Forum Topic

China

Not local, I know, but there were posts a little while ago about how 'nice' China is now it has done a PR job saying it is classifying dogs as companion animals. Somehow, they seem to have forgotten that the notorious Yulin dog and cat torture and killing festival is about to start where fully conscious animals have their limbs chopped off, are boiled or blow torched alive as apparently torture makes the meat taste better. https://blog.humanesociety.org/2020/06/yulin-dog-meat-festival-to-begin-this-weekend-defying-chinese-declaration-that-dogs-are-pets-not-food.html?credit=blog_em_061920_id11472Don't live in a bubble. All lives matter, including animals.

Claire Moran ● 2327d39 Comments

Sad that these animals have to be killed in this way, this world is so diverse and different. At least they arent killing each other.

Jimmy Kim ● 2327d

China has never been great, yet we stomped out of Europe claiming great trade deals to be done with them. And with the US. Yes, “All lives matter, including animals.” That’s why we should have stayed with Europe and continued to work to raise animal welfare conditions even further. Instead, we are wilfully abandoning all that and subscribing to the worst of animal welfare standards. That, as they say, is what the country voted for,

Beryl Wall ● 2327d

I agree with your sentiments about animals, Beryl, but the EU supports bullfighting and live export of vulnerable little baby cows in horrendous conditions and much else that appalling for animals.  Shame you had to drag Brexit into this.  What I want is for everyone to sign every petition going about Yulin and there are a lot. Every single country, including our factory farming methods, treats animals appallingly but deliberate torture is unforgivable.  I boycott everything I can from certain countries and will never visit again Asia, the US and Spain unless they stop deliberately enjoying torture of animals

Claire Moran ● 2327d

I don’t get why you object to the Brexit argument. Animal welfare is central. We shall most certainly have chlorinated chicken from the US  (and, please, no one explain to me why it’s edible) and, if as is about as certain as can be, the US achieves it’s insistence on no labelling, it’s all over for animal welfare. For me, that’s a major issue in the Brexit argument: animal welfare, use of pesticides and, therefore, food standards. That’s a major reason why I voted Remain, so how could I not mention it?

Beryl Wall ● 2327d

Never heard from you before Jimmy.Are you a fifty cent Wumao by any chance ?You sound like one.

Ben Gemmingen ● 2327d

In addition, we could have had some influence on animal welfare in Europe. The US and China won’t give us the time of day. I truly don’t understand why anyone who cares for animal welfare, for bees, for the use of pesticides, indeed for the health of the planet would have thrown us to the mercy of the likes of the US and China. That’s just my view.

Beryl Wall ● 2327d

And GM food will soon be on the menu.

Micki Hawkes ● 2327d

'Never heard from you before Jimmy.'The most cursory search shows that he has been posting on the forum for the past two years about a variety of subjects.Kim is a Korean name.

Susan Kelly ● 2327d

You are right ,Beryl. We were for the most part the leaders in the EU in improving animal welfare standards. We have thrown it all away and in our desperation to secure any trade deals at all , will agree to anything the Americans and the Chinese want.

Stewart Jones ● 2327d

That was an ill-judged post. Pretty close to offensive. But mostly dumb as the accused, Jimmy, has a thread under his name right next to this thread. So not a "fifty cent wu mao".

Alan Clark ● 2327d

SJ > "We have thrown it all away and in our desperation to secure any trade deals at all , will agree to anything the Americans and the Chinese want."And don't forget the mighty New Zealand, who are prepared to veto the UK's entry into CPTPP if they don't get "vastly improved access for agricultural products into the UK."https://www.politik.co.nz/2020/06/18/nz-ready-to-get-heavy-with-the-uk/

John Whitworth ● 2327d

A lot of people don't use their real name.

Janice Evans ● 2327d

It says a lot about the UK’s perceived strength and bargaining position if New Zealand sense an opportunity to pressure us to a better deal.

Alan Clark ● 2327d

Claire, be careful what you wish for. Indeed, “All lives matter, including animals”.

Beryl Wall ● 2326d

Beryl, I think very carefully before I take action. Nothing is perfect. I weigh up all the risks and opportunities and act accordingly.  Shame others don't seem to and yet seem happy to  lecture others.

Claire Moran ● 2326d

Goodness knows how many petitions I’ve signed.I’ve been signing them for years.

Rima Jones ● 2326d

Me too.  But it’s equally if not more important to make sound political choices, as Beryl has been referring to.  (And to face up to mistakes).

Alastair Banton ● 2326d

It will be important to have the right government in power to ensure the right laws are passed. If they don't pass the laws that people want, they will be out. Not something that can be said about the EU.

Claire Moran ● 2326d

Yes Jimmy, its a pity they aren't.💀

Juliet Hogg ● 2325d

If they did  then Yulin festival would end. 👍

Juliet Hogg ● 2325d

“It will be important to have the right government in power to ensure the right laws are passed. If they don't pass the laws that people want, they will be out. Not something that can be said about the EU.” True to a point, but so what? If, as the government is saying, we make trade deals with the US and with China, we will have absolutely no influence over those deals (we have no leverage, after all) and, once done, it won’t matter which government we vote for. We will still be tied to these countries. There are likely to be punitive break clauses as well. The US has already stipulated no labelling (food labelling was a great EU achievement: country of origin, ingredients, possible allergens). It’s not looking good for animals. As for trading so massively with countries that have the death penalty, it’s not good for people either.  “All lives matter” is sounding very hollow.

Beryl Wall ● 2325d

No food labelling is allowed about the wickedly cruel halal and kosher killing of animals whose throats are slit while fully conscious and they slowly and agonisingly bleed to death, Beryl. Would you be happy for that to happen to you?  We have no influence over that, or the appalling live export of calves.  We can and should have influence over the deals we do.  We had virtually no influence with the EU, our votes were ignnored time after time. Your anti Brexit stance is now completely hollow, as we will be completely out by the end of this year.

Claire Moran ● 2325d

You haven't understood Beryl's point. Ultimately food standards and animal welfare standards are far, far lower in China than in the EU whatever quibbles you may have the latter. We are utterly dependent on expanding trade with China going forward to compensate for the contraction we will see with Europe. The Chinese know this, the government knows this so there is no way that animal welfare issues will be raised in any trade talks and we will be forced to accept food products for which the certification will be much more lax than it was previously. This necessarily means that the sum of animal suffering that has gone into feeding us will increase.

Kevin Howard ● 2325d

CM > "No food labelling is allowed about the wickedly cruel halal and kosher killing of animals..."The European Parliament approved the introduction of such labelling in 2010.Guess which member state opposed the legislation?CM > "We had virtually no influence with the EU, our votes were ignnored time after time."Untrue (for example, see above).

John Whitworth ● 2325d

Don't provide facts! Facts are not what made Brexit great. Mis-information, bias and having a closed mind are what made Brexit great. With a sprinkling of lies on top. And facts won't stop Brexit fans believing that Brexit is great. No amount of border checks, no level of customs duties, no failing of companies, or anything will change the minds of a true believer. And facts won't even register.

Alan Clark ● 2325d

Bl**dy Brexiteers!!! You didn't think it through, now we're in one almighty mess.😠

Juliet Hogg ● 2323d

Bloody proponents of halal and kosher killing.  We have been in a mess for a very, very long time.

Claire Moran ● 2323d

By ‘proponents’ of halal and kosher who do you mean?

Stewart Jones ● 2323d

I boycott any shops or stalls which display the words 'halal' or 'kosher'. I think a lot of people are in willful ignorance of what these mean.

Anne England ● 2323d

Any comment about the points (about labeling food as Halal etc.) that John made in his post at 09.38 Claire?

Andrew Jones ● 2323d

I hardly think Brexit is going to address any concerns regarding halal and kosher killing - which I avoid. It is simply going to throw us into much darker waters regarding animal welfare. Does anyone really think the US or China cares about animal welfare? Wake up!

Beryl Wall ● 2322d

But apparently people knew they were voting to accept worse animal welfare standards and the inevitability of chlorinated chicken. Presumably, they think it is a price worth paying for a blue passport with fewer rights than the red one. Hey ho.

Stewart Jones ● 2322d

Bump

Stewart Jones ● 2320d

Waitrose meat is halal is it not. I don't buy it but don't recall seeing it labelled as such when I did buy it in the past. They say it causes less wastage. Check their website for details.

Katrina Black ● 2320d

To be fair, we won't have to pay our share of the 30,000 bureaucrats in Brussels.So after we've paid for the 50,000 customs officers we're busy recruiting plus all the others we need to make up for not having access to shared EU schemes any more we can spend what's left on the NHS.Oh...

Guy Lambert ● 2320d

It’s almost as if nothing has been thought through. As if that could possibly happen.......

Stewart Jones ● 2320d

Most New Zealand lamb is halal, though not generally labelled as such by the big supermarkets. Once we entered the EEC and abandoned Commonwealth preferences, New Zealand had to find other markets, which they did in the Middle East and other Muslim countries. It was easier to make all their meat production halal on the basis that most of their customers demanded it, while those who didn't wouldn't mind. I had some correspondence with Tescos about this and, in answer to my point that customers should have this information so they could avoid supporting questionable production techniques and religious practices they might not support, Tescos explained they didn't need to label it as they weren't making a specific claim about its origins. Clearly they felt that such labelling would put off more customers than it would attract, and they could be right.

Peter Evans ● 2320d

Message from Greenpeace.“ Following the surprise return of Coronovirus to Beijing earlier this month, Europe is desperately trying to prevent a second wave. A major outbreak at a meat plant in Western Germany caused many on the continent to worry.37 outbreaks at abattoirs and meat packing plants have been identified across Europe since March which lead to at least 9 factory closures.”

Rima Jones ● 2319d

We could, once, have lobbied the EU to label halal meat as such. (And, actually, it is possible to have organic halal meat where the animals have been stunned while a recorded prayer is recited - just in case that is important to anyone here.) But those days, and those opportunities are gone. Once we have rolled over in order to trade with the US we will have no say on anything, but at least we’ll have shown those Europeans what we’re made of.  Personally, I think we should take back control. Oops! Too late. We are about to surrender it forever and a day with eyes wide open, because we have never been sufficiently bothered to engage with with EU and fret, instead, about not being able to vote any of them out. Well. Good luck with voting out Trump.

Beryl Wall ● 2319d