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Dennis Brogan, "Brexit will prove to be economically beneficial due to reclamation of fishing rights , new trade deals etc . Maybe normal people who don't earn over £40,000 a year , and do not march to save the whales and haven't got a Bono album should be excluded from voting"Dennis can you give a bit more detail of how exactly Brexit will benefit us all due to the reclamation of fishing rights? If you are referring to quotas in UK waters that have been purchased by EU trawlers then presumably under British contract law we would have to buy them back at their full market value. Isn't it likely that any foreign owned ships or indeed British owned ships will want to land their catch at ports within the EU to avoid the tariffs that will arise from a hard Brexit?Also what happens to our two biggest fishing ports (also the EU's two biggest) Peterhead and Fraserburgh? They currently survive mainly due to EU regional funding rather than economic viability. As Andrea Leadsom has made very clear there will be no subsidies so what happens to them if their funding is withdrawn and the amount of fish caught falls?Also won't free trade deals with countries with far more sea and far more fish e.g. Canada mean that our domestic market will have to open up much more to imported fish?With regard to the benefits of free trade deals compensating for the across the board raising of tariffs on our goods, could you give us some specific examples of arrangements that could be put in place to compensate for the massively negative impact of this? As the US has elected an avowedly protectionist president who has just ripped up a trade agreement with friendly Pacific countries that took years to negotiate, we can safely assume there will be no progress made there. The only other potential trading partners big enough to make a difference would be India and China. We know from Theresa May's recent visit to India what a free trade deal would broadly look like between us and them - they would want more visas for Indians and greater access to our market for their manufactured goods, we would want greater access to their market for financial services. The deal with China would look pretty similar.Does it not concern you that this would further decimate our domestic manufacturing base who would already be reeling from higher tariffs due to Brexit? Don't you think it would be a bad idea to make our economy even more dependent on London based financial services? How would you propose free trade deals with countries with much greater manufacturing bases than ours could possibly be framed in a way that would benefit our domestic manufacturing industries?

Francis Rowe ● 2718d

TPH > "So can someone remind me - what were the economic benefits of Brexit supposed to be?"That is an interesting question.Most people will be familiar with the infamous "£350m a week" that we gain by not having to contribute to the EU budget. Apart from that, the Leave campaign largely avoided economic arguments and focussed instead on sovereignty and immigration. They had no choice but to do that, and waved it away as 'Project Fear'. Why? Because the vast majority of economists (including the Treasury, the LSE, the OECD and the NIESR) determined that the economic effect of Brexit will be negative. There are a very small number who predicted a more or less neutral economic outcome (e.g. the IEA). There is only one body that I am aware of that argued for any substantial economic benefit - the Economists for Brexit (EfB).So in answer to your question, I offer the EfB analysis which you can read here:https://static1.squarespace.com/static/570a10a460b5e93378a26ac5/t/5722f8f6a3360ce7508c2acd/1461909779956/Economists+for+Brexit+-+The+Economy+after+Brexit.pdfNow we have the OBR forecasting that the economic effect attributable to Brexit over the next five years will be negative to the tune of £58.7bn. There are some who are calling their forecasts "gloomy". I am waiting for them to give it a pithy name such as 'Project Doubt'. However, as I write, the economists at Morgan Stanley have released a note saying that the forecasts are too optimistic! My guess is that the IFS debrief of the Autumn Statement will say something similar.

John Whitworth ● 2722d

As Alan said 'Don't succumb to negative thinking. Be confident and determined'Boy am I trying!!!  I was very torn initially with my vote. However I opted to remain because there was no clear path or plan for us to leave the EU. The nation is now reeling from the instant consequences of its decision to leave. The consequences so far are negative and will be irreversible. Fact, Prices are increasing dramatically in every sector and will continue to do so. The changes we are seeing will be difficult to rectify. As I have said before this limboland of the magical and mythical post Brexit glories will take years to come to fruition. In the meantime our economy and quality of life is stagnating. I truly want to stay positive but it is hard given the daily showering of doom and gloom portrayed in the media. Several people have asked on the forum for examples of good things that have thus far come out of Brexit. I know Rome wasn't built in a day. I also know there is no going back. But I would like some hope, something to cling on to.  The reason I want hope and to remain positive is not for me or my generation as I don't believe we will benefit from the changes. However I want hope for my children and theirs. Please can we start a list of positive changes as an when they occur.  The changes in the here and now not in fairytale future.  However small ....The power of positivity may just help us climb out of the hole we now find ourselves inList of positive things that have happen since the nation voted leave :1.

Sean Wales ● 2722d

Jsmes, what you have written is utterly, uttery wrong. We have a large diary industry, latest govnt statistics showed that we have a positive trade balance in butter and cream (i.e we export more than import) but a deficit in butter and cheese. THe latter is solely down to customer choice and preference. The reason diary farmers struggle is that the supermarkets that are monopoly buyers use miulk as a loss leader and sell it close to cost, scr*wing diary farmes in the process.THe whole point of the CAP (which has many flaws) is to make EUrope more self sufficent in food and preserve farmland. THe world population is going to add another 2 billion over the next 20 years, do you think it makes sense ot be importing more food from outside EUrope (as the brexiters suggest) from politically and environmentally fragile countries). SO how is leaving the EU and removing ALL farm subsidies going to help farmers... really, how? Leave campaign was all about magically cheaper food from outside the EU, which actually often impoverishes local communities and destroys all fragile ecosystems not suited to intensive agricutlure.CAP has nothing to do with diary or beef prices. In fact the EU restricts imports of beef from NZ and Argentina which protects our own beef producers. Pos EU we will no doubt continue to impose quotas.Overall economic growth actually ACCELERATED in Q2 before the vote and is now slowing. Business investmetn is slowing sharply as busineses do not know what the conditions for UK trade will be in a few yaers.You may have anticipated 'a tough few years' though its a shame the politicians selling brexit didnt share that reality with the wider public. And then what, who will these magical trade deals be with, and more to the poitn selling what??? Our leading service and manufacturing industries are geared to serve the 500 million wealthy consumers on our door step. Nissan has plants in N and S America Africa, all over Asia. Thy build here to sell to Europe.

Paul Green ● 2722d