Forum Topic

"People will no longer accept breathing dirty air"

As reported by the BBC, President Macron has told the FT in an interview that the unprecedented actions taken by nations to combat the coronavirus pandemic could lead to more radical action on climate change.“When we get out of this crisis people will no longer accept breathing dirty air. People will say . . . ‘I do not agree with the choices of societies where I’ll breathe such air, where my baby will have bronchitis because of it. And remember you stopped everything for this Covid thing but now you want to make me breathe bad air!’”

Paul Campbell ● 2392d28 Comments

I hope he's right but I think it's optimistic.  And someone needs to tell Trump.

Claire Moran ● 2392d

Ain't that the truth. While we are being optimistic let's hope that the pandemic brings the Americans to their senses and that they vote a grown-up into the most important office in the world.

Paul Campbell ● 2392d

"brings the Americans to their senses and that they vote a grown-up into the most important office in the world"We did. Her name is Hillary. It's the system that f*cked up.

David Lesniak ● 2392d

Good point, David, she won the popular vote but lost in the Electoral College.

David McLoughlin ● 2392d

Paul, as you were telling us in another thread what a large amount of tax you pay I take it your income has not been badly affected by this current crisis.Unfortunately for the majority of the working population this is not the case and, while very few will deny the importance of better air quality, their immediate priority will be trying to stabilise their situation financially.Sometimes the two objectives will come into conflict. For instance it is going to be a hard ask for a sole trader who might have seen a sharp fall in his income to go out and buy a new van now if the planed ULEZ is proceeded with. As the Mayoral election has been postponed it would seem unlikely that Sadiq Khan will push ahead with this scheme which is effectively a regressive tax.

Dan Evans ● 2392d

Having tasted clean air for a month or so, a majority may disagree with you.

Ken Munn ● 2392d

Can't say I noticed the air being particular cleaner but I haven't been out much and have stayed away from the High Road.Even if it isn't noticeable there probably will have been improvements in air quality but most people will recognise that crashing the economy is too high a price to pay for that. Specifically on the ULEZ it falls most heavily on a section of society that has been hardest hit economically by the outbreak. This includes particularly sole traders. Forcing these people to buy new vehicles would be very ill-timed. However, TfL is short of cash so they will probably be lobbying hard to go ahead. The Mayor will have a political choice to make.

Dan Evans ● 2392d

Then subsidise acquisition of new vehicles, either by a scrappage allowance or some other mechanism. Direct subsidy has suddenly ceased to be an anathema.

Ken Munn ● 2391d

It's a sensible suggestion but I'm not sure government generosity will survive for very long after the outbreak and we will start hearing about 'levelling up' again after this is all over. That will make any London specific subsidy a definite non-starter and TfL need the money so they aren't going to be offering it.

Dan Evans ● 2391d

Don't look now, Ken, but the government is already subsidising businesses with grant monies, loans and now extended furlough. No question about it, it has been a lifeline. But it cannot last forever and it does not leave government in a position to offer yet more of the same. I'm also pretty sure government will be looking to invest in rebuilding and improving the NHS and the economy before they turn their attention to subsidising new delivery vehicles. Businesses will be hard pressed to make any investment in capital improvement or to expand. Locally, they will also be hard pressed to prepare for the disruption CS9 construction will cause. Maybe, just maybe, you could try giving businesses a chance to gain their footing again before you insist upon them shouldering yet more because it suits your agenda. Or, if it's that important to you, why don't you personally choose a business and make the investment yourself for them to acquire a new vehicle you deem suitable. It would be a win-win. You would at long last put your money where your mouth is as opposed to getting someone else to do it. Then you'd know the true value of what you propose.

David Lesniak ● 2391d

It may be slightly different this year because air pollution is down because of the lockdown, but in a normal year the number of people in the UK who die prematurely because of air pollution is about twice as many who have so far died because of COVID 19.Over the last 15 years, more will have died from air pollution than in the worst case doom and gloom predictions from Neil Ferguson.If it's ok to inflict huge and lasting economic damage in the name of saving people from COVID 19, why is it not ok to suffer a bit of minor economic pain to improve air quality?

Al Webber ● 2390d

"why is it not ok to suffer a bit of minor economic pain to improve air quality?"Dan is spot on. The economic pain you're inflicting would be on those who are already significantly challenged. If a business has furloughed or laid off staff or closed a branch if they should have one, the moment any financial stability should arise they will not be looking to plunge it into buying a new vehicle in order to comply. They will bring back, hire new or give pay raises to get the staff and the business back on track. Or prepare for the next unknown. What you and Ken are suggesting is that local businesses take it on the chin three times in succession - COVID, ULEZ and CS9. Ask yourself if you would want the same for you, your colleagues and your family.I thought not.

David Lesniak ● 2390d

So when will you be giving up your old car and buying a new eco compliant one, Ken ?You know the one you use to visit your AP's, you did post that on here didn't you or am I mistaken ?

Loraine Pemberton ● 2390d

For what it's, worth I have noticed a very big change in air quality where I live in Grove Park.  I can go for more hours when sitting down without needing oxygen or if out walking round my garden,can now have the oxygen set to a lower level than previously.  Definitely a plus for me but not sure about the economy for the country as a whole which I think must take precedence over a single old person.

Jennifer Selig ● 2390d

Sorry to disappoint you Loraine, but the old car went a few months ago, to be replaced with a compliant one.

Ken Munn ● 2390d

I want my family not to have to breathe stinky air.It's likely that the COVID 19 death toll has been made worse by air pollution as well.  Wuhan has very high air pollution, as does Northern Italy.  There were existing respiratory problems in Northern Italy from air pollution.  I've seen suggestions that the high death toll there is linked to air pollution.As I've said many times, the way to fix air pollution is to get people out of their cars.  The biggest source of particulate pollution is brake and tyre dust.  Electric cars won't fix that.  We have to reduce the number of cars on the roads.

Al Webber ● 2390d

Dirty seems to be making the crisis worse:https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/apr/20/air-pollution-may-be-key-contributor-to-covid-19-deaths-study

Al Webber ● 2389d

Yes. And Type 2 diabetes caused by poor diet and low exercise lifestyles. Politicians will only act when we demand better.

Paul Campbell ● 2389d

That's great news Ken 👏

Loraine Pemberton ● 2389d

PaulYour comment regarding Type 2 Diabetes being caused by poor diet and low exercise lifestyles is less than accurate- see below:-"Genetics Play a Role in Type 2 DiabetesType 2 diabetes can be hereditary. That doesn’t mean that if your mother or father has (or had) type 2 diabetes, you’re guaranteed to develop it; instead, it means that you have a greater chance of developing type 2. Researchers know that you can inherit a risk for type 2 diabetes, but it’s difficult to pinpoint which genes carry the risk. The medical community is hard at work trying to figure out the certain genetic mutations that lead to a risk of type 2."

Loraine Pemberton ● 2389d

Why did you stop where you did in quoting that article, which goes on immediately from where you stoped to describe the importance of lifestyle? Lack of exercise, unhealthy meal planning choices and obesity? I didn't say that all Type 2 diabetes is caused by these factors. I followed on from Al's comment to say that Type 2 diabetes caused by these factors is making the crisis worse as well as pollution.https://www.endocrineweb.com/conditions/type-2-diabetes/type-2-diabetes-causes"Say that two people have the same genetic mutation. One of them eats well, watches their cholesterol, and stays physically fit, and the other is overweight (BMI greater than 25) and inactive. The person who is overweight and inactive is much more likely to develop type 2 diabetes because certain lifestyle choices greatly influence how well your body uses insulin."There are numerous studies showing that personal lifestyle choices are responsible for the fast-rising rates of Type 2 diabetes in western society. Here is another pertinent article. "COVID-19 and the Elephant in the Room" in European Scientist"Data from the first 2204 patients admitted to 286 NHS ICU’s with COVID- 19 reveal that 72.7% of them were overweight or obese.""25-50% of those with type 2 diabetes can significantly improve glycaemic control, blood pressure and send their condition into remission from a variety of interventions including a low refined carbohydrate diet (without needing to count calories) within weeks to months respectively. (17) (18) If this is not the time for Britain to reverse it’s epidemic of type 2 diabetes, which as a single condition has been the most costly to the NHS, then when is?"https://www.europeanscientist.com/en/article-of-the-week/covid-19-and-the-elephant-in-the-room/I have taken the time to post this I think it is so important that we do not think that it is not in our power to manage underlying exacerbating factors like pollution and our lifestyle choices. I have personal experience of losing immediate family with co-morbidities including Type 2 diabetes. And also of course because of the inconvenient truth that as many people as possible choosing to ride a bike instead of driving a car for as many local journeys as they can is one simple solution that will help the individual and society to reverse the Type 2 diabetes epidemic and reduce pollution.

Paul Campbell ● 2389d

Such a shame you didn't post this in your original post re Type 2 Diabetes instead of the terse comment you did.

Loraine Pemberton ● 2389d

The comment was short not terse. Perhaps the shame is that you read what you wanted to and edited an article without citing it in a vain attempt to prove your unhelpful point.Anyway on to bigger and more important ideas. How about our government withdraws financial aid from businesses that are directly contributing to pollution and fuelling the Type 2 diabetes epidemic and unhelathy lifestyles and uses that money instead to fund businesses and public services that reduce pollution and improve the health of the population. In other words good luck but you are on your own to Richard Branson and Tim Martin and here is a lovely big grant or highly competitive commerical loan to manufacture PPE and ventilators?We have a once-in-a-century opportunity to build a better economy and society.Look at what they are doing in Milan to take this opportunity to transform their city for the better:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/21/milan-seeks-to-prevent-post-crisis-return-of-traffic-pollution

Paul Campbell ● 2389d

You're absolutely right Paul about lifestyle choices having an impact on health..But Lorraine is also absolutely right about the colossal effect inherited DNA often has on a person's health.Sometimes an individual using will power really can improve his/her condition by changing his ways..Yet very often, try as hard as he might, improvement simply cannot be made.DNA's very powerful stuff.  Even more powerful than the mind...Maybe you should listen more to one another..

Stuart Kerr ● 2389d

StuartThank you for a balanced view.

Loraine Pemberton ● 2389d

Yes Stuart. I agree and you are also absolutely right. I am not sure how I have given the impression that I don't recognise the role of DNA in illness because I certainly do. Hopefully one day advances in medical science will mean that more can be done to help people whose DNA serves them an unavoidable fate. Most of us can help through charitable contributions.The primary point that I am trying to make is that there are many practical actions that society can take to help those for whom free will can make a difference, between a 1/4 and a 1/2 of Type 2 diabetes sufferers according to that European Scientist article. And of course the people suffering from respiratory conditions caused or exacerbated by the level of pollution in our cities. There is more that we can all do to support those actions, not least encouraging our politicans to make decisions that have looked too tough for some before now.

Paul Campbell ● 2389d

Paul, there are those that ruin their own health by smoking.

Janice Evans ● 2389d

Could never understand those who do the keep fit and healthy diet but continue to smoke or take drugs.

Janice Evans ● 2389d