Forum Topic

When is a crime not a crime?

Last week I was walking home with my daughter and we cut through the stretch of Acton Lane that passes by the Stag Pub and Kitchen Network takeaway.All of a sudden 4 men on two motorized scooters, whizzed by us, jumped off and began attacking a white car with clubs. They were smashing the car and attempting to club the driver who was frantically trying to reverse out of Berrymede Road (which he did, knocking over a young tree), eventually driving off. A fifth helmeted delivery driver ran out of the Kitchen Network and joined in with "his friends". Smashing the careening car.My young daughter was distraught, as it was very violent and scary, and in fact I contemplated trying to capture a license plate on my phone but it was so intense I was scared I might be seen and turned on so I walked her back away from the scene (there were others looking out of local shops at what was going on).Afterwards, I reported the incident to the police online, with as much detail as I could.However to my disappointment I got a response the next day saying that the incident was not considered a crime and so would not be recorded.Given the extreme level of violence (my daughter now keeps asking me if she's safe), I am angry that this is dismissed and presumably not recorded in any official figures. While no-one was killed, surely attacking people (presumably thus is a gang in gang fight) should not be tolerated and normalised? What kind of message does this send? Am I wrong?

Tim Mackinnon ● 11d16 Comments

If they all have fake ID don't see how the police can deal with them.

Janice Evans ● 1d

Home Office Crime Recording Rules which set out when a crime should be recorded. A victim, or person reasonably assumed to be acting on behalf of the victim to report the crime needs to repot the crime in order for it to be recorded as a crime. Am example, you see someone knocking down your neighbours garden wall. Are they committing criminal damage or are they helping out your neighbor demolish the wall?

Peter Johnson ● 1d

Anita is right the person recorded as the delivery driver is not necessarily the person who delivers the order. The ID is sold or lent to someone else,Im guessing often an illegal immigrant. I still think it is worth writing to a senior police officer to ask why this is not recorded as a crime.

David Turner ● 1d

Even if they did share the information the rider registered with the delivery company may not be the actual one riding the bike. There is an active trade in sub-letting these registrations. You have to have some sympathy with the police if they actually did fully investigate this because they probably would spend a lot of time getting nowhere.

Anita Blake ● 3d

The delivery riders are not employed by the takeaway. They get their orders through online delivery platforms like Uber Eats or Deliveroo. Whether these companies would share the information with the police about drivers who picked up in the area is an interesting question.

Mark Evans ● 5d

That would involve some police work Jim,so very unlikely to happen.

Keith Iddon ● 6d

Has anyone contacted the "Kitchen Takeaway" to check whether they witnessed the incident of have a record of the "5th" individual involved?

Jim Lawes ● 6d

You are probably right but the police would probably only do this if there was some prospect of a prosecution.Tim might get further explanation by contact the local Safer Neighbourhood team. They used to have direct emails but these seem to have been withdrawn. Now there is a contact form:https://www.met.police.uk/area/your-area/met/ealing/southfield/contact-us/crime-mapThey may not be able to say much if there is a related investigation but they should be able to offer some reassurance that this sort of thing is on their radar.

Mark Evans ● 6d

Surely a ‘crime’ can take place, be witnessed, recorded and pursued without needing confirmation from ‘the victim’.

Peter Evans ● 7d

From my limited understanding in this matter this should be recorded but not as a crime until the victim comes forward to confirm a crime has occurred. For a couple of reason including to prevent duplication of crimes being reported.

Peter Johnson ● 8d

Very reassuring thank you.

Janice Evans ● 8d

Sorry but I had the most positive experience with Met Police last Friday evening when a person was trying to enter my property aggressively.  They were here within 15 minutes and the Constable couldn't have been more helpful and sympathetic. Truly brilliant 👏

Juliet Hogg ● 8d

Tim, think it was wise not to get involved by taking photos especially as you had your daughter with you sometimes as much as we would like to help always think about those with you and their safety first.

Janice Evans ● 10d

Firstly, very sorry to hear what happened. I've been going up and down that stretch of road for decades and never witnessed anything untowards so you were unlucky. That will of course be little or no comfort after such a distressing experience.As for the police not classifying it as a crime, that is something that is probably out of their hands if a victim hasn't come forward to make a complaint. Flare ups between delivery drivers is not uncommon where they congregate on Acton High Street and this could be overspill from that.You may be aware of the murder that took place not too far away on Birkbeck Road so I'd assume that although nobody is going to be charged, the police probably did take a look at this to ensure that it wasn't related to any potential gang turf war. They aren't going to tell us so we'll probably never know for sure.

Mark Evans ● 11d

That's awful to hear.Presumably the incident happened close to Halina's Shop and I walk that way often.Couldn't the "5th person" be identified from records held at that Kitchen Takeaway place?

Jim Lawes ● 11d

No Tim, you are not wrong. It is a few years ago but we had very clear CCTV of someone walking into our church with an empty bag and then walking out with a full bag. When we next checked some speakers, a penny coin jar and some candles had been stolen and the door to the vestry had been forced open. Fortunately, there was nothing in the vestry worthy of stealing. We of course reported this to the police and their response was that should we see the individual again on CCTV please call them while he was on the premises. It beggars belief.

N V Brooks ● 11d