Forum Topic

Joey's bike

I read with incredulity this story on the front page.In short, Joey had her bike stolen, tracked down the thief, went to the police who said they couldn't help because her action in finding the thief constituted entrapment.Seems bonkers but before we jump to blaming the police I would like to know why this would be the case.It's a mad mad world so it could well be correct but does anyone know the legal  position? Could the thief sue the police for example?

Adrian Irving ● 2342d36 Comments

Doesn't seem to be any concrete proof that the person who now has the bike that was stolen from Joey is the person who stole it.So perhaps even if the police are provided with the identity of the person with the bike, in the absence of any evidence, there may not be any offence that person could be charged with.I looked up "handling stolen goods"A person handles stolen goods if (otherwise than in the course of the stealing) knowing or believing them to be stolen goods he dishonestly receives the goods, or dishonestly undertakes or assists in their retention, removal, disposal or realisation by or for the benefit of another person, or if he arranges to do so.Perhaps the act of going to try and buy the bike could be considered entrapment? A shame the police can't just go and take the bike, (assuming that it can be proved it is Joey's stolen bike) and return it to Joey.

Andrew Jones ● 2342d

Was just about to post on the same subject. I gave up on owning a bike a few years back out of sheer frustration at the number I had stolen over the years. I had treated myself to a very good bike that was a joy to ride but quite expensive and it lasted a week despite me being belt and braces on security. I then switched to cheaper bikes but even they often didn't last long and were less fun to ride. Last year I decided to get a bike again but it cost less than the lock I use on it.My jaw dropped when I read Joey's story. For some of my thefts I didn't even bother to get a crime number but here the police were presented with a gift wrapped collar.What I'd be interested to know is if there is really anyway that you can compromise a prosecution by collecting information about the perpetrator yourself. I've never heard of this before and it sounds on the face of it like a jobsworth excuse for inaction.If the government are serious about encouraging cycling, tackling cycle theft would be one of the fairest and cheapest ways to do so. For people on low incomes the cost of even a low spec bike can be daunting and just one stolen can be a permanent discouragement from cycling. If bike thieves are being allowed to operate with impunity then our roads become more congested.

Andrew OSullivan ● 2342d

Found this as well ...https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/somethings-gone-wrong-with-a-purchase/if-you-think-youve-bought-stolen-goods/So if Joey's boyfriend knowingly bought he bike he might be guilty of the offence of handling stolen goods and the person with the bike might not be guilty if they claimed they had no idea it was stolen.

Andrew Jones ● 2342d

The valuable bike was stolen and was subsequently identified as being for sale perhaps at an unrealistic price.It's for the CPS to rule on the entrapment aspect should anyone be considered for prosecution.The police should have acted promptly  to recover stolen property and identify the thief/ handler.

John Todd ● 2342d

Detective Superintendent Andy Cox of the Met Police has tweeted that the suspect has been arrested and the investigation is ongoing. Sense prevails.

Paul Campbell ● 2342d

Good to hear!

Andrew Jones ● 2342d

Good for Joey but less so for people like me who have had their bike stolen and are ugly, don't work for the NHS and don't have celebrity neighbours.

Andrew OSullivan ● 2342d

More from @SuptAndyCox“A male suspect has been charged with theft and has been remanded in custody awaiting a first court hearing today.I will look into initial response and consider any potential learning needed.”

Michael Robinson ● 2342d

Great.It shows it pays to have friends in high places but had Jeremy Vine not got involved, well, GOOD LUCK or should I say TOUGH LUCK.

Adrian Irving ● 2342d

What a crazy world . Some of the police need to go back to Police School me thinks . I seem to recall in civil law the legal principle of nemo dat quod non habet .The seller [& also now suspected thief] can never perfect his title to knicked goods so there was always a civil action open to the owner. Good that Mr Vine got involved . I view the entrapment argument as a lot of twaddle.

John Martin ● 2342d

I agree with you John. If someone is found to be driving a stolen vehicle then that vehicle is immediately confiscated by the police whether the driver is the thief or just someone who has innocently bought it, in that case the innocent buyer loses all the money they will have paid out.With regard to entrapment, without knowing exactly what went on when the advert was followed up, if the seller was not informed of the bike being stolen, there is no way there has been any entrapment, If you think about it, police investigations could all be cases of entrapment, therefore, twaddle is the right word.Good news that police seem to have acted, but Mr Vine should not be the reason for their action.

Bob Guyett ● 2342d

Has the owner got the bike back do we know?

Adrian Irving ● 2342d

Fingers crossed that sense has now prevailed.  We need a good all-round community spirit to move forward.  Unfortunately when people give up looking after their possessions and reporting them missing it makes it worse.  We can all understand the problems with the pressure of time.  Time is what we make of it my Grandmother always used to say.  She was definitely right but I don't think her life was quite the same!

Philippa Bond ● 2342d

Phillipa,You've lost the plot! A hard working nurse  has her bike stolen and the police are slow to actYou now imply some negligence on the part of the nurse.I hope you're not picked as a jury member

John Todd ● 2342d

Sadly I had my bike stolen last month - the police are simply uninterested even though the evidence suggests that there are professional gangs now doing this (lock down means more people want bikes and gumtree & ebay provide an easy way of selling).Just to show the level of professionalism amongst the thieves my bike was chained to the wall and had a D-Lock on front wheel and frame - thieves took a bolt cutter to the chain, put the bike with D Lock attached into a van and drove off.  Police officer I spoke to you said that they probably come in from a different part of London, drive to a workshop and take an angle grinder to the D Lock (takes 15-20 mins) then would sell the bike for £250 on gumtree.

Justin Stephenson ● 2342d

If the arrested man pleads not guilty will it get logged in evidence and not available to Joey until after the trial?

Anita Blake ● 2342d

What ??????She was negligent ?Jeez Philippa ......

Madeleine Hazard ● 2341d

No negligence on Joey's part !Delighted the Police are now doing something and big thanks to Jeremy Vine for getting involved.

Loraine Pemberton ● 2341d

This story reminds me of how often  there are problems with the local Council that only get sorted out because a Councillor is a member of this forum.  It’s not the way it should be.

Maggie Dodge ● 2341d

Philippa - did you actually read the article on the front page before you put your halo on and made your comments?  If you did, then your assumption was spiteful.  I am willing to give you the benefit of doubt!

Cindy Carloss ● 2341d

My partner was using a very old bike in the hope no one would want to steal it, when he return to it a man was closely inspecting it so my partner ask what the problem was, this guy told him it was a very rare bike  it was to do with the material it was made from.  So he don't use it anymore.

Janice Evans ● 2341d

Phillipa, what ever to do don't apologise.In the meantime I am trying to cook up a cover story that folks will think "resonable".I will pm you when I have got one. May take a couple of weeks though.

Adrian Irving ● 2341d

Take two;Whatever you do, don't apologise.

Adrian Irving ● 2341d

Its good the Police have got off their bums and are doing something. If Mr Vine had not intervened they would have discouraged any action imo . Some idiot tried to steal my DD's bike a little while back but the D lock she had bought was so good all the idiot could do was buckle the bike so it was wrecked . We reported it to Plod got a crime number and the insurance { Coop] paid up within a £ or two of the loss without an issue.Coop are sensible about this sort of thing.

John Martin ● 2341d

John - you have misunderstood my rushed post.Yes, it is a problem that the police are understaffed and bikes are probably not on the top of their list of emergencies.  Being handed the info was surely a gift to them.  I'm disappointed that more people do not report their bikes missing and do not take more care of them so that they are not seen as such an easy money maker.  I didn't suggest that Joey had been careless but other posts suggested that the problem of bike theft is substantial in Chiswick anyway and leads to people buying cheaper bikes so they don't have to worry so much about them.  However it still seems very difficult to keep them safe.  Thieves of course just see whatever precautions you take as a challenge and the more bikes around the more of a chance to make some money. Every bike owner needs to be prepared and have a photo of their bike and all info ready so that they can easily report it missing and claim it if found.  The police always used to suggest www.bikeregister.com for registering your bike and for looking for a lost bike and checking whether the bike you have been offered is stolen.  Every so often you will find bike marking sessions.

Philippa Bond ● 2341d

Philippa, I wish you had left it to me to come up with an explanation that folks would think "reasonable".More or less telling owners to be more careful I don't think is going to go down too well.The police too busy? Not what Joe public want to hear.Remember we are recruiting 20,000 more officers, fingers crossed.At least you didn't fall into the trap of apologising😐

Adrian Irving ● 2341d

Well Philippa, now I have read your second post, giving your 'reasons' for your first post, I am in no doubt.  Perhaps it's better to keep your thoughts to yourself sometimes.  Glad the halo still fits.

Cindy Carloss ● 2341d

Perhaps Joey does not have the luxury or locking her bike in a secure area which means that no matter how well locked a bike is it can still be a target outside. You state you wish people took more care of their bikes,  I can tell you that even with 2 sold secure Gold locks the thieves can still get to it.Not a great follow up note I have to say

Matthew Swain ● 2341d

I never thought Philippa's post suggested it was Joey's fault.

Janice Evans ● 2341d

"I never thought Philippa's post suggested it was Joey's fault."I agree. I think she was making a general point about cycle theft.

Les Fletcher ● 2341d

Exactly, Philippa often mentionsother things in her posts that are either helpful or to remind us.

Janice Evans ● 2341d

Yep, I agree.  Philippa made the point that many of us don’t even take the time to report petty crimes these days, let alone track down the culprit, as Joey did.  At least that’s how I read it.

Kerry Chandler ● 2341d

The police no longer bother about what they consider petty crime.  Thefts, burglaries are rarely investigated now.

Claire Moran ● 2341d

Pretty unfair post, Cindy.

Claire Moran ● 2341d

Unfortunately when people give up looking after their possessions and reporting them missing it makes it worse. That’s pretty clear, no ?

Madeleine Hazard ● 2341d

No, I took this as speaking in general and not to cast blame on anyone.

Janice Evans ● 2340d