this measure in isolation.

Bruce Hammal ● 2279d

They have the sign on Fauconberg where you turn left.  At that point you can keep going onto Elmwood without having to do a U turn.

Al Webber ● 2279d

If you look at the plan you will see that signs are planned for Grove Park Terrace junction Grove Park Road and St Thomas Road and junction Fauconberg and Sutton Court

Iris Hill ● 2279d

"If you look at the plan you will see that signs are planned.."Where can this plan be seen ?Anyway, the barrier on Harvard Hill should not have been installed until all the necessary signs were in place.

Richard Greenhough ● 2279d

Richard,If you look at the Hounslow website, you will see information about all of the current Streetspace projects including the South Chiswick scheme.https://www.hounslow.gov.uk/info/20053/transport/2171/hounslows_streetspace/2

Michael Robinson ● 2279d

Thanks, Michael. So according to the plan there will be no less than six signs at the top of Harvard Hill (which is a bit like shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted), one at the foot, one at the Fauconberg/Gordon junction, one at the Fauconberg/Sutton Court junction, one just north of the level crossing on GP Terrace and one at the south end of GP Terrace. Total eleven. How many of those are currently in place ? I would add one at the Elmwood/SC junction, one each on the turns into St Marys, Burnaby Gardens and Burnaby Crescent off GP Terrace, and one at the north end of GP Terrace. But what do I know - I only lived there for nearly two decades.

Richard Greenhough ● 2279d

Richard,You will see the link to the consultation page on the link I posted.  You can provide your comments about sign locations there.

Michael Robinson ● 2279d

https://andersonshelter.blogspot.com/2020/08/help-dispel-big-lie-council-want-to.html  You may or may not find this interesting Islington council..we are all being stuffed by jesus sandell wearers who really need to be in a commune not running  councils

Peter Brown ● 2279d

Funny that some posts by Pete Mayes on NextDoor and Peter Brown on this forum appear to be identical.I seem to remember that Pete Mayes was a cabbie and was banned from this forum.  Then Peter Brown posts a link to a protest organised by cabbies.It could all be a coincidence of course.

Michael Robinson ● 2279d

Ooooo Michael. You are awful....

Ken Munn ● 2279d

I know Pete Mayes Michael he is a neighbour.To be fair we do have similar views on life is that a bad thing?

Peter Brown ● 2279d

Pete Mayes views got him banned from this forum so the people who run it may not be that happy if your views are very similar.

Michael Robinson ● 2279d

No Michael he told me why he got banned and it was nothing to do with his views.Very unfairly by the sound of it he has a sense of humour I am more serious a more introverted individual.

Peter Brown ● 2279d

..Can we stick to the thread now please

Peter Brown ● 2279d

Advance signs saying 'No Access to A4 at Harvard Hill' or similar aren't necessarily that informative to most drivers, who won't know the names of the streets they customarily drive along to get to 'that little cut through' onto the A4. So there's bound to be a fair amount of traffic that will continue to use their familiar route, until they find out for themselves that they can't.

Peter Evans ● 2279d

They certainly will find out! There was a camera car yesterday and the bloke on it said he had given out 20 tickets in the morning but only one in the afternoon. So maybe the word is getting around.

Iris Hill ● 2279d

"So there's bound to be a fair amount of traffic that will continue to use their familiar route, until they find out for themselves that they can't."They'll only do that once. A bit like the Wellesley Road and Stile Hall Gardens rat runners.

Ken Munn ● 2279d

Apparently in the 1960s there was no radar speed trap equipment on the Isle of Wight. So when Hampshire Police brought kit across on a ferry, the ferry guys would a phone a mate or two, the mates would phone more mates ad infinitum and within the hour the whole of the Island knew not to speed that day.

Ken Munn ● 2279d

By the way Michael that is not a Taxi demo that is a demo organised by the people living in the middle of their streetsafe scheme.Good luck to them

Peter Brown ● 2279d

Ken I was at school on the Island in the 60's and chaos reigned even then with new traffic measures being introduced, as described below by a fellow schoolboy."One thing I remember really well was the chaos caused when the installed the first set of traffic lights on the Island at the Canning Day corner (by the bus station - I think there is now a Safeway there). Lots of Islanders wouldn't drive on the mainland so they didn't know anything about traffic lights. I recall sitting on the bus on the way home from school while the driver desperately tried to circumnavigate confused Islanders as he attempted to make his way into the bus station!"

Adrian Irving ● 2279d

I remember catching the ferry across, and being told to put my watch back 25 years!

Ken Munn ● 2279d

Many "oldies" think the past 25 years was better than the 'progresses' made up to the present day.  If you've an idle moment you could list the good things that have happened - presume they outweigh the miserable or plain bad ones!

Jennifer Selig ● 2278d

I'll make a start.SatnavStreaming TVMicro mobilityPharmaceuticalsGoretexAirbagsMicrowavesSmart phonesWifiDecent coffeeNuclear arms controlIncreased reliability of just about every mechanical and electrical deviceRewildingThe InternetVarious versions of 'trainers' as comfortable footwear.Double glazingSpotifyLED lightingCleaner power - solar & windLaptopsThat'll do for now.

Ken Munn ● 2278d

The Harvard Hill “closure” isn’t working - it’s not stopping rat running and it’s not working as a road closure.Today I walked along Harvard Hill 4 times (early afternoon, so not peak times, and still school holidays).Journey 1:  4 cars were on the Hill, doing 3 point turnsJourney 2: as I left to go towards Grove Park, a car swung in, only to come out again: it then drove along Wolsely Gardens, Whitehall Gardens and had to turn round in Whitehall Park Road (I’m still trying to figure that one out). Last seen heading down Gordon Road - I hope they found the A4 in the end. Journeys 3 and 4 -three cars in total just ignored the closure and drove onto the A4At some point anecdote must turn into evidence ...

Sarah U Benson ● 2262d

A couple of weeks ago, Google maps had HH as closed. Now they haven't which is very strange.

Iris Hill ● 2262d

Who do Google take instruction from?

Philippa Bond ● 2262d

On Monday at approximately 11am Traveling towards the m4 two cars came out of Harvard Hill and drove onto the M4.On the way back to Chiswick at 2pm I looked over and saw three cars waiting to exit Harvard Hill for the A4.The blocked exit isn't working.

Bernard Allen ● 2262d

I've just been to Harvard Hill (Friday 3.30pm) to see first hand if the barriers are being ignored.  I didn't have to wait long,  2mins total:2 cars decided to turn back but doing so created a queue of 5 cars and 2 box vans,  as soon as way was clear the first car in the queue jinked round the barrier followed by all other cars and vans - people are sheep.  During this a driving instructor turning in off the A4 had to take evasive action and ride the horn.Now,  I'm actually in favour of this closure but the way this is implemented is going to result in accidents -  one wonders if this is perhaps intentional so that it will be decided shutting in both directions is the only course of action (which I wouldn't agree with).The signage is totally insufficient,  there needs to be no-entry signs either side of the opening as you head back to the A4 with a clear do not cross this point message.The current 'road closed' is ambiguous as drivers are quite used to seeing these signs and proceeding for access,  especially when they can see their goal.Part time cameras are not enough - if there is an accident here Hounslow Highways must surely accept their liability in such a poor design adjacent to a high speed piece of A road.

Jim Roberts ● 2262d

The project team informed all sat nav companies at the beginning that HH was closed northwards.

Iris Hill ● 2262d

The other problem about Harvard Hill is for traffic turning left into HH from the A4 (my usual route home). The barriers make it difficult to turn left safely, particularly if traffic is parked up to the junction on the east side of HH. And if traffic is travelling northbound, what option do I have if I meet it on the wrong side of the road as I make my left turn?This scheme is utterly misconceived, unsafe and does nothing to enhance our quality of life. It diverts heavy building traffic on to back streets which they previously had no need to use. An overwhelming majority of my neighbours oppose it, as do I.What I find extraordinary is that none of these shenanigans do a single thing to aid the cause of day to day cycling in Grove Park. What would help cycling here would be attention to pot holes on our roads and more dropped kerbs on the approaches to the A4 underpasses.

Brendan McCarthy ● 2262d

Also, heavy traffic will be diverted down Harvard Hill south once Grove Park Terrace is closed during rush hour. Their main route will be St Mary’s Grove.

Russell Pearson ● 2262d

More like incompetence from the project team. Do these muppets have a clue how to fully notify Google or did they just post a local report?

Russell Pearson ● 2262d

I've already sugested that it's very simple to stop ALL heavy goods vehicles entering Grove Park and I include Strand ot Green (the unfamiiar South Chiswick).  Just put up signs at allentry points bannin g all goods vehicles over ---tons.  These signs are pretty commonplace and seem to be effective.  Where building materials, furniture lorries are needed, then access can be applied for & a special licence granted.  This would apply to Council refuse and recycling lorries.

Jennifer Selig ● 2262d

Whatever they have done, it hasn't worked.  I was on HH yesterday for around 45 minutes, cars were streaming round from Burnaby Gardens.  A majority of drivers I spoke to said their sat nav had brought them this way.

Liz Combes ● 2261d

If these drivers were using Sat Nav they can't be locals can they?  One or tweo could have been overnight guests/visitors on their way home.  How many cars did you actually see during your 45 mins?

Jennifer Selig ● 2261d