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Coronavirus: Care workers 'shocked' by virus treatment guidance

Keep a close eye on any of your over 75’s relatives medical records, as a similar thing is happening in London. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52155359

Bernard Allen ● 2406d17 Comments

My mother spent the last two years of her life in a nursing home, unable to move or speak, needing to be fed every spoonful of food and turned every two hours to avoid bedsores. The nursing home and I were agreed that she should not go into hospital under any circumstances, because she wouldn't be fed or turned there.Don't let your elderly relatives be carted off to hospital to be tortured by aggressive treatment which is unlikely to do any good.

Susan Kelly ● 2406d

Understand your situation. But you knew and agreed on what everyone wanted.But just because you are old, the medical profession are adding DNR's to older patients records without them knowing or any relatives knowing about it, and it is a legal document, as I have been involved in one being drawn up. It was flagged up in early 2019 by nursing staff, and it got into the local press. But then it all went quiet. I wonder why?So if an older relative ends up in hospital just keep alert.

Bernard Allen ● 2406d

I am one of the seriously vulnerable elderly.  I am immune to most of the regular pneumonia drugs.  Frankly, I do not want to block up a bed in hospital needed for a younger fitter person with a far better chance of survival.  I signed do not resusicate several months ago.  Lying helpless, like a beached whale, being kept alive by machines is not for me.  Not averse to taking additional drugs myself at home if that is a feasible course of action.  I want to live and am not ready to die at this point in time while still enjoying myself so must make every effort to stay safe.

Jennifer Selig ● 2406d

Jennifer I understand where you are coming from, I was involved in a DNR order some time ago. But that is what you want to do and you understand whats it means.But say you had a stay in hospital and when you get your discharge letter, under the heading of Legal Information you notice a reference to a DNR order. What would be your reaction if you had not talked about it or signed anything legal and this is the first time you had seen anything about it?

Bernard Allen ● 2406d

I really admire your stance, Jennifer, and would feel the same in your situation.

Susan Kelly ● 2406d

I give up they still haven’t got it.

Bernard Allen ● 2406d

I agree with you Bernard although I'd say everyone should keep an eye on their records which we all have a legal right to have access to.

Ben Gemmingen ● 2406d

This is something that should be discussed before becoming ill and going or not going to hospital. (Many care homes will call an ambulance when anything unforeseen happens as they just don't have the staff to deal with it.). I find the person with the clipboard when you arrive at A&E asking whether you want to be resuscitated or not before there has been any assessment objectionable.  There was a problem when patients were being put on the Liverpool Pathway without any discussion with family.  The big problem is that we just don't talk about death and our wishes surrounding it often enough.  It is too much of a taboo subject.

Philippa Bond ● 2406d

Philippa's right. We will all die, so talk about it. Tell your family how and where you would prefer to die, whether you want to cling on at all costs or bow out gracefully.

Susan Kelly ● 2406d

An important detail about DNR's which I think is accurate...They're only valid for one year so need re-activating annually..

Stuart Kerr ● 2406d

How would you respond if a DNR was put on your medical record without. your knowledge ?How would you respond if a close relative wasn’t resuscitated because a DNR was place on there medical record without there knowledge or any other member of the close family knowledge.Some of you do know what is written on your medical records, but many have no idea what hey contain.All I want to put across, is to keep an eye on any elderly relative  who ends up in hospital for what ever reason.

Bernard Allen ● 2406d

You still haven’t got It Susan

Bernard Allen ● 2406d

I have 'got it', Bernard. DNR orders have been put on patients by hospitals and care homes, often without the knowledge of patient and family, for years. What you haven't 'got' is that the NHS may have to choose who they are going to save.

Susan Kelly ● 2406d

DNR is obviously a sensitive subject both my parents had DNR in place neither wanted to die but equally neither wanted to live if they had no quality of life. Yes they were consulted as was the family, it’s a dreadful decision but sadly a real one. Totally agree as one ages and most probably have underlying heath issues dignity for most people prevails, who would want to be hooked up to a machine. It’s is a tough time for everyone stay home to protect yourself and the NHS.

Jayne Thorburn ● 2406d

Alright Susan keep your wig on.I understand that sometimes Doctors have to make difficult decisions about the patients in their care. But what gives a medical professional the right to put a DNR on a patients record without that patients knowledge? The DNR form is a legal document and carries a lot of weight about the patients rights. If a Medical professional gets it wrong, they can be taken to court. So a Medical Professional should not be allowed to add a DNR to a medical record (which is a legal document) without anyone knowing that it is in place.

Bernard Allen ● 2406d

Bernard in normal circumstances of course the patient should decide re DNR if they are able but we are not in normal times the medical profession is better placed to understand the case of a patients survival, sad but true. We have to trust them, they don’t want to make this decision it must be heart breaking for them too.

Jayne Thorburn ● 2406d

Bernard might look on the bright side...In the old days, like on the Titanic, it was women and children first..Today it's whoever has the best chance of survival - so us blokes get a bit of a chance...whether or not we deserve that is another matter...

Stuart Kerr ● 2406d