Forum Topic

Coronavirus

In my carriage on the tube today were a young couple (not obviously Chinese or Asian) wearing medical face masks. Seemed to make other travellers suspicious. Are they protecting against the coronavirus or trying to prevent infecting their fellow travellers?

Philip Coe ● 2450d95 Comments

My son lives in Tokyo where the wearing of masks is fairly common. I think this started after the flu epidemic following WWI. People use them as a polite way of trying not to spread germs if they have a cold. Current opinion is that they are not very effective.

Vivienne Cox ● 2450d

Nuevo Coronavirus Covid-19 is on the way. Best be prepared. Wear gloves too, And cover your eyes from this great aerosol visitation when very soon, surely, a formal announcement will confirm it is fully in our midst? As if we didn't know already when, of course, it already is. Philip - Didn't you see the post below titled 'The Tale of Little Missy Corona & The Masterful Master Covid?

Bobbie Carnegie ● 2450d

The other day on the Tube I saw a lady wearing a face mask, which she took off several times to cough and sneeze, sharing her germs with all those around her.

Lucy Chambers ● 2450d

Interesting article in Private Eye today.They point out that in the 'killer virus' SARS outbreaks in 2002 and 2004 a total of 4 people in the UK were infected, with no deaths.Yet boring old flu kills an average of 600 in the UK every year and 13000 in 2013.Of course, Coronavirus already has 9 cases in the UK (no deaths) and may end up being a real killer but in the meantime apparently face masks have sold out and supplies to dentists are rationed.Nobody bothers with face masks to protect against flu.

Guy Lambert ● 2450d

From what I'm hearing on the outside which is coming from within, the western media is being fooled by the CCP. Diversion to what they want you to see and know,it was all about keeping face and how we are dealing with it by building hospitals in days but now it could be changing in its media outlet because of the economy. With the economy starting to tank they are now slowly telling people outside china that all is good, we now have this under control and to get back to buying from these areas that are basically factory shops. They are telling through posters for people to now get back to work. Meanwhile, the main threat is being shut down in reporting I wonder now how the reporting we may get to see over the coming weeks shows this to be the case. Will we start getting that good feeling that it is getting better and we are steadily becoming open for business.  I guess the real issue is what happens if it is getting worse and not being contained, will we know.  What is the outcome, do they have people in their best interests or the economy? Time will no doubt tell What happened to Fang Bin and Chen Qiushi ?

Julian Pavey ● 2450d

GuyAbout 2.25% of people infected die from the virus, so based on the roughly 66 million people in the UK, about 1.5 million people might die in the UK if it becomes a pandemic.

Christopher Gillie ● 2449d

My wife is a doctor and she says that face masks are worse than useless, they might be effective for twenty minutes but not after that; however, face mask manufacturers have enjoyed a bonanza from the threat of coronavirus.

Richard Bradford ● 2449d

There is a major shortage of facemasks.However the winner of the 2019 Ignobel Prize came up with one solution:PUBLIC HEALTH PRIZE: Elena N. Bodnar, Raphael C. Lee, and Sandra Marijan of Chicago, Illinois, USA, for inventing a brassiere that, in an emergency, can be quickly converted into a pair of protective face masks, one for the brassiere wearer and one to be given to some needy bystander.REFERENCE: U.S. patent # 7255627, granted August 14, 2007 for a “Garment Device Convertible to One or More Facemasks.” God bless Dr Bodnar

James Roy ● 2449d

'About 2.25% of people infected die from the virus, so based on the roughly 66 million people in the UK, about 1.5 million people might die in the UK if it becomes a pandemic.'That assumes that everyone will catch it, which they won't.

Susan Kelly ● 2448d

I do not think panic helps but it would be good to hear how it is spreading throughout the world- nothing has been mentioned for quite some time- except the poor people stuck on that cruise ship- I think we should be told.The media (not the tabloids) should inform the public truthfully.

Helen Bamberger ● 2448d

I said might - thats the top number. If even 10% of the population get infected it is still a horiffic number, not the few hundred Guy was talking about.

Christopher Gillie ● 2448d

This video gives a balanced explanation of how and why this virus has emerged in China.Warning :it is graphic both in language and in how dogs and animals generally are treated.The China they DON'T want you to SEE!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbHxeOQA1Mc

Ben Gemmingen ● 2448d

Nobody denies that many people 'could' be infected and die.I was just reflecting some facts about previous killer viruses which caused great panic but zero UK deaths, and comparing to flu which kills hundreds every year, sometimes many thousands, but nobody ever panics about.SARS 'terrified the world' in 2003 and killed slightly more people worldwide than die of flu every year in the UKhttps://www.businessinsider.com/deadly-sars-virus-history-2003-in-photos-2020-2?r=US&IR=T

Guy Lambert ● 2448d

Bats or Lab job?

Michael Brown ● 2437d

Wondering.

Janice Evans ● 2437d

Are you thinking like myxomatosis or Lab Job.

Janice Evans ● 2437d

Laboratory leak. Then the question is: Intentionally or Unintentionally?

Michael Brown ● 2437d

I was thinking something given to wildlife that has spread to humans unintentionally.

Janice Evans ● 2437d

There were earlier questions of it having escaped a lab.  Complacency in case of panic instead of caution is also worrying as the OP comments because it may mutate.https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/03/four-lessons-the-spanish-flu-can-teach-us-about-coronavirus

Philippa Bond ● 2437d

Purrrrrlease, enough of this conspiracy, Micky boy Brown is frothing at the mouth and if not careful will need to neck a corona beer in a bottle at closing time which is not a good idea, so let's stop this talk. Look, 90k have been tested positive and 3k have died, mostly in Wuhan, China. Yes, if I was elderly I should be concerned but otherwise calm down, a yearly flu which sadly will kill. I think like Mikey boy the press have created this frenzy to cause people to panic. Now I went to wait rose last night and shelves were well stocked, so no need to panic buy. Have a good day all be safe.

James Smith-Jones ● 2437d

I just hope the authorities and the media will tell us the numbers of people who have recovered with the same alacrity that they are reporting the rise in 'infected' numbers.

Colin Jordan ● 2437d

It's obvious that hundreds of thousands of people in UK are going to be hospitalised in the coming months. Maybe we've got until May/June.Boris promised loads of new hospitals to get elected - maybe he could start now by adding extra beds by May/June rather then sit on his hands (which have been washed) doing nothing.BUT....... I am sure Dominic Cummings has gamed this all out.... Mostly old people will die. Current numbers are 3.5% deaths from confirmed cases in China. 80% of us will get it and that would mean c.2million extra deaths (of mainly oldies who get ill anyway and have dementia). This will help relieve financial pressure on social care later - so do nothing and use money to revive UK economy when it's over.

Richard Potts ● 2437d

"... I am sure Dominic Cummings has gamed this all out....Mostly old people will die." I guess he thinks we are now safe from the threat of a third EU referendum then. ;-)

Richard Greenhough ● 2437d

Put it like that and an intentional Lab leak looks favourite whatever Jimmy Jones AKA Stephanie says.

Michael Brown ● 2437d

Well China did try only one child per family to slow down their population growth - which did to an extent.  That doesn't seem to be happening here.

Philippa Bond ● 2437d

Mikey boy, please can you enlighten us "idiots" why or who would "accidentally" release this virus.

James Smith-Jones ● 2436d

Met potential client today who happily said child's school had  a pupil diagnosed with corona.  WHY DIDN'T SHE TELL ME AND WE COULD HAVE HAD A PHONE CALL!!!

Claire Moran ● 2436d

That is the problem with this softly softly approach.  People are too wound up with business as usual and that creates a lack of consideration for anyone else.Funny how we were able to tell people on here to take care with catching sneezes and coughs and washing our hands before there was much real official info.

Philippa Bond ● 2436d

'India limits medicine exports after supplies hit by coronavirus. The coronavirus outbreak has led India to restrict the export of dozens of drugs including paracetamol and various antibiotics, leading to fears of a global shortage of essential medicines.'https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/04/india-limits-medicine-exports-coronavirus-paracetamol-antibiotics

Ben Gemmingen ● 2436d

India’s pharmaceutical companies source about 70% of their ingredients from Chinese factories, many of which have been shut for weeks owing to the coronavirus outbreak. The closure of airports in China has also impeded supplies reaching India.That's why Governments shouldn't put all their eggs in one basket.So the likes of the USA and UK governments should have diversified, and used more than one source of supply.

Bernard Allen ● 2436d

I hope it isn't another case of always looking for things on the cheap.  As you say there do need to be other considerations.

Philippa Bond ● 2433d

Can anyone tell me WHY people are stocking up on toilet rolls? I still don't 'get it'. It's all gone a bit crazy, flu is much more common and kills alot more people.

Juliet Hogg ● 2433d

No idea, I was shopping in Watford Today, mostly soup, tinned stuff going but sugar completely sold out.

Janice Evans ● 2433d

Its all gone a bit bonkers, I was shopping near Uxbridge yesterday, and the shop was fully stocked up on with every thing you knead, pack full of toilet rolls and the necessary household items.The only thing, they were very light on was hand wash, but I thought you were meant to be using soap? and there was a load of that.

Bernard Allen ● 2433d

It is twice as infectious as normal flu. 10% to 20% of cases lead to acute respiratory illness and the need to be placed on a ventilator in an intensive care unit. 60% infection rate is likely. We are going to run out of beds in ICUs quickly. In Italy they are considering age restrictions on people admitted to ICU to save the healthiest. It is extremely serious and there is a high probability that our health care system faces collapse.Why this results in panic buying loo roll I don’t know.

Paul Campbell ● 2433d

Are the elderly deciding to stay at home so stocking up, if they have no need to go out they can easily do that.

Janice Evans ● 2432d

There seems to have been an upsurge in old people driving huge, wheeled shopping bags rather badly. So I'm guessing they're stocking up.

Susan Kelly ● 2432d

Oh well.

Philippa Bond ● 2432d

with loo rolls?  They are bulky and can be difficult to carry.  Perhaps we should be practising how to use less?I know there are videos on the internet of how to use only one piece to clean your bum.  I wouldn't recommend it.  Novices though sometimes pull loads off at a time and then make use of it badly.When doing the zero waste challenge there were people using rags.  I suppose it is no different from nappies but that was a step too far for me - but if needs must.

Philippa Bond ● 2432d

Message for Paul Campbell, can you please tell me of your qualifications to make such assertions?

Jeffrey Cope ● 2432d

Bidet. Surely every home in Chiswick has at least two?

Ken Munn ● 2432d

Are you asking all of the complacent people dismissing the seriousness of Coronavirus for their qualifications Jeffrey? I do have access to expertise that I do not wish to reveal on here but I am only stating these numbers now because they are widely available. Do some research and see what the experts are saying if you don’t wish to believe me. People fixated on the relatively benign fatality rate are not considering the rate of transmission, the exponential curve for cases and the seriousness of the conditions affixing to a small but significant percentage of those infected. The problem is not the fatality rate, it is the shortage of beds and ventilation equipment to cope with the epidemic. Ask yourself why 16m people are in quarantine in Italy with punishments of up to three months in prison for transgressors. Ask yourself why tens of millions of people in one city in China are still under house arrest. Ask yourself why it will be any different here.

Paul Campbell ● 2432d

It seems that the real variables are an incubation period of up to 14 days and the fact that it is possible to have it so mildly that the carrier may not know that they are infectious. Thus, there are undoubtedly thousands of people out and about in the UK who are infected and don't (yet/if ever) know it. All the time they mix with others they may pass it on. Therefore there is an increasing pool of unaware carriers. Do some basic sums. If every unaware carrier infects one other person a day, then the pool of 'unawares' doubles daily: Day one 1Day two 2Day three 4Day four 8Day five 16Day six 32Day seven 64Day eight 128Day nine 256Day ten 512Day eleven 1024Day twelve 2048Day thirteen 4096Day fourteen 8192So, one 'unaware' could be responsible for infecting 8,000 others within the 14 day incubation period. That's why 'house arrest' is effective. It stifles the growth of unaware carriers.Critical care: Coronavirus: England only has 15 beds for worst respiratory casesNHS says system will struggle if more than 28 patients need artificial lung treatmenthttps://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/feb/27/coronavirus-england-only-has-15-beds-for-worst-respiratory-cases

Ken Munn ● 2432d

Yes Paul, I must agree.

Juliet Hogg ● 2432d

Perhaps, given the risk you state, it would be better if you do not emerge from your home for some time. We would then all be sure to be able to enjoy your future arguments.

Jeffrey Cope ● 2432d

Mr.Campbell, what is the expertise you have access to?  I am perfectly willing to accept you arguments if you can validate them,For the moment your assertions are just uncooberated scaremongering

Jeffrey Cope ● 2432d

Sorry, I forgot Ken, my offer of a £10 bet of 5/3/20 still stands. Are you up for it?

Jeffrey Cope ● 2432d

If it could be contained, it would have been contained when only half a dozen people had it. We're all doomed.

Michael Brown ● 2432d

Jeffrey, I have many jobs but one that I am thankful not to have is working as your private secretary.

Paul Campbell ● 2432d

When only 6 people had it, no one knew what it was.

Ken Munn ● 2432d

https://www.mylondon.news/news/health/london-coronavirus-exact-number-cases-17885270There are apparently 3 cases in LB Hounslow...

Loraine Pemberton ● 2432d

Don't they have those loos which lift the lid for you in greeting when you go into the room and then wash your bum for you when you've finished?

Philippa Bond ● 2431d

Peoples' Health -v- Business As Usual 

Philippa Bond ● 2431d

Global cases of COVID-19https://www.gisaid.org/epiflu-applications/global-cases-covid-19/

Ben Gemmingen ● 2431d

It kills old people; and it's arrived in LBH. RIP Forumers.

Michael Brown ● 2431d

Hm. if it attacks the elerly and/or those with weird brain arrangements, be afraid, Mr.Brown, be very afraid - indeed.

Claire Moran ● 2431d

I read an excellent article a while ago in the London Review about the correlation between ageing and increasing prevalence of people dealing with chronic pain in western societies leading to general grumpiness and resulting in voting for Trump, Brexit, Johnson and his motley crue of wide-eyed devotees etc. Given that Coronavirus likes old people with co-morbidity issues one can expect a sharp reduction in the demographic that likes to vote for these things.

Paul Campbell ● 2431d

The famous Toto in Japan.

Ken Munn ● 2431d

I don,t consider myself old but I find your comment crass which just about sums you up. You should be a bit more sensitive man. There are some of our older readers who are rightly worried about this potentially fatal virus and you come out with such a stupid comment. Honestly, have some decency and appologise.

James Smith-Jones ● 2431d

Sorry my post is directed to M Brown

James Smith-Jones ● 2431d

Yes, but Michael Brown is right that the elderly are at far greater risk of succumbing to this virus together with those with underlying health conditions - diabetes, heart problems and asthma, COPD etc.  There's no point pretending it isn't happening.  Better to be realistic and make sure you are organised as best you can and ready to stay indoors for a fortnight - and keep on washing your hands properly with soap and not just rinsing them for a few seconds under the tap.  And wiping down surfaces.  That self-protection will help protect us all by slowing its progress.

Philippa Bond ● 2431d

no one is pretending it isn't happening, but would you tell any of your elderly family members to RIP when you next see them? ummmm don't think so.

James Smith-Jones ● 2431d

Actually the elderly perhaps aren't that more vulnerable to catching it - it seems to be extremely easy for everyone to do that and many young seem to not really notice having it/having had it - but more vulnerable to all the complications.The reluctance that we have to talk about death causes a lot of problems.  Complacency will make events worse.It was interesting this morning to hear Michael Rosen who is 73 and a lady who I didn't recognise discussing the realisation that they were both considered elderly and in this group.  Michael Rosen isn't ready to be in this group as he obviously feels he has much more to do while she is much more resigned to the fact that she has already had a long life. You may as well be pragmatic about it.

Philippa Bond ● 2431d

Stephanie, don't leave it too late..

Michael Brown ● 2430d

With France just releasing its numbers a big jump in numbers like Italy is starting to to show that chain of events from italy onwards. I wonder how long before euro trains bringing people from one effected capital to another in a closed space are put on hold. Slovenia has closed its border now and i expect a few others to do the same.I think we maybe looking towards the end of next week when we start to see hard measures put in place.

Julian Pavey ● 2430d

before we go into armageddon meltdown  and all start shooting our neighbours, the Korean cases have declined from 851 per day at peak, to 165 latest.  in 9 days.When we reach our peak hopefully there will be a continued downward and rapid trend.

James Roy ● 2430d

Does not exactly work like that. Seems it behaves in various ways. Italy compared to others is decribed as a time bomb explosion that has not been seen elsewhere. That taking  China has been truefull which i very much doubt to be the case. Italy has 3k more than Korea and is getting no better by the day.

Julian Pavey ● 2430d

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/south-korea/

James Roy ● 2430d

I know the website James. Im not sure the vunerable are concerned with what happens number wise after the storm

Julian Pavey ● 2430d

Horrifying. Follow this Twitter thread.https://twitter.com/jasonvanschoor/status/1237142891077697538?s=12

Ken Munn ● 2430d

....yeah ,horrifying.It's not about the virus itself,it's about the medical services being overwhelmed.I'm not sure how ,as an individual or a state ,you can prepare for this.

Ben Gemmingen ● 2430d

Amazing! Such immense kindness that China has offered to donate Italy massive amounts of medical equipment to assist in the fight against 'the virus'. One suspects sadly our UK's NHS would be discouraged to accept similar help which we all know, with urgent preparedness, is known to be required. No doubt the USA would be stridently breathing down our government's neck, as with 5G, not to be friends with communist China. Shouldn't the EU be doing what China is offering? Shows perhaps the EU is incapable in the face of this pandemic. https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/china-offers-medical-aid-to-italy-to-fight-coronavirus-chinese-foreign-minister

Bobbie Carnegie ● 2430d

We have known for years that our services would suffer under pressure of an epidemic, no Country is fully prepared for an outbreak like this.

Janice Evans ● 2430d

Actually Paul think they would vote for the ones most likely to look after them so cannot agree with that.

Janice Evans ● 2430d

I think you've missed my point. Fed-up and elderly people with chronic pain have voted for Trump, Brexit and Johnson. After the coronavirus epidemic there will not be as many of them to vote for those things regardless of why they like to vote for them because lots of them will be dead.

Paul Campbell ● 2430d

Agreed. It would have helped if we hadn't been constantly cutting and running down our services.  We have a lot of NHS staff who will be vulnerable just to start off with since they are understaffed and consequently overworked and working longer hours BEFORE any crisis like this.  People have chosen in the past to go to Italy because of their health services.Apparently Trump disbanded the US department for dealing with pandemics two years ago and is still working on his wall.

Philippa Bond ● 2430d

The needs of increasing population has not been addressed for a long time.

Janice Evans ● 2430d

Dread the day when and if it comes that I cannot cook as do like fresh food.

Janice Evans ● 2430d

Put that on the wrong thread.

Janice Evans ● 2430d

There are people on this forum who have been arguing for some time that the solution to climate change is a reduced world population. They must be pleased to get what they have wished for.

Paul Campbell ● 2430d

Waitrose's shelves stacked? Must mean not many folks buy there. I wonder why?

Bobbie Carnegie ● 2430d

Get perspective.The total deaths in this epidemic worldwide, to date is roughly equal to one days casualties on the US roads.I remember from my dad (now regrettably no longer with us, but if he had been he would have been 120,) the descriptions of smallpox epidemics.  Now compared with smallpox cornoavirus is an extreme amateur.And with TB 41,000 deaths per day.But nevertheless she who must be obeyed is insisting that we don't use public transport.Ho hum

James Roy ● 2430d

This is the beginning.Merkel should get perspective as well predicting that up to 58 million Germans will contract Coronavirus. Epidemiologists predicting that 10% to 20% of infections will develop into acute respiratory illness should get a grip. The Italians should get a grip where the fatality rate for over 80s who contract it is 22%.Or we just shouldn't care because more people died in the olden days and at least it isn't the bubonic plague?Let's put this on ice and see how the Dunkirk spirit is working for us in 3 weeks.

Paul Campbell ● 2429d

Agreed.See in 3 weeks timeHasta la vista

James Roy ● 2429d

That's a bit rich seeing as China is wholly responsible for this !

Ben Gemmingen ● 2429d

My previous post was in response to Bobbie Carnegie's'Amazing! Such immense kindness that China has offered to donate Italy massive amounts of medical equipment to assist in the fight against 'the virus'.

Ben Gemmingen ● 2429d

Do we know all the facts yet, it started we think in China but what about these other isolated cases.

Janice Evans ● 2429d

Paul, no one wants to see anyone dying of anything, my point was thatwe never prepared ourselves for the fast increase in population.

Janice Evans ● 2429d

i wasn’t referring to you. Others have argued that a decline in the world population would be a good thing. Anyway the voters must think that this government has been doing a great job for the past ten years to have given them such a big majority in the last election. Massive vote of confidence.

Paul Campbell ● 2429d

and that is just this time.

Philippa Bond ● 2429d

Exactly !On this international open source site ,you can track this and previous viruses ie Sars.https://nextstrain.org/ncovIt is the CCP,the PRC.China is a fascist state. 

Ben Gemmingen ● 2429d

Reassuring:- https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/coronavirus-grim-advice-italian-doctors-21679627

Claire Moran ● 2429d

It seems that the vast majority of people dying from this disease are elderly people who weren't far off death anyway. If this is the case (and I'm not sure if it is), wouldn't it be better if we just carried on as normal, as I fear that all the media hype, market crashes and closures of everything will have a worse affect on society than the disease itself.

Michael Brown ● 2427d

morituri te salutamus

James Roy ● 2427d

after putting up a fight...https://apple.news/AIbR0Yy0VTkKrXgmuVE8Vfg

Philippa Bond ● 2427d