Forum Topic

Queen's Speech

I think we should all stand up and clap for the Queen once she finishes her speech on Sunday. No doubt she will tell us all to keep calm and carry on!

Angus McPhail ● 2406d63 Comments

Looking at the UK virus numbers she will need to ask to calm. The number of deaths is still rising. Yesterday it was 570. Today it is already 680. So it will be higher by the end of today. Looking at what happened in Italy, given the date of the first case and point at which infection numbers started to level off (about 14 days after lock down). And compare this to the UK numbers and time since lock down- we’ve at about a week of increasing number of deaths each day. The queen will no doubt call on the nations fortitude. All good stuff. However what she should do is call out our government’s woeful efforts on using language didn’t initially take it seriously, not starting the lock down earlier, on not ordering sufficient tests and protection equipment, same on ventilators. Johnson and his team have made a royal mess of dealing with this right from the start.

Alan Clark ● 2406d

Yes the data is showing that it takes about 20 days from infection to death so we will likely be seeing the effects of the weekend before last when the UK behaved like it was a Bank Holiday towards the end of next week. We are not on a good trajectory here, we failed quickly on containment (as did Italy, Spain and France and now the US) and we have still not actually implemented a lockdown that is comparable with the worst-hit European countries. That is if the UK numbers are reliable. There is speculation that there is a lag between deaths in hospitals and reporting of the figures.

Paul Campbell ● 2406d

No point in moans and what ifs - we are where we are!  We have no option but to carry on and all of us do our very best to stay safe ourselves and make sure we are never putting anyone else at risk.    Meanwhile, we must hope that as fast as possible proper protection is issued to all those wonderful brave souls in the hospitals, the care community, civil servants, transport people etc etc.  We the heaving masses owe those selfless people a huge debt of gratitude.

Jennifer Selig ● 2406d

Strongly support Jennifer, although we must never forget whatever the situation the government of the day will be held to account at some point.

Vanessa Smith ● 2406d

And so they should be to avoid any mistakes if this happens again in the future so at the very least there must be a Public Inquiry

Paul Fisher ● 2406d

The queen will not be calling out anyone.  Nor should she, that's the job of politicians and journalists.

David McLoughlin ● 2406d

..and any criticism of the present government must also include their decade of running down the NHS and most other public provision and social support, which we now realise we so depend on.

Peter Evans ● 2406d

And that is the second, perhaps actually the more important, reason to roundly condemn this government and the policies its party have put in place. Shocking.

Alan Clark ● 2406d

Yet we are still allowing flights in from countries that aren't in lock down - eg the US.  And no checks.  What's the point of us all obeying the guidelines when anyone infected can come in and wander around in our supermarkets etc?

Claire Moran ● 2406d

Fair criticism but pretty much all countries seem to be as lax on ports of entry. But let’s not allow that issue to distract from the government’s really poor efforts. Two weeks ago Johnson talked up a massive increase in testing. Two days ago he says “testing is key”. But very little change in testing numbers from two weeks ago. Err. Deliver on your promise Boris. Two weeks ago. He is an utter failure and trying to bullshit his way out.

Alan Clark ● 2406d

'He is an utter failure'Almost all governments are struggling and, yes, failing. The French are making the same complaints we are about lack of testing and PPE and their health service is always held up as a model. I don't think that our government is handling it any worse than others.

Susan Kelly ● 2406d

Susan, the Government was told 3 years ago that in  the event of a major pandemic or health crisis that the NHS would have no chance of coping. This was after Operation Cygnus, a 3-day exercise byy the NHS to see how they would cope, When the results of the exercise were read by the Cabinet, they all shat big bricks, and decided that the report would not be made public for fear of causing a nationside paniic and uproar from the populous.The  Government has had time since then to ensure that at least all NHS and essential wworkers were kitted out with  PPE that worked. They have done nothing. Google Operation Cygnus for yourself.It is an outrage.

Roger Talbot ● 2406d

Really cannot see how any Government could be prepared for a pandemic, so you have empty buildings with thousand of beds and equipmentBy the time a pandemic is here all the equipment is out of date etc., etc.,

Janice Evans ● 2406d

Also even having funds in place it all takes time, and each pandemic would probably be different, this time the lungs are affected, next time it could be something else, it's unknown.

Janice Evans ● 2406d

.. you might well be right Janice.  The improved mark 2 version - covid 20 -  could well have wings and a penchant for some other part of the body...

Stuart Kerr ● 2406d

The Germans seem to have done pretty well, Janice.

Roger Talbot ● 2406d

Janice, in the past 28 years we've seen two coronavirus outbreaks which threatened to become pandemics. But the government gave no thought to the possibility of a third similar event, and failed to take notice of the conclusions of Exercise Cygnus in 2016. This showed that the NHS did not have sufficient surge capacity to cope with a flu pandemic (perceived to be the most likely threat at the time), that it would need thousands more intensive care beds, that doctors would have to start triaging patients, to attend to those with the best chance of survival, and that there was a significant shortage of protective equipment for front-line NHS staff, and insufficient mortuary capacity. The government sat on the report. Don't say it had no warning.

Robert Fish ● 2405d

"Their decade of running down the NHS" Paul - as I have commented on other threads expenditure on the NHS was ring-fenced in 2010 by the incoming Coalition Government and since then year after year expenditure has increased. Of course more could always have been spent.What has happened in the last decade is that the demands on the NHS have outstripped the resources provided: We are living longer and the elderly place more and, more complex demands on the NHS. Efficiency savings demanded by the Government have not been achieved.  We used to have "surge facilities" in the form of hospitals for service personnel designed to cope with a sudden influx of casualties from an unanticipated war. These were kitted out to deal will nuclear, chemically and biological warfare casualties. Then we had the "peace dividend" and most of these facilities were shut.

Cllr Sam Hearn ● 2405d

Robert, the NHS has been treating other patients from all over the world, this should have been taken into account sooner, not saying we should not help where we can but within reason so those here do not suffer as a consequence.

Janice Evans ● 2405d

Sure, Janice, the NHS is creaking and groaning under the burden of treating all those foreigners! Is the old xenophobic chestnut the best you can come up with to excuse the government's failings?

Robert Fish ● 2405d

Who, on this illustrious Forum, could have done any better ? So many experts in hindsight...As an aside perhaps the great and glorious of Chiswick would practice effective and real social distancing. At the moment it's rather shabby !

Loraine Pemberton ● 2405d

Whoa there. Don't do the "who here could do better" malarkey. This is not about comparing government under Johnson with me, or you. This about comparing his decisions, statements and efforts with other countries. To start with Johnson went out of his way to downplay the seriousness of this pandemic. This had two effects - his governments lack of preparations and a message the nation that its not serious. Then he and his idiots decided that herd immunity was the way ahead. No other country believed that was sensible, it was widely criticized and proved to be dumb thinking. Preparation and coordination of obtaining supplies for carers has been exceptionally poor - meaning hospital staff do not have protection.If you've seen pictures of hospitals in other countries the protection kit is very evident. The level of testing in Germany and South Korea has been very high. This shows that suitable preparation and coordination it is possible. But our government has not managed to sort this.The shabby physical distances is no doubt due to the poor messaging by our government at the start and actually all the way through. We have been asked to sensible if its terribly not too inconvenient. Places like France the people are told what to do and its clear that fines will issued if you do not heed directions. I'm sure no country has perfected distancing - the continued infection numbers in almost all countries shows that. But our inadequate government has not gone the right way about implementing anything so far.

Alan Clark ● 2405d

Robert, trust you to say something like that 😏

Janice Evans ● 2405d

Roger, they have a woman in charge.

Janice Evans ● 2405d

Not being sexist, just that they think different and indeed I would have not listen to "experts" before doing the right things.

Janice Evans ● 2405d

I would be a terrible leader.

Janice Evans ● 2405d

Just to play devils advocate, Sweden currently has a rate on infection per million population that's slightly below the UK (and massively below Spain) and a rate of death per million population that is again below the UK (37/million against 64/million) and massively below Spain (261/million).It may be a big if, but given the absence of stringent lockdown measures in Sweden compared to most of Europe, if the rate of infection and deaths in Sweden remains lower similar to or lower to the rest of Europe, are we going to admit that the lockdown wasn't effective ?.

Adam Beamish ● 2405d

The CMO in Sweden has judged that the geographic spread of their population (much lower density than UK) and the low rate of multi-generational family living meant that the virus transmission rate would be low enough to manage within the country’s ICU capacity. The best comparison for the success or otherwise of their policy is Norway which has locked down. New cases are falling in Norway while they are rising in Sweden. Every country will determine its own policy based on its unique characteristics: demographics (age), density, health, ICU capacity, testing capabilities etc. The US looks like it will have the least successful outcome and it remains to be seen if the UK will be right behind them or in the pack.

Paul Campbell ● 2405d

Janice, they had a woman (Theresa May), a chancellor (Philip Hammond) and Heaslth Secretary (Jeremy Hunt) 3 years ago.It says a lot for the lack of integrity on Hunt's part that he didn't threaten to resign and make public the report on Operation Cygna if he was told to go whistle for the money he needed.It's all a sick joke. £100-billion for HS2 (some of which will be paid into Conservative Party coffers) and provide consultancy appointments through the revolving doors for ex-Tory ministers and MPs. Boris Johnson's £30-billion for a bridge or tunnel to Northern Ireland from Scotland. And bugger-all for PPE to protect NHS staff and pay for more critical-care beds and ventilators for the rest of us.

Roger Talbot ● 2405d

Hi Roger, no one knew what was ahead, lots of things are done maybe for the wrong reasons,

Janice Evans ● 2405d

The pandemic was completely predictable. You obviously can’t have thousands of beds and staff waiting for a pandemic to happen but you have the structures  in place to call on resources quickly. Successive governments have failed to do proper planning but there has been the same party in power for  the last ten years so we should primarily be looking at them.And Janice, the NHS tourism debate has been debunked. It is a tiny problem - but to blame foreigners for the inadequacies of the NHS is simplistic and risible. Possibly the Queen will point out how much better the land of her forefathers (Germany) seems to be faring In comparison with the UK.

Stewart Jones ● 2405d

'I would be a terrible leader.'Well, there's something we can agree on then.

Vanessa Smith ● 2405d

Chiswick W4  HM The Queen was almost certainly politely commanded by government to deliver Her speech to the nation and Commonwealth. Her script will have been vetted first by some civil servant top-nob bod before She graciously performs on the box from within Her castle's sumptuous backdrop. It'll be the usual bland patronising platitudes we all love to hear Her witter away with in Her distinctive reassuring rounded vowels pursed-lipped Queen's English diction. Considering the speech has already been leaked or presented to the royalty disparaging media even before Her loyal subjects have had a look-in suggests this is wholly for the media to play with on our, Her Majesty's loyal subjects, behave. We await a cynical fawning media's headlines telling us all about what we will or won't have viewed and heard of Her Majesty The Queen's Coronavirus Covid-19 speech to the nation. A crowned differentiating queen discoursing about an indifferent crowned virus that will kill queens and commoners alike without any distinction as to who deserves to live.

Bobbie Carnegie ● 2405d

I watched “The Queen Mothers Blitz “ on Channel 5 last night.When Buckingham Palace was bombed she went straight out there to visit other bomb sites and mix with all the distraught people she could manage to get to.She was no longer someone too precious to be out there, she was one of them and it made a huge difference to the whole country’s morale.No doubt her daughter will also be doing what she can as she always has but given the circumstances, her age and the Dukes state of health they are now being “shielded” and she must stay indoors for 12 weeks.Since she always insists on writing her own speeches I’m looking forward to hearing what she has to say.

Rima Jones ● 2405d

Neverthelress, Bobbie, I'd sooner listen to the Queen than the evasive, dissembling Govt ministers supposedly "handling" this crisis. At least she knows that WE know the truth, even though the government treats us as idiots. Though they must now know that they stand a very good chance of being out on their arses if any of us is still alive after this nightmare.

Roger Talbot ● 2404d

Stewart re your comment "how much better the land of her forefathers (Germany) seems to be faring In comparison with the UK."  May I po9nt out that Germany uses both the state and private medical facilities.  Here the NHS doggedly insists on only using their own facilities.    Until it is really pushed and forced to accept help from the Private sector - and then only very, very slowly, each service having to be approved by numerous levels before finally and grudgingly using this untapped source of help.

Jennifer Selig ● 2404d

Jennifer, as I said the German system seems to have coped much better. The NHS uses private facilities in this country so your comment is wrong. The NHS suffers from  lack of support from the government and an incompetent Secretary of State and PM

Stewart Jones ● 2404d

Who does deserve to live, Bobbie?

Susan Kelly ● 2404d

Stewart you are getting as predictable as Robert.

Janice Evans ● 2404d

Pot calling the kettle back, Janice

Stewart Jones ● 2404d

Or black even

Stewart Jones ● 2404d

Janice, make a false racist comment and you are rightly held to account for it. Should we also dismiss all the NHS workers from around the world, like my wife for instance?

Carl Wynne ● 2404d

The point being where exactly did I ever mention foreigners, I had a friend who went to live in America and only return when she became ill and needed medical attention, I said we had been treating people from all over the World a lot being who return here when they become ill, but of course you and Robert would rather these things are never take into account.

Janice Evans ● 2404d

You're being disingenuous, Janice.  Indeed, you never mentioned the f-word. If you only had returning ex-pats in mind, you expressed it very badly. You should take more care in framing your knee-jerk responses.  Do you think that British citizens returning from abroad shouldn't be able to access the NHS? Or do you think they shouldn't be allowed into the country at all?  And do you really think that the additional demand from returnees is responsible for breaking the system?

Robert Fish ● 2404d

The problem with this is it's a four-minute speech and every word has been detailed in this morning's papers. 'The Queen will say this and then she will say that'.No point in listening at all.

Susan Kelly ● 2404d

Robert it's the same old things from you and the like if you don't want to see a problem you cry racist, sick.

Janice Evans ● 2404d

But you are

Carl Wynne ● 2404d

Well DON'T!  Your choice.By and large the lumbering Nat Health SERVICE loathes having to use any private facility - it's only very recently they been working with private companies and labs etc.  The NHSERVICE is supposed to help the public - for years it's been the other way round, we have been servicing them!  Our precious NHS cannot be touched it must be propped up.  Governments of all types have been terrified of dismantling this vast inefficient, ever expanding edifice.  Long ago it needed restructuring.  Hats off to all the excellent medics, nurses, carers etc struggling to work under ill-thought out excessive laymen management.  There's layer after layer of management it's a huge employer, most earning megga bucks.  No wonder the increasing amount of Government funding gets swallowed up by yet more management layers.    The people who should be in charge are the MEDICAL people, not all these pen-pushers!

Jennifer Selig ● 2404d

I wouldn't go so far as you, Carl. I merely suggested Janice's post was xenophobic, which it certainly appeared to be. She assures me it wasn't, although, given her history of posts, I'm not entirely convinced. I don't think it was racist, although she obviously sees "racist" as a terrible slur, and dishonestly tried to turn my comment into an accusation of racism to justify her own insulting response. What I fail to understand is why, if she's so upset at the idea that anyone might consider her a racist, she constantly uses language likely to provoke at least accusations of xenophobia. She does love sticking her head above the parapet!

Robert Fish ● 2404d

Carly is another Troll to ignore

Janice Evans ● 2404d

Robert you are a Troll, you deliberately twist my posts and always have, others are aware, go away as I have told you before,

Janice Evans ● 2404d

And if you are happy the NHS is abused, don't moan when there is a shortage.

Janice Evans ● 2404d

Agree Jennifer.

Janice Evans ● 2404d

I envy your blissful lack of self-awareness!

Robert Fish ● 2404d

🌱

Janice Evans ● 2404d

Well said, Jennifer.And you other guys, please stop squabbling and abusing each other. Show some respect, care and understanding. We're all going a bit crazy.Let's be thankful we're alive for the meaantime to have our opiniona without going to war.

Roger Talbot ● 2404d

Wasn't me your honour 😇

Janice Evans ● 2404d

Nothing racist in what Janice said. She is correct. If our NHS is so bad, why is it treated like the world health service?When my mother was dying, I sat at her bedside as a woman arrived straight from Gatwick with her suitcases. She spoke hardly a word of English and had to wait until family members arrived.Our NHS is incredible, and I can't praise them enough for the care and compassion they showed to my Mother. They do it for everyone, but should not be placed in that invidious position.

Lou Valdini ● 2403d

The abuse of non-UK citizens taking advantage of the NHS is minimal. Checks are made. Bills & charges are issued. I'm sure there are going to examples of abuse, but its trifling compared other abuses of the NHS.On the other hand the NHS is dependent on thousands of non-UK medical staff. Who the government also taxes an NHS surcharge of £640 pa (on top of PAYE & NI) for using the service they work for.So can we please not have this crass "blame the foreigner" thinking at this time.

Alan Clark ● 2403d

Janice, please don't mix up the rude Mr Wynne with the lovely lady who sang "You're So Vain".

Richard Greenhough ● 2403d

"It'll be the usual bland patronising platitudes we all love to hear Her witter away with in Her distinctive reassuring rounded vowels pursed-lipped Queen's English diction. Considering the speech has already been leaked or presented to the royalty disparaging media even before Her loyal subjects have had a look-in suggests this is wholly for the media to play with on our, Her Majesty's loyal subjects, behave. We await a cynical fawning media's headlines telling us all about what we will or won't have viewed and heard of Her Majesty The Queen's Coronavirus Covid-19 speech to the nation. A crowned differentiating queen discoursing about an indifferent crowned virus that will kill queens and commoners alike without any distinction as to who deserves to live."  The Queen has served the UK putting 'service above self' for over 60 years and she is a respected Diplomat. The Crown generates massive income to the UK's coffers and its costs us circa 65 pence per head, the last time I checked. The Crown Estates are efficiently run in terms of being profitable and eco friendly and also employs 1,000's of people.Sneering, sarcastic words at this time of crisis are wholly inappropriate.

Loraine Pemberton ● 2403d

The following Facebook post offers a fairly colourful yet restrained summary of the failings in dealing with Covid-19. It's not just a question of the government's lack of preparedness and inadequate funding of the NHS but also their criminal complacency, significant missteps and failure to convey adequately the seriousness of the situation to the public. https://www.facebook.com/155710354774360/posts/1141629379515781/?sfnsn=wiwspwa&d=w&vh=e&extid=fwSRpT8lUlNKtWT8&d=w&vh=e

Robert Fish ● 2403d

"..the land of her forefathers (Germany).."Most of us are at least partly Anglo-Saxon, so most of us have forefathers who came from Germany at some point in the past. In the Queen's case, Cerdic came over about 1500 years ago, and his descendants have a rich mixture of Norman, Welsh, Scottish and Danish blood in their veins.

Richard Greenhough ● 2403d