Forum Topic

Black Lives Matter peaceful socially distanced protest.

https://www.facebook.com/events/565560824145584/Sunday, June 28, 2020 at 1:30 PM – 5:30 PMNext Week: 13–22°C Partly CloudyChrist Church W4Town Hall Avenue, Chiswick, W4 5DT                                                                                                                                      Join us on Sunday 28th June 1.30 pm as we hold a peaceful protest with social distancing to continue to show solidarity with protesters against racism and demand racial justice globally. This is a family-friendly peace protest with a welcoming atmosphere and music. Please bring your beautiful artwork and Banners. We are hoping to use in a future art installation project. We will line with social distancing by the wide pavements next to the Christ Church, on the high street. If you can not find space in the line and socially distance please move behind the line on the green behind the railings to join in.Meeting point the entrance to Christ Church Turnham Green at 1.30pm then proceed to line up. We do not want to spread too far. To avoid this we can layer the lines up by going behind the railings if there are a lot of us.Aim- Kneel for George Floyd and the countless before him. If you are unable to Kneel feel free to bow your head down in solidarity. 2pmChant the Uk Names of preventable lives lost- Stephen Lawrence, Mark Duggan, Joy Gardner and Sarah ReedRaise awareness with drivers and passers by encouraging honking of horns. Advisable to write slogans such as: Honk for Justice/Silence is Violence. Open Mic to share: experiences, thoughts, art and anything related to facing discrimination all people of colour face. 2 minutes for each speaker to allow everyone to be heard. Once all have spoken the floor will be open to say more for longer. ( Hoping to get Community Leader Speaker)  2.30pmA Litterpick if any rubbish is made of the area to ensure a clean and peaceful protest. Please bring a bag to put rubbish in. Looking for:Speakers for music https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfi829qwEyeAKt4RMVEcZUiFx5OiQaKkuVolunteers to be stewards of chanting and facilitating social distancingIdeas on how to make it better for everyonePlease Remember:Remain peacefulIF YOU HAVE SYMPTOMS PLEASE DO NOT ATTENDBring protective masks and gloves, and if possible wet-wipes or anti-bacterial gelObserve two-metre social distancing guidelinesPack food and waterBring identification and emergency contact informationWear comfortable shoesBring WaterproofsIn case of arrest, carry essential medicines (e.g. inhalers) on your personWomen on periods are advised to wear pads instead of tampons in case toilet access is restricted by events or arrestLink to photos and videos of last event:https://photos.app.goo.gl/QAzNxHca5yheSwX46https://www.dropbox.com/sh/c68poo1862i912x/AAAeddHFHQ5Ume6YdmRJ6CTya?dl=0

Anil Patel ● 2326d229 Comments

Here is a reminder of the Forum's Code of Conduct:Community ForumCode of ConductRespect OthersKeep it LegalPlay NiceDon't SpamBusiness Use of the ForumTake Responsibility - use your real nameUphold the CodeProtect your PrivacyComplaints/Reporting AbuseAs part of our commitment to making this site a great place to meet and interact with others around our area, you must agree to abide by our Code of Conduct. Your commitment to this Code of Conduct in the forum and electronic mail postings ensures a positive experience for all our members.Respect OthersThis site encourages everyone to treat each other with mutual respect. Do not use the Forum to threaten, harass, stalk, or abuse others participating in the Forum. Refrain from all expressions of bigotry, racism, hatred, or obscenity.The Administrators of this Forum may eject or ban users, as well as remove postings, that in their opinion, violate this Code of Conduct. Serious violations are forwarded to the police and the offending user's ISP.If you show disrespect to others please don't complain when they respond in kind. This Code is here to protect those that adhere to it. If you become involved in an abusive exchange with another user do not expect the moderators to take action on your behalf.I also ask you to look at this information to understand why this is happening across the world:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YCu5B6AMoQ This History of the spread of divisions and racism.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_FE78X-qdY&t=614sA video of unity needed from all including Ethnic Minorities.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-BY9UEewHwHow Studying Privilege Systems Can Strengthen CompassionThank you for reading.Kindest RegardsAnil

Anil Patel ● 2326d

Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't mass gatherings, more than 6 people, banned and made illegal, at the beginning of last week ? If so surely you're not suggesting that people break the law ?

Loraine Pemberton ● 2326d

https://www.daslaw.co.uk/blog/right-to-peaceful-protestHere is some information regarding your valid concern. However i feel you didn't read the full post or if you did you might not have noticed the part that mentions: Social Distancing. Going to the shops can be considered a mass gathering but with people being respectful we can keep safe via socially distancing. I urge you to look at the information in the link above.Have a wonderful weekend everyone. I am going to come and check back in a few days.If you have a burning question you wish me to answer and especially if it is personal i suggest you text me via phone: 077935677964 Kindest RegardsAnil

Anil Patel ● 2326d

"Observe two-metre social distancing guidelines". What happens when these pointless guidelines are ignored, either deliberately or accidentally?

Brian Coyle ● 2326d

From our Chiswick Catholic parish newsletter: "The demonstrations and protests of these days have been calls for justice and heart wrenching expressions of deep emotional pain from which we cannot turn away. They call us to affirm the inestimable value of every person’s life. They call us to redouble our commitment to foster respect and justice for all people. They call us to uphold and defend the truth that Black Lives Matter." This message resonates with me and my fellow parishioners. I'm proud I've seen a number of them at the local demonstration in Chiswick last weekend.

Anna Spiteri ● 2326d

"Observe two-metre social distancing guidelines guyd That will be one metre by Friday. Which means social distancing is basically at an end. Get ready for the pubs guys and girls,wont be long now

Julian Pavey ● 2326d

The guideline is 3m not 2m if you are raising your voice by singing, shouting etc.Just common sense if you think about it. I hope this is understood and respected.

Adrian Irving ● 2326d

Germany R rate is now 1.7 so it’s only a matter of time here and any ‘events’ are aiding the increase of R

Jayne Thorburn ● 2326d

I’ll be respecting people by staying at home .  Chanting will definitely come under the 3m rule.  Where is the respect of these protestors for the lives and safety of those around them.  Sorry seems hypocritical to me. Still I hope those attending wear their nappies , that’s going to get pretty smelly after a few hours.  I hope they make some earth shattering changes to warrant this 😔

Maggie Dodge ● 2326d

I wholeheartedly respect the democratic right to peacefully protest against discrimination and any other inequalities, however I also respect the Law.  Currently the Law is that no meetings above 6 people can take place and that should be observed.

Loraine Pemberton ● 2326d

Then, "if it's only a matter of time here", why are you so gung-ho about opening shops and getting children back to school?

Robert Fish ● 2326d

I am in favour of schools and shops opening so long as it is done safely. I am totally against thousands flocking to beaches, protests disguised as events, any form of mass gatherings. Of course anything opening has to be done with some form of social distancing, hand hygiene, face masks etc.

Jayne Thorburn ● 2326d

Yes, unfortunately Anil is advocating again that people break the law. The R rate is already rising in London to danger levels again, not surprisingly with the number of recent gatherings and people taking the underground, especially as many don't seem to be wearing masks.  And of course the government will be blamed for not doing enough.

Claire Moran ● 2326d

When will it be judged (i.e. by what specific date) that the BLM message will have finally got through and that these particular protests will not be further required each weekend? Oldies and the vulnerable need to know so that they can gear themselves up to more dreary self-lockdowning once more barely before being let out of their homes even while, really, the first wave hasn't ended. It's obvious more waves of the pandemic (or a continuation of the first wave) is or are already socially simmering in the environment. With gatherings that have ignored social distancing from the start, despite blaming 'short-sighted Dominic'.

Bobbie Carnegie ● 2326d

Claire the really sad thing it that kids need to go back to school for their own futures and kids from deprived areas of all races will suffer more. The so call adults who are not behaving decently by following the rules are putting kids future at risk. That applies to all adults whether not wearing face masks in public transport, mass gatherings, flocking to beaches, etc. Just selfish behaviour......

Jayne Thorburn ● 2326d

I agree, Jayne. The longer the current situation goes on, and particularly if we are locked down again in another wave, which is entirely possible, will affect every single person both in the short term and for many years to come, physically, mentally and financially.

Claire Moran ● 2326d

Why can't this man hold his gatherings where he actually lives instead of in the middle of Chiswick?  Living here for over 40 years, Chiswick seems a pretty well integrated mix of peoples from all over the World and personally I've never once been aware of any racial discrimination.  Far more likely to be discrimination between rowdy, rude teenagers and older people traveling on buses!

Jennifer Selig ● 2325d

Hi Anil please can you explain to me why you think it is ok to break the law and arrange a gathering of more than 6 people.  I am not against protests of any kind as I believe in free speech but we are in the middle of a worldwide pandemic . When your next protest starts I will have been shielding for 100 days. I am against all large gatherings wether it's the beach, park , protests etc . I think everybody who attends is far to complacent how dangerous this virus is a lot of attendees may have the virus and not know it thus a risk of spreading and will be impossible to track and trace . Please kindly answer my concerns  . The virus is the biggest and most important thing to tackle at the moment

Renate Stroud ● 2325d

Don’t waste your time guys, and don’t give this man the oxygen he is seeking. We had this discussion over the past two weeks, and he just won’t listen. He refuses to accept any other point of view. He’s too much of a narcissistic coward to answer your questions. Forget him. And just in case anyone wants to pounce on me, I agree that black ( and anyone’s) lives matter.

Richard Kay ● 2325d

Anil very kindly reminded us all of the Code of Conduct for this Forum. One part of the code is Keep it Legal. I may stand corrected, but I believe that mass gatherings are not legal. The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) (Amendment) (No.3) Regulations 2020. This new law bans mass gatherings in London in a fight to stop the spread of the deadly virus.”I will check my facts tomorrow. If I’m correct then I will alert the appropriate authorities.

Richard Kay ● 2325d

You are right. It is not legal, and therefore, if this forum were consistent (which it isn't) his posts advocating these gatherings would be banned.

Claire Moran ● 2325d

It’s illegal - end of

Mark Perry ● 2325d

I need to check my facts. If Someone on this Forum is advocating or encouraging an illegal act, then I will file a formal complaint with the police. It’s then for them to decide.

Richard Kay ● 2325d

The more people who make a complaint the more likely the Police will listen and take actionturnhamgreen.snt@met.police.uk

Loraine Pemberton ● 2325d

Thanks Lorraine. I think it’s time to fight back. Anil has had his moment. And under normal circumstances, I would support his right to protest and support his cause in some aspects. But we’re not in normal circumstances.So, if anyone believes that the law is being broken here, please register with the police.I’ve had enough debate on this, time for action.

Richard Kay ● 2325d

This might help:-  https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/dyz7bv/uk-government-protest-ban-explained

Claire Moran ● 2325d

Good luck with your snitching. The police will probably tell you they have better things to do with their time than arrest peaceful protesters, particularly since the numbers are likely to be small and, by all accounts, social distancing was well observed and masks were worn at last weekend's demo. Why are you not more exercised by people who enter shops without a mask? And if your answer is that the one activity is illegal, the other not, how do you answer the charge that failing to use a mask in a shop is infinitely more prejudicial to public health than a well-behaved open-air demonstration?

Robert Fish ● 2325d

If you are referring to me, Robert, upholding the law which is trying to prevent more deaths from this terrible disease is not 'snitching'.  And I am very pro people wearing a mask. You silly, silly man.

Claire Moran ● 2325d

I'm  not referring to you, but anyway thanks for the compliment!

Robert Fish ● 2325d

Claire, he wasn’t referring to you, so I’ll take this one. Fish, I am very concerned about folk not wearing masks, but that is not the subject of this thread. Why don’t you have the balls to initiate your own thread on this, father than floating up after dark to criticise others. You refer to “the charge”. Yes, I believe that wearing masks in shops should be compulsory. Fish, start your own thread on this if it means a lot to you. I’ll support it. But please, refrain from leaping in with no real contribution except to trash me zzzzzzzzzzz

Richard Kay ● 2325d

Your views deserve trashing. Anil's principled demo last week (which I for one would never have attended) has resulted in a quite unjustifiable degree of opprobrium from you and several others. And, as I recall, you were one of the people complaining about the witch hunt against Dominic Cummings. Double standards!

Robert Fish ● 2325d

My views “deserve trashing”. I  respect your view. But I don’t agree. And I will stand by  my view Open to discuss, but Fish you don’t trash, you just bleat. No r eat substance. “ a quite unjustifiable genre of opprobrium (sp) . The law is the law. If you saw someone breaking the law by putting another’s life at risk and reported it to The police,would you consider yourself a “snitch”? Personally, I’d support you..

Richard Kay ● 2325d

'Principled'? Since when was breaking the law 'principled'?  Do you really think the government has drawn up these laws which are crippling our economy just for fun?  People have gone mad.

Claire Moran ● 2325d

Make up your mind — first you accuse me of trashing, then you do a Johnsonian u-turn.. Anyway, let's just say we agree to differ, and good night.

Robert Fish ● 2325d

Phew! Again Fish, hit and run.

Richard Kay ● 2325d

The R figure is thought to be between 0.8 and 1.0 in the Midlands, the highest of any region in the UK, and only slightly lower in London and the North West, where estimates put it in the range of 0.7 and 1.0.Bearing the above in mind, is it really wise to allow mass meetings at this time ? Surely the physical protest meetings can wait until it's safe to have them, but in the interim much can be done using social media.

Loraine Pemberton ● 2325d

Just to be very clear Fish, the word trashing was yours. Read your posting. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Richard Kay ● 2325d

I'm almost in agreement with what you say about mass meetings, Loraine. The only point I would make is that the demonstration last weekend was hardly a mass meeting, and social distancing was well observed and face coverings were worn, I find it difficult to agree with the idea that it put others' lives at risk. And I'm sure the police would feel it wouldn't warrant any intervention on their part if RK followed through on his threat to make a complaint.

Robert Fish ● 2325d

Not clear at all! You posted this first: "But please, refrain from leaping in with no real contribution except to trash me"

Robert Fish ● 2325d

Fair point Fish, so my apologies.

Richard Kay ● 2325d

It’s not a threat Fish.

Richard Kay ● 2325d

Wonder if a 'socially distanced meeting' on TG to support 'white lives matter' in the wake of the Reading killings by a Libyan refugee together with the horrors of many other killings by 'the black community' of white (and other) people in recent years would be supported by Mr Fish?  If not, why not?

Claire Moran ● 2325d

Right. This thread was started by Anil. Come out Anil, argue your case. Answer the questions folk have asked. And please don’t try to “ educate” us. That’s rather patronising. C’mon Anil, show yourself!

Richard Kay ● 2325d

Now we get to the nub of it!

Robert Fish ● 2325d

Your point being, Fish?

Richard Kay ● 2325d

How many people attended last Sunday's meeting, I was told it was between 100 and 180, not everyone wore masks. If the next planned protest meeting goes ahead it maybe many more people will attend, is it really worth potentially spreading this deadly virus ?

Loraine Pemberton ● 2325d

The many thousands who have lost family members and friends, families who can't feed or house themselves and their kids because of all this would have one answer, whatever their colour, race and religion.  No.

Claire Moran ● 2325d

So exactly what is the nub, Robert, in your opinion?  White people commit crimes and there are protests but black people commit crimes and we should smile indulgently when people, most of whom were locked up for weeks/months decide to spend a few hours in a Reading park in the sunshine are slaughtered by a Libyan asylum seeker with no protest allowed?

Claire Moran ● 2325d

Ok, here's the nub: I wouldn't go so far as to accuse you of overt racism, but you certainly display subconscious prejudice in your refusal to see that there is a problem of racism in this country. Your crass equivalence between protests against the murder of white people by blacks and the murder of black people by whites shows you are massively unaware of the scale of the problem. There would be no need for a protest against the Reading murders. They would be condemned by most people, except by a small proportion of Islamist extremists. On the other hand, many white people (including you, it seems) are blind to the problems faced by blacks. Someone has to draw attention to the elephant in the room. Perhaps now is not the right time for demonstrations, but the readiness of people to pillory Anil makes me suspicious about their true underlying motives.

Robert Fish ● 2325d

Nazi invaders of European countries in the 1940s found that a small proportion of the native population was sympathetic to their ideas and was willing to assist them by informing and collaborating. Who would they approach around here for help?

Edward Seaton ● 2325d

Total and utter codswallop from Fish and Seaton. As someone who apparently operates in the medical profession, Seaton, as a matter of interest, do you support people breaking the law intended to save lives and reduce hospital admissions? Or, as you operate in the private sector, perhaps you don't give a damn?

Claire Moran ● 2325d

Seation. Thanks for your informative and constructive contribution to this debate. We’re all so much enlightened.

Richard Kay ● 2325d

The police were there so would've taken action if they'd thought something was amiss. As for prosecution ,it is the CPS who make that decision: it is them,not the police who uphold the law.

Ben Gemmingen ● 2325d

Something was amiss.  It was illegal. The police simply can't cope with arresting all the lawbreakers.  That doesn't make it right, or stop the virus spreading.

Claire Moran ● 2325d

Whomever Ben.But I think you’re wrong about the CPS. I’ll do my research tomorrow, as I said earlier, and report to the proper authorities.

Richard Kay ● 2325d

It was no different to a long queue at Sainsbury's.

Ben Gemmingen ● 2325d

Make a complaint to the police directly who'll give you a CAD reference and investigate further but bear in mind they were there and it was all recorded.

Ben Gemmingen ● 2325d

One is illegal. The other isn't.

Claire Moran ● 2325d

Tell that to the police who were there.Make a formal complaint if you're so vexed about it.

Ben Gemmingen ● 2325d

Ben, Claire and I I have both pointed out the crucial flaw in your arguement. Legal vs not legal.

Richard Kay ● 2325d

Ben, I will.

Richard Kay ● 2325d

Well don't moan about it and expect other people to act,do something yourselves.The police thought it was fine.If you don't agree with their actions or lack of them,make a formal complaint ,simple.

Ben Gemmingen ● 2325d

As I’ve just said Ben, I will.

Richard Kay ● 2325d

Wonder why we see the - absolutely appalling - killing of George Floyd over and over but there is a blanket ban on any views of what happened in a Reading park despite lots of video footage?

Claire Moran ● 2325d

This will be interesting to hear about.You're going to complain about roughly ten cops who eitherdrove or walked by who were friendly,chatted to the protestors and passers by and who saw no reason to arrest anyone or disperse them.Good luck with that lol !

Ben Gemmingen ● 2325d

Just putting this out there. Hundreds of other articles in the media including social media along the same lines. https://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/rita-panahi/blm-are-radical-neomarxists/news-story/8ed22f8b57042417bf23745dba70ad7c

Claire Moran ● 2325d

Much of it is behind paywalls, including a recent article in the Telegraph which I don't subscribe to. Good luck to you if you support this - while of course I am anti-racism (and anti-sexism and anti cruelty to animals) I do think you need to be careful about the movements you support:- BLM happily self-identifies as a neo-Marxist movement with various far left objectives, including defunding the police (an evolution of the Panther position of public open-carry to control the police), to dismantling capitalism and the patriarchal system, disrupting the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure, seeking reparations from slavery to redistribute wealth and via various offshoot appeals, to raise money to bail black prisoners awaiting trial. https://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/rita-panahi/blm-are-radical-neomarxists/news-story/8ed22f8b57042417bf23745dba70ad7c

Claire Moran ● 2325d

Is this directed to me ?You know nothing about me whereas I know far too much about you.

Ben Gemmingen ● 2325d

Err, no you don't, Ben, you are as clueless about me as about everything else you write on here.

Claire Moran ● 2325d

Your narcissism is entertaining I'll give you that lol !

Ben Gemmingen ● 2325d

Your reply confirms the idiot you are.

Claire Moran ● 2325d

All on here supporting the BLM movement (as opposed to the concept which everyone should and I think do support)  happy with this (just one analysis of this 'movement' among hundreds along the same lines including the Telegrah (don't subscribe so can't see it):-BLM happily self-identifies as a neo-Marxist movement with various far left objectives, including defunding the police (an evolution of the Panther position of public open-carry to control the police), to dismantling capitalism and the patriarchal system, disrupting the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure, seeking reparations from slavery to redistribute wealth and via various offshoot appeals, to raise money to bail black prisoners awaiting trial. https://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/rita-panahi/blm-are-radical-neomarxists/news-story/8ed22f8b57042417bf23745dba70ad7c

Claire Moran ● 2325d

You care about what people think of you hence your monotonous self-aggrandising posts.No one's that interested.You lack self-awareness.I find it amusing so keep up the good work :-)No doubt you'll reply because you always have to have the last word..it's so predictable.

Ben Gemmingen ● 2325d

Ben I don't find this is something to laugh about there is a very serious risk of a second spike everybody who attends is totally irresponsible . Anil says don't attend if you have symptoms but the virus can be spread when you have no symptoms.

Renate Stroud ● 2325d

If that was aimed at me, Ben, I don't care what fools like you think about anything.  You seem to find everything amusing, even people dying - I would refer you to Renate Stroud's post above. It is sad that people like you really don't care about anything, even people who are receiving treatment for cancer.

Claire Moran ● 2325d

“IF YOU HAVE SYMPTONS PLEASE DO NOT ATTEND.”What does that tell me about the person that wrote it?It tells me that he has no real understanding how deadly this virus really is. Sadly he is far from alone.In effect the statement says if you have a persistent cough, fever, difficulty breathing and are worried sick that you may have caught  a life threatening virus “please do not attend”Is this his fault? Well yes partly, he should have educated himself what this virus can do but the Government are also to blame as should have made the message very much stronger, hitting home hard what the reality is from the very  start.Many of you will remember the AIDS campaign in the 80’s. Wow, did that scare the b’jesus out of us.  People were frightened to catch it from a loo seat for goodness sake! As it turned out that was way over the top.The message now and has been  weak, confused and sanitised to such an extent that you get statements like the one above treating the virus as if it were a bad cold.If there is a widespread second wave we need a campaign along the lines of showing a picture of 50 thousand coffins and the names of the dead read out on a daily basis so people understand what they are faced with. If this had been done from the start I am convinced we would be in a much better place now.

Adrian Irving ● 2325d

"I am in favour of schools and shops opening so long as it is done safely."It can't be done. Keep them closed until we have a vaccination!

Steve Taylor ● 2325d

Having a demonstration like this is pathetic. The whole world has got the message that Black Lives Matter.  All decent people will agree with this. What fools need to gather in groups in public spaces, and risk spreading the virus, to listen to speeches and chat amongst themselves about something which is universally already accepted.  Of course there may be a handful of scum who don't believe that Black Lives Matter but they will not go to the demonstration unless it is to cause trouble - so why invite such a situation and risk lives.  Surely in the UK, with our diverse and liberal population, if you still have to educate people into realising that Black Lives Matter, there is something radically wrong with our education system. There will always be a few rogue cops (as in the Floyd case) but when they are caught they are dealt with severely. I find it actually quite insulting that anyone feels the need to 'convince' the good people of London that Black Lives Matter. We know, and we care, so stop encouraging the spread of disease!!  

Steve Taylor ● 2325d

   Agreed, or at least until the government has a proper safety plan. It can't be left to individual shops or schools to make a risk assessment and put appropriate safety measures in place. And the government needs to stop anticipating the next phase of relaxation — it gives all the wrong signals to people. Why are we already hearing about reopening of pubs?

Robert Fish ● 2325d

I fear that, collectively, 'the good people of London' haven't fully got the message, in so far as most statistics show that our BAME residents are disadvantaged and discriminated against in many areas of their daily life.  The reasons for this and the mechanisms whereby it occurs still need to be more widely understood and acted upon.  I think this will take more than a gathering on Turnham Green.

Peter Evans ● 2325d

Rosa Parks broke the law. Guessing you think she was in the wrong too?

Anna Spiteri ● 2324d

I don't know anyone who disagrees with the slogan Black Lives Matter - All lives matter.   

Jennifer Selig ● 2324d

Do know if I am reading the post correctly, but there is another peaceful protest meeting in Brentford at the same time.https://www.facebook.com/events/577516463202681/Sunday at 1:30 PM – 5:30 PM13–22°C Partly CloudyBrentford MarketMarket Place, TW8 8AH Brentford https://www.facebook.com/events/565560824145584/Sunday, June 28, 2020 at 1:30 PM – 5:30 PMNext Week: 13–22°C Partly CloudyChrist Church W4Town Hall Avenue, Chiswick, W4 5DT Although I could have my wrong glass on when I saw it

Bernard Allen ● 2324d

>>All lives matter<

Gordon McDonald ● 2324d

Dear Bernard Allen,You are correct about both they are being organised in synchronisation. To avoid people having to travel to show their solidarity. Also hoping to try and get the protest live streamed for those shielding and isolating. The right to protest is lawful even under these new times, even more so when the crowd are law abiding and following strict social distancing guidelines. This is easy to achieve when you have like minded compassionate people organising to ensure everyone's safety and rights to equal and fair treatment. Which is what Black Lives Matter means. All lives can not matter until Black Lives Matter. This may confuse or enrage people so here is some further reading and videos to help with the emotions you might be feeling: https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/life/a32745051/what-black-lives-matter-means/Another terminology that might be useful in this conversation is Intersectionality: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmOVGsvYQeQI did post the first link in the last thread and i do hope Richard and Claire are open minded and willing to read more about the subject matter before expressing their views on racism. You both seem to be very vocal on this topic and i am worried about your well being. Be assured i am in contact with the police myself in organising this, i built a good rapport with the officer and community police officer last time. The CAD number for the protest is: CAD 2614/14JUN20  i have filed a freedom of information request to know in more detail the report. I will be glad to have the police there again to ensure hatred from the public and people who align with tabloids and EDL ideology are dealt with professionally.Have a wonderful evening everyone. I kindly ask you do not slur my name and express ill mannered remarks about me. I was raised to be polite and quite proud of my British Manners. What i have read so far is a lot of missinformtaion, personal attacks and repetition. If you take an issue with me personally you have the option to private message me, i look forward to seeing the well mannered responses in the next few days.

Anil Patel ● 2324d

Anil, sadly you have missed the point. We are not expressing our views on racism.  We are expressing our views on the selfishness of people spreading the coronavirus. I think you know that as you are clearly not stupid but you want to twist everything to suit your agenda.  Please post chapter and verse that says your gathering is legal.  I have already posted a link to say it is not.

Claire Moran ● 2324d

Anil the goverment website under 1.5 clearly states it's a criminal offence to meet in groups of over 6 and also to incite others to break the law by arranging a gathering. Simple to follow one would have thought but clearly you don't care for the shielding / vulnerable.  It's no good saying you are going to live stream it . It's the fact that healthy people can carry the virus without realising and spread. How are you going to track and trace , are you taking a register of those attending. Are you going to reply to me this time as you have so far ignored my comments on this post and your last protest

Renate Stroud ● 2324d

Dear Mr PatelFirstly, I absolutely support the right to protest against racism, discrimination, inequalities and the right of free speech.However during these difficult and dangerous times I cannot support these BLM meetings because they have the potential to spread Covid-19. Mercifully, LB Hounslow has had a comparatively low infection and death rate and we all need to play our part in keeping it that way. You are clearly aware of the law regarding mass meetings to help stop the spread of Covid-19 yet you continue to organise them - why ? Are some lives more important than others to you ? To me, and I believe others who have posted on your threads and across LB Hounslow's diverse multi-cultural society ALL Lives Matter, or dont you think so ?Therefore, I respectfully and politely ask you to postpone the meetings you have organised for Sunday 28th June, until it is safe to do so and the ban on Mass Meetings has been lifted.Kind regards Loraine Pemberton

Loraine Pemberton ● 2324d

Anil,You have referred to Black Lives Matter in your subject heading - I am therefore assuming that you are linked with or support this organisation.Their website makes it clear that they have objectives beyond seeking justice for all people regardless of race, for example:"We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable."Do you agree with disrupting the "Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement"?Do you agree with the activities mentioned on their GoFundMe page?:"Developing and delivering training, police monitoring and strategies for the abolition of police"https://uk.gofundme.com/f/ukblm-fund

Andy Riley ● 2324d

Anil please answer that......Anil you clearly are choosing to ignore the dangers of Covid, that’s what this thread is all about not racism. Perhaps the 42K plus people who have died in the UK and the 450K worldwide DON’T MATTER to you, everyone who has contributed to this thread believe it does. That’s why Chiswick people do not want any large gatherings of any description.

Jayne Thorburn ● 2324d

Dear Mr PatelFirstly, I absolutely support the right to protest against racism, discrimination, inequalities and the right of free speech.However during these difficult and dangerous times I cannot support these BLM meetings because they have the potential to spread Covid-19. Mercifully, LB Hounslow has had a comparatively low infection and death rate and we all need to play our part in keeping it that way. You are clearly aware of the law regarding mass meetings to help stop the spread of Covid-19 yet you continue to organise them - why ? Are some lives more important than others to you ? To me, and I believe others who have posted on your threads and across LB Hounslow's diverse multi-cultural society ALL Lives Matter, or dont you think so ?Therefore, I respectfully and politely ask you to postpone the meetings you have organised for Sunday 28th June, until it is safe to do so and the ban on Mass Meetings has been lifted.Kind regards Loraine Pemberton

Loraine Pemberton ● 2324d

Apologies I don't mean to post again

Loraine Pemberton ● 2324d

Except in the shops where social distancing observance is often minimal or practically non existent at times, or on the parks where you can see plenty of groups of more than 6 people not conforming to social distancing either. Bur hey,what many of those attending BLM are trying to achieve isn’t going to directly improve the lot of Chiswick residents, so why don’t you take your protest that’s going to contribute less to the spread of Covid than all the other activities going on around you somewhere else ...

Andrew Jones ● 2324d

The leader of the local council Conservative group Joanna Biddolph and councillor Ron Mushiso also attended the BLM demonstration in Chiswick. I’ve seen the video. Good for them.

Edward Seaton ● 2324d

Edward,you've forgotten, members of the Conservative party and chums are special.They have been given Get of Jail Free Cards by the PM and the Cabinet if they are just "following their instincts".

Adrian Irving ● 2324d

Anil,You wrote:"This is a family - friendly peaceful protest"Though I assume you will not be welcoming "Western-prescribed nuclear" families

Andy Riley ● 2324d

Loraine, I fully support your Open Letter.

Richard Kay ● 2324d

Me too!

Pippa Meldrum ● 2324d

‘All lives can not matter until Black Lives Matter’: The link to 'Intersectionality' Mr Anil pointed to is kinda obvious in its reminder that we all have individual and specific needs, requirements, wants pertinent to our race, gender, age or other demographic specificity. And, that overlapping of needs, requirements, wants, etc. may be shared among the different races, genders, ages or demographic specificities in varied degrees. E.g. As a white person I'm vulnerable, shielded and receiving weekly food parcels. So is my black neighbour also vulnerable, shielded and receiving weekly food parcels. We learn of late black people are more likely to succumb to 'the virus' because of socio-economic reasons than white people. In this one apparent life or death truth then Mr Anil's announcement I had not learned of before that has caused me to balk has a ring of truth. Whether this one truth then allows for BLM protests to continually override intersectionalities of others because the intersectionality of BLM people are more pressing raises interesting argument.     

Bobbie Carnegie ● 2324d

I agree with Loraine's letter too

Claire Moran ● 2324d

I believe 99.9% of the population agree that of course black lives matter, so it is ironic that by organising these kinds of events black people are likely to be more at risk of dying than white people. If Anil really believes black lives matter (and hopefully that white lives do too) he wouldn't be putting them at risk by organising this kind of event.  It's illegal for a reason - to save lives.

Claire Moran ● 2324d

Totally agree with you Claire , Anil has not had the courtesy once to reply to my concerns . He hasn't got any answers because he knows full well the protest is illegal.

Renate Stroud ● 2324d

Claire,Every time you say black lives matter you follow almost immediately with “white lives matter too”. The BLM movement isn’t saying that black lives are more important than anyone else - they’re fighting for a levelling up of black lives so that they’re equal to everyone else. I’m not commenting on the legality of the protest as a I won’t be attending and that’s my choice. I just want to try and help you understand the movement a little more. Also not sure where you get your 99.9% stat from - could you share a link?

James Carter ● 2324d

Julian Pavey ● 2324d

My reply to the "black lives matter" slogan is Martin Luther King's:"I look to a day when people will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."

Andy Riley ● 2324d

Or discriminated against because of their sex. I'd lay a bet that if John rather than Joanna sends in an identical cv John is still more likely than Joanna in most sectors to get an interview and the job. We are also still a long way from equal pay for equal work between the sexes, and the vast majority of women have a fraction of the pension that men do. Much more needs to be done to stop discrimination and boost equality all round.

Claire Moran ● 2323d

There is much inequality around the world it’s a really complex issue being black does not own this space. Obviously education, housing, parenting to name a few applies to every race and a child’s chances of having a fulfilled future. The adult issues stem from early days but also people taking responsibility and being accountable for their own actions. To highlight one group is actually more destructive than working together for everyone and for the whole of society.

Jayne Thorburn ● 2323d

From what I know of the BLM movement it has never said that it “owns” discrimination, it’s fighting to advance its interests. As other movements are fighting their own. I agree that discrimination takes many forms and I think everyone on this forum is intelligent enough to be able to discuss them separately. All I was trying to point out was that “black lives matter” doesn’t mean that black lives matter more than anyone else.

James Carter ● 2323d

Anil are you still there please reply you started this thread the least you could do is reply to my questions

Renate Stroud ● 2323d

James, there are black and white people being trafficked today.  There are white and Asian people as well as black people living in terrible poverty throughout the world.  Perhaps this article will help explain my point of view:-Perhaps this will help you understand my point of view:- https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/11/black-lives-matter-racism-bristol-colston

Claire Moran ● 2323d

I agree, Jayne, that's why the slogan irritates me.  It boils everything down to one simplistic chant when inequality is a very complex issue. And holding marches that simply spread coronavirus isn't tackling the problem.  See the article I posted a link to above.

Claire Moran ● 2323d

Thanks for sharing Claire,It’s an interested article as the author is saying that “black lives matter” is just a slogan and he actually supports action as we saw in Bristol. From your previous posts I didn’t think you supported direct action during this lockdown but perhaps I‘m mistaken - this is the quote. ““If it had been a black-only crowd, would the statue of notorious slavemaster Edward Colston really have been allowed to topple, let alone be dragged through the streets and dumped in the River Avon?Many British people were upset at what they saw. And I have some sympathy: mob rule is generally a bad thing, and risks getting disastrously out of hand. But what a glorious moment. It’s an image that will last years in the memory, as the moment that people in one English city said the ritual humiliation of black lives was no longer acceptable. You can say “Black Lives Matter” a million times but it will change nothing. This action changed things“

James Carter ● 2323d

I agree with most of the article but not with the optimism of the conclusion.  The destruction of the statue may have changed things but not in the way the author would like to believe.  My feeling from trawling social media on a regular basis is that the racial divide is now getting stronger than ever before - the oppostite (apparently) of what the BLM intend. Many of those committed to anti-discrimination are fed up.  A lot of people have the view, as Bernard above expressed, that this is not the right way to go about things.  Change takes time.  Chanting a slogan is not going to do it.  Women have been marching and chanting for years against the discrimination meted out to them all day every day, year in, year out.  The WASPI women have got nowhere.  People think that Emmeline Pankhurst won women the vote.  She drew dramatic attention to the issue by jumping in front of the King's horse,  but it was the recognition of the heroic contribution that women made to the first world war that actually allowed women over 30 the vote.  And only a few years before were men without much money allowed to vote, don't forget. Being enfranchised of whatever race or sex was the preserve of the rich until compartatively recently.  Personally, I think that those who are actively campaigning to get more equal treatment for black people are going to get nowhere with such a general slogan and marches.There have been many recommendations in recent years on how to do this from government-funded studies.  Predicably, given how vacuous this slogan is, Johnson has been able to kick it into the long grass by dint of commissioning yet another study that will take God knows how long.  What the Black Lives Matter activists (those who are not intent on destroying the nuclear family and the police and letting everyone out of jail that is) should focus on is specific actions that the government could translate into anti black discrimation laws.  Then there is a real objective and real measurement of the outcome within a specified time frame.

Claire Moran ● 2323d

Claire,I was reading you post and agreeing with almost everything you said until you misrepresented what the movement is all about by saying they’re intent on destroying the nuclear family - you either deliberately twist their words or you don’t really know what it’s all about. This is what their stated aim is on family - “We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another”Based on the African proverb. You might disagree with the statement, that’s fair enough.  They also don’t want to let everyone out of prison but you know that as well don’t you - they do want access to justice but perhaps you disagree with that aim as well...

James Carter ● 2323d

Hi, James, I look forward to a clear and proven dissection of this article with evidence as to where you disagree:- https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8441405/The-avowed-aims-British-arm-Black-Lives-Matter.htmland to what happens when you take on the Daily Mail for their misrepresentation - if you can prove it of course. The words about family are vague and woolly - how would that work in Britain?  What does it actually mean?  Please explain.  Please also explain exactly how their views on prison and justice will work in Britain?  Please provide the statement of what they say about that and how you think that could happen here. You also didn't mention their desire to 'defund' the police - please explain how that would work, especially when these people are attacked physically by people who don't agree with their aims - please explain chapter and verse on how that would work? So looking forward to your reply.

Claire Moran ● 2323d

Anil, please answer some of the questions.

Richard Kay ● 2322d

Good Evening, wonderful people of Chiswick forum, it does make me wonder what the conversation would be like if it was in person. Would you be quick to dismiss my friendly smile and wave? I do like hypotheticals and opinions but when it comes to reality we must rely on facts. It is a Fact slavery is bad. It is Fact that people of colour are more likely to die from covid-19. It is a fact that this country like many others suffer from Institutional Racism.You don't have to take my word for it. Seeing as you all have lots of time on your hands i urge you to look at facts around this topic rather than opinions. If you are listening to someone talk be on the look out for the references they use and double check on them yourself.We live in a world of much missinformation and there is a lot out there set to divide our opinions. Facts however do not lie. Humans Lie. Isn't maths beautiful, all i have seen is a lot of repetition and asking on me to answer questions you can as intelligent adults can go and research for yourself. It is almost as if you are used to a nanny state giving you everything and believing what you read at face value or more likely at a value that most agrees with your world view.I do ask you do better and be more thorough in your posting of information, it reflects poorly to cite just one source.incase you missed it some information i have out last time:To check your own unconscious implicit biashttps://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/takeatest.htmlhttps://www.goodhousekeeping.com/life/a32745051/what-black-lives-matter-means/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1islM0ytkE&feature=youtu.beMeaning of intersectionalityhttps://www.ted.com/talks/peggy_mcintosh_how_to_recognize_your_white_privilege_and_use_it_to_fight_inequality?language=enUnderstanding the system of racism/discrimintaion that operates in our society.https://www.google.com/amp/s/ideas.ted.com/why-we-need-to-call-out-casual-racism/amp/The Importance of making sure your voice is heard and valued.https://youtu.be/KPRA4g-3yEkDealing with Microaggresions, really useful if you are unaware of these daily issues people of BAME have to deal with. https://youtu.be/Mv3XmmQOOaoMotivational and the next step from BLMSome new resources for those who were kind and open minded enough to read the information last time:https://www.google.com/amp/s/ideas.ted.com/why-we-need-to-call-out-casual-racism/amp/https://youtu.be/Q95_Z_QMa8sOrganisation fighting climate and social justice togetherhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQo-yYhExw0 The Enduring Myth of Black Criminalityhttps://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/national-international/thousands-of-scientists-go-on-strike-to-protest-systemic-racism-in-stem/2285866/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BeXySOpBssWe are remembering the lives lost at Grenfell with a kneel and 7 minute 20 second silence to remember the 72 lives that were lost. This Tragedy could have been avoided. This video will help you see why Grenfell is important and learn more about Institutional Racism.If you havnt realised by now this protest is all about safety and if you have seen the videos and photos you saw how it was more orderly and safe than a supermarket. Which goes to show what kind of humans turn up to a Black Lives Matter Protest. There will hopefully be a live link to watch from home for all those shielding. When you hear Black Lives Matter what actually enrages you is a phenomena known as White Fragility, it is displayed by anyone of any colour who is trying to defend a privilege system they benefit from. Peggy Mcintosh did a great talk on privilege. Don't you think so? No one mentioned other lives do not matter that is a thought you have had and displays your displeasure that black lives should matter. I look forward to coming back Saturday and seeing if anyone looked up white fragility.I have repeatedly given you my number and open to answering your questions in private, as you all seem to disregard my openness, please refrain from complaining that i am not answering your questions.  To the kind gentleman who raised the point about intersectionality thank you, there are many people within the Black and Asian Ethnic Minorties that have many identities. So for me to say that man is just Black or that man is just white is wrong and by understanding that we can come to see our differences are actually beautiful and when we respect differences we work together better. To the person who brought up sexism add to that the extra identity of being a Black Mother trying to provide for her family. The actual BLM movement was founded by 3 Proud Black Women, you would know this if you looked at the second link i posted.Im not sure why the open nastiness has changed but i am glad your ending your messages with kindness like i have demonstrated from the beginning. Perhaps my goodwill is rubbing off on you? One can hope. I wont be stopping because you asked. Contrary to your beliefs you do not speak for every human living in Chiswick, to suggest you do is to raise your status in society to dictatorship. The right to protest is lawful and the police have been informed by me to ensure the safety of everyone from hatred and discrimination. To keep ignoring the same answers, the truth and facts is to demonstrate ignorance. Take care and keep safe everyone.Kindest RegardsAnil

Anil Patel ● 2322d

Anil under the rules set out by the goverment mass gatherings of over 6 are illegal , under normal circumstances yes of course you have the right to protest you seem to choose to ignore the sick and extremely vulnerable. Many many charities are in serious trouble because they are not allowed to hold any of their much needed events so why should your event be any different to that , wait until after the pandemic you are being totally irresponsible.  Trying to educate us is not the issue it's holding a mass gathering during a pandemic .

Renate Stroud ● 2322d

The BLM issue has received a lot of press coverage so the protests are not necessary to highlight the issue.  The people attending are being selfish And whilst they want everyone to hear their message, they are not listening to others !

Maggie Dodge ● 2322d

Renate and Maggie, agree with you both as do many others. Unfortunately Anil's passive aggressive attitude appears to stop him from taking a sensible, considerate and thoughtful approach to the Covid-19 issue.Also he hasn't had the courtesy to reply to my open letter to him.

Loraine Pemberton ● 2322d

And another thing Anil I am not enraged by white fragility and yes I have looked it up . My only concern is the pandemic and everybody following the rules wether it be the beach park or protests , I haven't stayed in isolation for 99 days for it to be ruined by the extra risk you and many others causing , there is a very real risk of a second spike .

Renate Stroud ● 2322d

Perhaps Anil the self proclaimed educator needs educating himself on the rules of the land but to fair he looks to have tried to organise everything in a decent well organised manner so fair play to him

Paul Fisher ● 2322d

What are people like street party in Brixton which turned into attacking the police that will do nothing for the cause or the virus. Perhaps one of the reasons more BAME people are catching the virus!

Jayne Thorburn ● 2322d

I'm beginning to change my view of Anil having previously backed his sincerity.As far as one can ever tell without actually meeting someone, my impression has shifted from passionate campaigner towards a somewhat shifty, narcissistic manipulator on a bit of a self-promotion trip.I think Loraine was on bang the money with her “passive/aggressive” portrait of the chap – and I congratulate her for finding two perfectly simple words to characterise her perception.I DO believe we have much further to go in Britain to eradicate racism.  Our leading black footballers are particularly clear on this.  There are still huge question marks concerning lack of opportunity among our black population.  Particularly in the powerful and influential job market right across the board, where the lack of black leadership in our nation is an ongoing disgrace.  But also in housing and schooling and life-chances in general.But – and I believe this is a big but – I reckon the vast majority of our white population already knows this and has well got the message.I have a few minor credentials in this area.  In that I've experienced some of the territory.  My mum's sister, Aunt Rosie, married a Windrush Caribbean in the 1950's and I have wonderful black 1st cousins and plenty more very successful black 1st cousins x 1 removed.Rosie led an ugly and disgracefully rotten life in London throughout her marriage.  Outright racism was rife.  Then her husband was lured off by a barmaid and Rose was left to raise a handful of black children as a single mum.  I know the stories all too well.But things have improved in London dramatically.  There's still distance to travel (we know that).  Yet big improvements are made decade on decade and it's quite clear that we're all heading in the right direction at a pace that quickens year on year.  This isn't the hellhole of the southern states of the USA where Floyd George was recently murdered.So yes – I DO passionately believe that Britain should support the ongoing basic aims of the worldwide BAME community.  Until all is visibly equal and our society becomes one regardless of colour or creed.As for Black Lives Matter, I'm not so sure (for  reasons given earlier in this thread).As for Anil's demo on Saturday....  I attended the last one but socially distanced myself and stayed 30 yards clear of the line.  I won't attend this time, not because I'm against what the demo stands for in general terms - but in support of Renate and all those others under the ongoing threat of Covid.For what it's worth, I doubt Anil's particular work in W4 will develop into a medical catastrophe.  But that's not the point.  The point Anil is that it might.  It just might.  As any gathering might.  It's an ongoing possibility.  According to all the sage scientists.    Which makes you, in the view of many, a bit of an obsessive, self-opinionated twerp.PS:- in the wake of Anil, there are a few others on this forum seeking to educate the uninformed.  Nobody has mentioned this yet but one of these educators is clearly a young man.  And young men must be radical or there's no point in them being born.  So that I understand all too well...It's a few of the older buggers on here that I struggle with...

Stuart Kerr ● 2322d

Just wanted to say Stuart thankyou for deciding not to attend and it will be interesting to see how Anil replies to your post ,

Renate Stroud ● 2321d

He won't Renate.And the only subsequent regret I have about my post is that I left out one word.  Which I'll now edit it...Anil, I suspect you are an obsessive, self-opinionated, DANGEROUS twerp... that is all

Stuart Kerr ● 2321d

He hasn't replied to my very courteous 'open letter' to him either, suspect he maybe reassessing his position...

Loraine Pemberton ● 2321d

Anil,At BLM rallies in Central London and other cities recently there has been widespread vandalism against monuments and statues.I invite you to condemn this.

Andy Riley ● 2321d

No, Loraine, he will have fingers over his eyes to filter out the messages from anyone who disagrees with him so anyone who does so is unlikely to get any response.  He is certain he is right and no one will change his mind. Yet he wants everyone else to be 'educated' with a breathtakingly arrogant assumption that he is and most other people are not. It is an attempt to deflect the issue - spreading the virus - onto a different topic - racism.

Claire Moran ● 2321d

In the meantime, I note the editor has basically given this illegal gathering an advert on the front page.

Claire Moran ● 2321d

No message

Loraine Pemberton ● 2321d

I have just been notified by local poster Claire Moran of the headline story on this website concerning this Sunday's demo organised by Anil.I'm tempted already to give this development which I've just carefully read, the profile of a new thread.  But, as a big supporter of CW4.com I'll put that aside for the time being.Basically (and I'm a very basic ex-journalist) this front page story is shit journalism.  There IS a valid story in this.  A story with a major angle that can and should have been identified throughout the thread concerned.  That the majority of Chiswick locals (by far) have objected to this demo for reasons that are clearly been elucidated poster by poster.  I'll not bother to repeat examples - they're littered everywhere.Whatever, any support for this demo is less than tepid (read the thread).More obvious, this is a demo widely condemned by the local community.  Yet nowhere is that opposition indicated on the front page story.Hence this is a sham story. A lousy story.  A story that fails to tell a story.  It's a story that stinks.I'm financially supporting journalism on this website.  Week on week.  But I will not support this sort of idiot journalism.  Journalism that doesn't try or even begin to adhere to basic ethics...I'll think again this time tomorrow.  Meanwhile re-write or (with a heavy heart) I'll re-direct my money to some far worthier cause...

Stuart Kerr ● 2321d

I thought your open letter was a reasonable request that deserves a reply.

Janice Evans ● 2321d

Sean and Tony seem to be loosing control of the company

Bernard Allen ● 2321d

Hope not Bernard..  As a big supporter of this site...  Anyway, this is basic and fundamental - and needs more profile than a sub-headline that's already been obliterated.I'll think again later but will probably kick off a new thread..

Stuart Kerr ● 2321d

StuartI agree with your comments  the front page article is biased and does not reflect the opinions and views of the people on this thread or I suspect the wider Chiswick community.

Loraine Pemberton ● 2321d

I’ve just woken up to read the “report” on these demonstrations by a Forum “journalist” . It reads like an invite to a village fete!  Will there be cakes and a Tombola?  Totally agree with you Stuart, and the Forum editors need to pull their fingers out of their lazy arses and present a balanced summary of opinions.

Richard Kay ● 2321d

Just out of interest have you reported to the police that you think a crime might be taking place?

Andrew OSullivan ● 2321d

What, the handful of swivel-eyed frothing muppets on here speak for the wider Chiswick community? I think the world's moved on while you've been at your keyboards.

John Hall ● 2321d

Your comment would possibly, but only possibly, have a modicum of credence if you had refrained from insulting others who hold different views to yours.

Loraine Pemberton ● 2321d

"It reads like an invite to a village fete!" Or a farmers market!

Jonathan Oppe ● 2321d

"The police were there so would've taken action if they'd thought something was amiss."You are joking aren't you?  The police will run a mile if they see something 'amiss' in these situations. They would be terrified of reprimanding someone and then being accused of being racist. No ways would they take any action at this type of mass gathering of angry people.

Steve Taylor ● 2320d

Why is it so few of my heroes age well? I have always admired Stuart’s wit and disdain for humbuggery so I wept when I saw his post on this thread.The earnest good intentions of a predominately white middle class group  gingerly getting down on one knee to prove how much they love black people might once have been the subject of his humane but biting satire. He would have brought out the absurdity of the situation without being unkind and acknowledging their good intentions. He was one of the forum’s ‘grate riters’.But now we see him exercised about a minor infraction of the law when much more serious breaches are near universal and making common cause with the very people who he used to excoriate with panache.The line of people making this protest will probably shorter than the line queuing up to get into Sainsbury’s across the road and the citizens of Chiswick will largely either view them with amused indifference or regard them as preposterous. What most of them won’t be doing is getting angry about their presence above anything else that is happening in the world at the moment. There is one sort of person who will do this and that their absence of their embarrassing views from the coverage of the event is not an affront to free speech but a mercy. They might not realise it, but it is better for them that as few people as possible know how they think on this matter because it puts a spotlight on a point of view that the overwhelming majority of W4 finds abhorrent. While I am pleased to learn that this site exists because of the financial beneficence of Stuart Kerr, I am shocked and stunned that rather than supporting more coverage of our local culture or the characters that graced our local pubs and one day may grace them again he is promoting an editorial line that the Daily Mail would baulk at.Can I make a personal plea that, whatever fog has penetrated his mind right now, he should instruct his nurse to take away his iPad any time he is in agreement with Clare Moran?

Felicity Caborn ● 2320d

he he...That made me laugh Felicity.  And you know you have my ongoing respect and admiration as a bloody good writer and a fun forummer over he years...I actually don't think it's the heat, in my case.I simply found myself in big sympathy with the likes of Renate, whose earlier posts moved me to tears...I'd also spent the best part of the past two weeks organising and promoting a petition to have a statue of "The Unknown Slave" permanently occupy the fourth plinth in Trafalgar Square.  I'm well aware of the issues and the territory.Didn't much care for your penultimate para btw.  You're better than that crap...Kiss and make up?x

Stuart Kerr ● 2320d

Of course Stuart. Very happy to give you the benefit of the doubt but you do seem to have fallen into rather dubious company. Walk down Chiswick High Road right now and ponder the myriad ways in which individuals, companies and officialdom compromise the effort to restrict the spread of the virus. Then consider why some may look askance at your passionate intensity on the issue of a few score people making a protest.

Felicity Caborn ● 2320d

I think if Anil had replied and put people's minds at rest it may have help, asIt is he may have lost support which would be a shame.

Janice Evans ● 2320d

Yup - you lovely thing...Except two mega-minor details..I don't think I've gone anywhere.  Certainly not into the "dubious company" you insinuate.  Fact is, like as not, ask any of said company (you know their names) what they think of Stu and they'll be queuing up to tell how deeply and passionately they hate and loathe me.....But that's irrelevant nonsense.Thing is, I'm not quite as stupid as I look.  Yes, I can see what loads of people are brilliantly and creatively doing to restrict the spread of Covid.However, my "passionate intensity" was (and remains in part) on behalf of those of us who are facing "life or death" issues.Good debate this between Flick and Stu..  Might well ring Bob and get him aboard....Better than yer average forum bollox flapping..Cheers babe.. xx

Stuart Kerr ● 2320d

No surprise really.  The signs have been there for a long time.  My suspicions were first raised on his Viva Hate thread, I mean album.

Alastair Banton ● 2320d

I suspect Anil long since came to the conclusion that engaging with individuals on here was a waste of time, and only likely to perpetuate the hostility of resentful white fragility. There's no way you'd find me "taking a knee" with him, but I suspect that a lot of people are distinctly unimpressed by the barrage of spurious objections on legal and public health grounds which he has received. One has to question the hypocrisy of people who pursue this campaign against Anil on the one hand and on the other urge opening up of the economy when it is clearly unsafe, defend the government's appalling record on public safety and complain about a witch hunt against Dominic Cummings.

Robert Fish ● 2320d

Felicity, if ever I find myself in agreement with your good self, I will know I have made a terrible mistake and will instantly change my mind. I think it's very unlikely, however.

Claire Moran ● 2320d

Who exactly is in that intersection, Robert?  Fascinated that you seem to know all the people who have these beliefs which, according to you, are contradictory?  Could you please name them, with evidence?  And what on earth is 'the hostility of resentful white fragility?' Sounds like a phrase straight out of the guilt-ridden Independent or the Guardian. And why, if your sympathies are with him, would you not 'take a knee?'

Claire Moran ● 2320d

They know who they are, and you must know who they are, given your frequent dropping in on this forum. As to why I wouldn't take a knee, although I think the protest is likely to be less risky than the average trip to the supermarket, I'm ultra-cautious. Moreover, I wonder how much it will achieve. Those who refuse to acknowledge the problem of racism in our society and are clearly offended by the idea of giving special consideration to BAME people are unlikely to see the light as a result of a small, relatively insignificant, protest.

Robert Fish ● 2320d

Well, I don't know who they are so look forward to you telling us. All the reasons you cite here are the reasons why I, and many others, think this is not the right time for ANY demonstrations.  So I don't know why you are critcising those who agree with you. I am enraged about the cruelties and injusticies that happen in the world, but all the causes I spend a lot of time and money supporting, apart from this one, are not holding any gatherings of any sort until it is safe to do so.

Claire Moran ● 2320d

I find it sad that people don't understand the gravity of this disease. Maybe some people just don't have the emotional intelligence to understand the risks unless they lose someone close to it or are suffering like Renate.  That is such a shame. Felicity, as always, we disagree.  I find your lack of empathy generally always puts me at odds with you.

Claire Moran ● 2320d

Who is this generic person? I've tried Googling him and (s)he comes up with several identities and thousands of identities.Can someone illucidate for me, please?

Jeffrey Cope ● 2320d

Yes, I do hold different views to the 'I'm not racist but...' outraged of Chiswick

John Hall ● 2320d

I can verify that Anil was on a ZOOM I was party to only two days and HE is indeed real. I had never before seen him.Here's an idea - if you want to check him out, why not go along to the demonstration (socially-distanced of course).

Anne England ● 2320d

Well said Claire. And, Fish, do you EVER make a costructive well argued point of your own volition? Or do you just keep rising from the depths of your fetid pond after dark to Knock others.

Richard Kay ● 2320d

Anne, I have no doubt the patronising Anil is a real person. But he listens to no one. He responds to no one. He’s like the thief in the night. He tries to educate us. He incites illegal activity. He believes his message is the only message. He’s a passionate believer in his own view, intolerant of other views. And he will not answer one simple question. “ why do you think You can encourage people to break the law, potentially spreading a deadly disease, to further your beliefs.”?

Richard Kay ● 2320d

A thoroughly childish response. But you were more perceptive than Claire — you recognised yourself in my criticism of hypocrisy. By the way, how did you get on with reporting Anil to the police?

Robert Fish ● 2320d

I agree Fish. I was a bit harsh so my apologies. But hyprocisy? When have I ever declared I was in favour of a quick release of lockdown to support the economy. Never. I think you may be confused on this particular charge.

Richard Kay ● 2320d

And to answer your question, all complaints to the police are regarded as confidential. I respect that for obvious reasons. So should you.

Richard Kay ● 2320d

Err, no Robert, a mature response to your very silly post.  And no, I am no hypocrite, I am, it seems unlike you, able to distinguish between various belief and moral codes instead of clumsily and stupidly lumping them all under one umbrella.  These are complex and subtle issues, which are clearly not your strong point.  I have never said I would report anything to the police although I do know people who have. Anil according to his post has their blessing.  I doubt it. See my post on the other recent thread about a little cheerful story from the WH0 that millions might die from September.  Robert, I think you are very confused. And if you are going to go to the event tomorrow, I hope you will quarantine, along with everyone else who goes there, for at least 14 days.

Claire Moran ● 2320d

It's the CPS who decide whether an offence has been committed and even if one has been, whether it's in the public interest to prosecute.Seeing as the police were there ,it's highly unlikely any action will be taken.

Ben Gemmingen ● 2320d

Claire, Fish was responding to me. But you’re right in your interpretof his views ........

Richard Kay ● 2320d

Claire, why so touchy? You're the one who is confused. I accused you neither of hypocrisy nor of reporting anyone  to the police. My reply was to RK.

Robert Fish ● 2320d

But you accused me of hypocrisy Fish. Please substantiate that view.

Richard Kay ● 2320d

Apology accepted. If I've misrepresented your stand on release from lockdown, then it's my turn to apologise. But I'm quite clear about your eagerness to move on from discussion of Cummings's illegality, in complete contrast to your wishing to call down the law on Anil.

Robert Fish ● 2320d

I've already addressed that question.

Robert Fish ● 2320d

Thanks Robert. But I think Cummings was a long time ago. I can’t accept the arguement that because wrong Dom erred, it clears the way for all abuse of the rules. I repeat, again, I support the basic tenets that institutionalised racism s is wrong, But this is not the time for any gathering. But I do think Anil is an offensive, self publicising, naive twit who seems to have no consideration for th the views of others. He patronises us by trying to educate. As I said in a post many weeks ago, I supported racial right through RAR concerts. NF were beating the shit out of people.Why can’t he just answer the very valid questions - or is he just a voice. C’com, Anil, it’s a very simple question.

Richard Kay ● 2320d

You have. I think the threads have got a bit entwined.

Richard Kay ● 2320d

Sorry to bang on about this one but I'm no further forward with my enquiry.Ms. England seems content that AP exits because a person appeared on a Zoom conference under that name. I'm afraid others have not helped in answering my question.To Google AP results in at least five photographs and as I said previously thousands of entries.Is AP a singular person? Is he a local resident? Is he an agent provocateur? In short does he exist as a singular person.Some have said AP will not answer questions. This casts doubt into my mind and I certainly do not intend to attend meetings until I can verify who "Anil Patel" is.

Jeffrey Cope ● 2320d

Jeffrey,On previous posts Anil has given his mobile number, have you tried calling him? That’s if your online stalking has failed to give you the information you wanted. He’s also provided a police reference number so presumably they have his contact details - maybe give them a call.

James Carter ● 2320d

I seem to have missed the posts of outrage at people sunning themselves on the south coast beaches packed like sardines. And yet  I note that a well organised and socially distanced (as vids and pic evidence) anti racsim event is what is railing many people.

Matthew Swain ● 2320d

"I'm not racist but... outraged of Chiswick"I don't recall anyone using that phrase but I'm certain you'll tell me if that's incorrect.It's apparent that the only thing that many Forumers are understandably concerned about is the potential spread of Covid-19 from mass meetings, that's not racist it's being responsible during a time of crisis.For the record, the idiots who've flocked to beaches, hold street parties, don't observe social distancing in shops or as yesterday on Turnham Green 30+ people were having a non-socially distanced picnic are precisely that - Idiots !So far LB Hounslow has had a comparatively low infection and death rate, let's keep it that way without potentially pushing those rates north by holding mass meetings of any kind in the current pandemic climate.

Loraine Pemberton ● 2320d

Oh dear, I am doubting the existence of my self now.

Anne England ● 2320d

Everyone should read it...

Loraine Pemberton ● 2320d

Why? Nobody believes that your concerns and those of others on this thread about this protest have anything to do with the potential threat to health.

Mark Evans ● 2320d

Oh really Mark? Your point being? Would you care to explain the basis of your view?Or are you implying something more sinister? It would be interesting to hear some sort of substantiation of your comment.

Richard Kay ● 2320d

What Mark means by “nobody believes”  is that everybody disbelieves which obviously makes him the unofficial spokesman to the vast majority on this forum, effortlessly carrying the weight of all that moral authority on his wide shoulders...Unless he's a twerp...

Stuart Kerr ● 2320d

Unfortunately it's people like you who seek to deliberately misconstrue and manipulate others words to the proclaim sinister intent where absolutely none exists ! You appear to be saying that everyone who has posted their real concerns about mass meetings spreading Covid-19 are both liars and racists, or have I misconstrued your post ?

Loraine Pemberton ● 2320d

Marks Herculean efforts should inspire us all Stuart. Unless he’s a bit of a twit....Let’s wait and see......

Richard Kay ● 2320d

Mark, you really need to apologise Alina has suffered terribly loss from C19 how you can write such a dreadful post is beyond me and everyone else on this thread, shame on you.

Jayne Thorburn ● 2320d

And who is Alina?

Brian Coyle ● 2320d

Check out covid new infections thread

Jayne Thorburn ● 2320d

Now that's a very good question, Brian. Alina's sad tale about the death of various members of her family is on a different thread. We can all feel enormously sorry for her. But the only thing that connects Mark's amd Alina's posts is Jayne's confected outrage. 

Robert Fish ● 2320d

You’re wrong Fish. Read Loraine’s posting at 0921 this morning. That’s the connection. Again, you leap in, this time attacking Jayne.

Richard Kay ● 2320d

Thanks, Robert. Jayne please stick to one thread at a time, then we've all got some idea of what you're talking about.

Brian Coyle ● 2320d

Brian, this admittedly confusing cross over has nothing to do with Jayne.

Richard Kay ● 2320d

Just to clarify, Jayne, Stuart, Loraine and I were responding to Mark Evans posting.

Richard Kay ● 2320d

Stuart referred to the "weight of all that moral authority" on Mark's shoulders. But I observe some questionable tactics from Mark's antagonists in pursuit of their own claims to the moral high ground. Using Alina's experience is a pretty low blow.

Robert Fish ● 2320d

RichardMea culpa, it was me who highlighted Alina's factual but heartbreaking post on the Covid thread. I believed it would bring some perspective to this thread, sadly I didn't take into account the nastiness and lack of empathy  of a few Forumers.

Loraine Pemberton ● 2320d

Robert, what utter piffle ! Alina's post on the Covid thread has a direct link to this thread ie spreading Covid-19 - or is that too subtle for you ? You clearly lack any empathy for those who've suffered from this appalling virus and it's aftermath, but possibly worse that you apparently support mass meetings that can spread it yet further.The irony is that many of the most vulnerable to this dreadful virus are those who will attend these mass meetings, be it in Chiswick, Brentford or anywhere else in the world !

Loraine Pemberton ● 2320d

You can call my argument piffle, if you so wish. You made the link, and you did it clearly to be able to deploy the kind of specious argument you're now using against me. The fact that I don't support you and your band of rabid critics of Anil Patel doesn't mean that I haven't "any empathy for those who've suffered from this appalling virus". As ever, when you encounter opposing views on any subject you employ a false dichotomy to discredit the other person's position.

Robert Fish ● 2320d

Yet more piffle from you and it's grossly inaccurate as well, careful Robert your OCD is showing.My band of 'rabid critics' ? I'd no idea I've the ability to influence others 🤣Btw please give examples of the "false dichotomy" you allege, because I've no idea what you're ranting on about.Suggest you read my Open Letter to Anil Patel which clearly, concisely and factually sets out my concerns regarding any mass meetings during the Covid-19 pandemic.

Loraine Pemberton ● 2320d

I'm surprised you don't understand what is the false dichotomy. It's described in the third sentence of my post. I've read your pretentious open letter to Anil Patel. It brought no new insights. I disagree with it because I have a totally different assessment of the risks to public health posed by the BLM protest. On the sale of risk, it doesn't come close to shopping in a supermarket or queueing for ice cream outside Oddono's.

Robert Fish ● 2320d

scale of risk

Robert Fish ● 2320d

I’ve never been called a rabid critic before! Should I be flattered?

Richard Kay ● 2319d

😄 It's up to you!

Robert Fish ● 2319d

Hello everyone,Again into the fray of personal attacks and repetition. I did say i would be back Saturday. Did you miss me? I wonder what drives you to lash out and cherry pick information? Ah i know its called "white fragility", which actually can come in many colours as i have experienced and not solely owned by the race known as Caucasian. The correct name for someone white. The term is also baffling as there are so many cultures within that group of humans. I have never seen on a form Caucasian- German for example. I do ask again that you refrain from breaking this forum's code of conduct, you have all had the opportunity to call  me on the phone. Your love of writing here shows you need support in your disapproval of me rather than talk to me like a civil human being on the phone about your concerns. I must thank my allies who have had the courage and strength to stand up to such attacks on their character for merely stating very obvious truths and questions. To attack my emotional intelligence is really unbecoming, i am human just like you with family in danger just like you. Unfortunately due to the pandemic that is racism and covid-19 people of colour are more at risk of dying, hence why these protests will not stop no matter how you veil your pleas protesting against a peaceful socially distanced protest. The fact that you can not just show solidarity from your homes is a display of white fragility.I laughed at the posts about journalism, the job of which is to seek the truth and not look for an opportunity to twist the truth to an opinion. Which like i said before please look at multiple sources before making your mind up. To have the privilege to make your mind up to support a protest against racism is something to think about. Some more useful links:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwIx3KQer54realities of race and racismhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Jin7ISV85swhat it means to not be racisthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45ey4jgoxeU&t=215svery informative and detailed discussion on white fragility.https://www.daslaw.co.uk/blog/right-to-peaceful-protestWhat the Law that keeps getting repeating actually says.https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-understanding-the-impact-on-bame-communitiesself explanatoryhttps://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/13/bma-demands-answers-over-missing-bame-pages-of-covid-19-reportFeel free to educate yourself with other useful information i am happy to share what i am learning myself. Unfortunately i wasn't able to get a live streaming ability this time. I am working on it fir the next protest. Also what has come out of this? Well there is an art installation ins the works and an outdoor theatre production, If you are a lover of the arts i do hope you can join me in supporting them in these times of harshness and hostility, while they support Black Lives Matter.For those who are having that very insensitive conversation with people who scream White Lives Matter in response to Black Lives Matter here is a useful video:https://www.facebook.com/1024334552/videos/10220210759992239/Private message me if you would like the original video.Kindest RegardsAnil Patel To whoever funds this site maybe a good idea would be to ask for moderators to keep out people you do not like in this Community forum.

Anil Patel ● 2319d

Oh dear!  Words fail me. Utter narcissistic drivel. No personal offence meant Anil. You consistently refuse to answer any of the questions posed. So I personally won’t be discussing this matter any further with you. Some posters who seem to support your position have argued a much more coherent and educated case than you, and I respect their arguments whilst not agreeing. I have no respect  the way you construct your case or your non response to some perfectly reasonable questions.

Richard Kay ● 2319d

We need Michael Brown on this one -he is conspicuous by his absence.

Jeffrey Cope ● 2319d

Anil you have still not answered any of my concerns you say you have vulnerable people in your family so why are you going to protest and risk their lives . The virus doesn't care about race, you are totally irresponsible and I believe you are only protesting for your own gain. I find your comments patronising saying you are trying to educate us. I don't need educating. You need educating on the risk of the virus spreading totally irresponsible of you to notice people to the protest . I am sure you won't reply you never do ,

Renate Stroud ● 2319d

A much respected doctor Dr John Campbell who has followed Covid-19 from the start with regular blogs about its worldwide progress and varied impact in different countries strongly advises anyone attending protests or gatherings such as that recently in Liverpool UK should self-isolate for 14 days - no ifs no buts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8-6ql1iTsY

Bobbie Carnegie ● 2319d

Robert, Zero 'false dichotomy' but opinion.'Pretentious' open letter, not at all, but a genuine request to Anil Patel to postpone his BLM meetings today in order to negate any potential spread of Covid-19. However, when it comes to being pretentious Anil Patel has a PhD in that with you hanging on to his coat tails. Have actually read his latest passive-aggressive post ?So you know better than the medical and scientific professionals all of whom publish against mass meetings. Perhaps you should apply to be on the panel of SAGE.

Loraine Pemberton ● 2319d

I'm surprised you still don't understand what is a false dichotomy, given that it's a tactic you regularly employ in argument. As regards mass meetings, I'm not at odds with the "medical and scientific professionals". I agree that mass meetings are a threat to public health in the circumstances of the pandemic. But it all hinges on the definition of "mass meeting". Mass meeting for me would be the hordes on the beach in Bournemouth, the football supporters in Liverpool, and possibly also the hundreds of non-socially-distanced drinkers along the riverside wall in Barnes that I saw on Thursday. To call a small, well-managed, socially-distanced protest (with the majority of protesters using masks) a mass meeting or gathering is to distort the normal meaning of words. It is also at odds with the WHO definition of mass gathering: an occasion, either organised or spontaneous, where the number of people attending is sufficient to strain the planning and response resources of the community.

Robert Fish ● 2319d

RobertStop with being so incredibly patronising- it's both boring a tedious, and not just for me ! I dont employ tactics, but I do say as I find. The fact that you find fault with my posts  says way more about you than it does me.The fact that you support these meetings and find no potential harm in them for people's health is astounding. It's also somewhat irrelevant whether a meeting is well managed, peaceful and socially distanced because this virus is transmitted through coughing, sneezing, touch, breathing heavily. Also remember social distancing is now a mere 1 meter.You have your opinions and I have mine. Let's agree to differ, and I sincerely pray there won't be a 2nd wave caused by socially thoughtless and careless people be they on a beach, by the riverside or at any protest meeting. Bye bye.

Loraine Pemberton ● 2319d

Aside from all this barking....Fortunately or unfortunately it's not always possible to predict nowadays whether meetings (or anything come to that) will be mass meetings or pleasant get-togethers for a few..We live in a world where Covid isn't the only thing that goes viral...A few years back I doodled with putting satire onto the internet - and several times got the shock/thrill of seeing a story go small-time viral.  By that I mean getting about a hundred thousand hits in half a day.  It's a funny old world out there..Now, I don't imagine for a minute that five thousand souls will surprisingly turn out for Anil's gig today.  Or that another fifty yobs from Eltham will pick up news of something going on over Chissick way and jump on their bikes looking for a punch-up.Nah – that ain't gonna happen.  Never does.  There'll be a quiet 100 turn up to take the knee and I imagine all or most of us here support most of the cause...Only never be so absolutely sure that things never escalate..'Cos one day you might get the shock of your life and get caught up is something you've never experienced before that comes unannounced from out of nowhere...carry on....

Stuart Kerr ● 2319d

Excellent post Stuart 👏

Loraine Pemberton ● 2319d

Exactly  Stuart.  Let’s give them the benefit of the doubt shall we, that all those standing shoulder to shoulder all live in the same household, because it is definitely going to be a socially distanced protest.

Maggie Dodge ● 2319d

Really? Name Calling? Do you have any evidence to go against my well reasoned and educated response? The response which was well mannered and had some humour in but like the toxicity of racism you fail to understand or engage in with respect the discussion. Constantly deflecting and dancing around the topic. Please do not project your personalities on to me. I was very glad to meet someone who has been reading this thread. They were horrified by the treatment i have been receiving. Unfortunately i am used to bullies. I do not need someone to pat me on the back and congratulate my response to a thread. I welcome praise where it is due. There has been nothing worthy of praise except the people who have been posting with understanding of the situation. It is quite revolting to see people stroking others egos over an insensitive comment. I would like to tell you that the protest went very well considering the weather and united people who are determined to not let racism live in the darkness of our society. Your complaints are noted and you have a way of reaching me via phone or private messaging me. If your complaint was serious you would have the courage to challenge me on it privately. You have the luxury to debate about racism, people living with discrimination do not and it is killing them on top of the covid-19 which from the governments own evidence grossly effects Black and Indigenous People of Colour worse.Its okay if you want to ignore evidence. It is your choice to stay ignorant. If you believe you do not need educating, you have therefore assumed you know everything. Are you All Knowing?Some more evidence i choose to hope you read with an open mind and compassion, of which is lacking here. I do not need you to like me. To unjustly villify me says a lot about your character. I ask you politely to stop as it violates the code of conduct in this forum.https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/dec/02/revealed-the-stark-evidence-of-everyday-racial-bias-in-britainhttps://leftfootforward.org/2020/06/five-shocking-stats-about-police-brutality-in-the-uk/https://www.manchester.ac.uk/discover/news/racism-is-still-a-huge-problem/https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/racistorreligioushateincidentsFeel free to send me any evidence backing up your opinions.Kindest RegardsAnil

Anil Patel ● 2318d

You are ignorant of what the legal term 'slander' means, Anil.  And posting link after link to stuff no one is going to read as most of us are clued up is not an answer.  As for 'deflecting and dancing around the topic' - the topic is that it is stupid, reckless and dangerous to hold this kind of gathering in the midst of a coronavirus pandemic.  You have deflected and barely mentioned the topic of coronavirus but instead just ranted and spewed out link after link on here on the subject of racism.  Anyone can do that.  You really do not care about people who have/are/will suffer from this virus, even though the majority will probably be black/Asian.  I hope you and everyone else who attended yesterday is self-isolating, for the security of the rest of us.  As I said before, I support many causes and charities and they are near bankrupt because they have been responsible and have not organised fund-raising events.  Yet you think your protest, which will achieve nothing, has to be an exception.  I don't know if you work in business.  If you do - although I suspect you may think such work beneath you -  you will have had the acronym SMART regarding objectives.  Educate yourself if you don't understand what it means.  This event had no SMART objectives, waa a total waste of time and probably only succeeded in spread the virus to others - many of whom did not attend but will catch it by proxy - some of who will become seriously ill and may die.  Well done, I hope your ego is happy.

Claire Moran ● 2318d

Realistically, why would you hope for all those who attended this protest to be self isolating when there have been far greater gatherings in the last few days which had the potential to cause harm  and increase infection vastly, vastly in excess of whatever harm this protest might have created. Do you hope that everyone who crowded on the beaches in recent days is self isolating now? And if you do, do you really think there's any chance of your hopes coming to fruition?

Andrew Jones ● 2318d

Most scientists seem to think that because of recent behaviour and the way they think the virus operates (and having quite an in-depth knowledge of coronavirus in other species I think they are probably right) that we may be in lockdown again in the Autumn/Winter.  If they are right, I will blame people like Anil, Beverley, the people who went to the beaches (not the ones first on there but the incredibly stupid people who saw the crowding problem and still pitched in anyway) and those like you, Andrew, who seem to think to object to people risking spreading the virus is all a bit silly for the deaths, the long-term health problems, the grief of relatives and friends and the dire economic situation some will find themselves in as a result and the economic effect on the nation from which we may never recover.  And it will hit black and ethnic minorities worst of all.

Claire Moran ● 2318d

What a silly thing to say, Matthew.  We can hopefully deter some people who are responsible for joining in this coronavirus spreading fest as it is local. Bit more difficult to reach people on the South Coast.  But you knew that.

Claire Moran ● 2318d

Very well said Claire , Anil has never replied to any of my concerns as someone who is at risk of becoming seriously ill if they catch the virus. It's got nothing to do with being racist this virus doesn't care who it infects so I hope all the people who attended today and also those who went to the packed beaches and parks will feel ashamed that they putting other people at risk. The scientists have already said there is a great risk of a second spike, and for those like myself who are now allowed a little freedom are wondering wether it's wise to venture out because of all the people breaking the rules.Anil please reply to this post !!!

Renate Stroud ● 2318d

He won't, Renate, he's too much of a coward to respond to anything that doesn't fit his rigid agenda

Claire Moran ● 2318d

Remember, he will assume you are white, and so, even with cancer, are 'privileged'.

Claire Moran ● 2318d

Hope no one actually knelt down???

Beverly Roberts ● 2318d

Renate, I'm sure you would recognise that a small, well-managed, socially-distanced protest, where the bulk of the participants wear masks, represents an infinitely lower level of risk than packed beaches where almost no-one wears a mask. There's no point in demanding an answer from Anil. He clearly disagrees fundamentally on the issue of level of risk. Crowded beaches and parks and mass protests, violent or otherwise, represent an extreme end of the risk scale, but between them and the relatively low risk level of Anil's type of local protest there are other significant risks — going to the supermarket, for example, given that so few people use masks. Instead of getting upset about Anil's demo, why not press for the use of masks in any enclosed space, other than private homes? Frankly, I can't understand why the use of face-coverings is obligatory only on public transport.

Robert Fish ● 2318d

Claire, Andrew asked you a question on the China thread that you started. I am assuming you haven’t seen it. You are keen for Anil to reply to you. It only seems right that you respond to that. You wouldn’t want people to think of you what you have just said about Anil.

Stewart Jones ● 2318d

People like you who have huge chips on both shoulders just love stirring, Stewart. I have no regard for what a misery with axes in both hands to grind like you thinks. Your posts are without exception bitter, nasty, negative, political and designed to stir up trouble.  Night night.

Claire Moran ● 2318d

I'm sorry Robert but I find your reply slightly patronising I have always said I disagree with any mass gathering and the gathering today was clearly over 6 people . The use of masks doesn't completely stop the spread of the virus so . If Anil really cared then he would not have arranged a protest , the same goes for all the beach and party goers

Renate Stroud ● 2318d

Well said, Renate.  I hope you are as well as can be expected in the circumstances and that your loved ones are looking after you.

Claire Moran ● 2318d

Thank you Claire

Renate Stroud ● 2318d

I'm sorry to read you have been targeted by certain people on this forum. If it is any reassurance it was always clear who those people would be from their previous activity on here. Might I add, I have personally been surprised to see you targeted by those whom I have seen hanging around in groups and not socially distancing over lockdown in the exact same park. The projections geared at you are fascinating considering this.Pot, kettle, black screams to mind. Am glad to hear that the protest went safe. Thanks Anil.

Kayte Martin ● 2318d

kayte,who are you referring to.?

Richard Kay ● 2318d

kayte, Be early, how about a little explanation for your views? Or are you the sort that just hits and run? Chiswick

Richard Kay ● 2318d